Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by sportnik:
If accuracy, brains, leadership & touch are so easily taught, we should just get Lance's bust ready for the Hall of Fame. We can place it right next to Ryan Leaf, Jeff George & Michale Vick.

For the 3rd time, those things aren't easily taught, but they can be taught.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by sportnik:
If accuracy, brains, leadership & touch are so easily taught, we should just get Lance's bust ready for the Hall of Fame. We can place it right next to Ryan Leaf, Jeff George & Michale Vick.

For the 3rd time, those things aren't easily taught, but they can be taught.

Crazy to think someone with sense would put Lance's reputation in the category of the aforementioned QB's. It's as if someone's opinion is more important that real life…

Originally posted by frenchmov:
what traits did he have that you can't teach? typically you can't "teach" having the arm Fields has, or the speed, etc. you CAN teach quarterbacks how to navigate the pocket better, how to throw with touch, how to use your eyes. Now i'm not saying teaching those things are easy or that every QB can learn it, but it can (and has) been taught.

If I remember we spent a good deal of time teaching Steve Young some things before he started

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Mac and Cheese vs. One Play Trey

1 play lol . You're too much

Not my phrase. They called him that on GMFB.

no it was marcellus wiley on fs1

Him too. I've heard it a lot actually including here. Kind of silly.

Originally posted by sportnik:
If accuracy, brains, leadership & touch are so easily taught, we should just get Lance's bust ready for the Hall of Fame. We can place it right next to Ryan Leaf, Jeff George & Michale Vick.

Who is Michale?

Originally posted by sportnik:
If accuracy, brains, leadership & touch are so easily taught, we should just get Lance's bust ready for the Hall of Fame. We can place it right next to Ryan Leaf, Jeff George & Michale Vick.

False equivalence, for several reasons.

First, Ryan Leaf had zero dedication.

Second, we can counter your Jeff George and Mike Vick with Steve Young.Young had elite coaching and elite work ethic. George and Vick didn't. Trey does.

Third, Trey has thrown a total of 445 passes in his entire life, including high school. He is very, very inexperienced. The fact that he's where he is given his complete lack of experience is remarkable. There is no way to know if he'll make the transition to a complete QB, but everything that is there when people DO make that transition is also here for him.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by sportnik:
If accuracy, brains, leadership & touch are so easily taught, we should just get Lance's bust ready for the Hall of Fame. We can place it right next to Ryan Leaf, Jeff George & Michale Vick.

False equivalence, for several reasons.

First, Ryan Leaf had zero dedication.

Second, we can counter your Jeff George and Mike Vick with Steve Young.Young had elite coaching and elite work ethic. George and Vick didn't. Trey does.

Third, Trey has thrown a total of 445 passes in his entire life, including high school. He is very, very inexperienced. The fact that he's where he is given his complete lack of experience is remarkable. There is no way to know if he'll make the transition to a complete QB, but everything that is there when people DO make that transition is also here for him.

Well it's also a bad comparison because Vick was really good. He would've been a HOF if he didn't go to prison.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Mac did nothing to earn that extra second. He was at a stand still and had 3 seconds. Trey was at a stand still and had 2 seconds. If the roles were reversed, Mac doesn't get that throw off. You act like Mac was scrambling around the pocket to buy more time. I counted 3 seconds before Mac even had to move. Trey didn't have that time.

Again, you're missing the point. Nobody gives a f**k about the time they had to throw. The point of the clip is to highlight pocket presence. One guy reacted to the rush and the other didn't.

Pocket presence.

LOL. This Fantasy and Madden generation can only see H/W/S over anything else. So much of the QB position is so instinctual and nuanced, this idea you can just teach an athlete all these things is comical. You can improve but overall, so much of this comes down to you either having it or you don't.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Mac did nothing to earn that extra second. He was at a stand still and had 3 seconds. Trey was at a stand still and had 2 seconds. If the roles were reversed, Mac doesn't get that throw off. You act like Mac was scrambling around the pocket to buy more time. I counted 3 seconds before Mac even had to move. Trey didn't have that time.

Again, you're missing the point. Nobody gives a f**k about the time they had to throw. The point of the clip is to highlight pocket presence. One guy reacted to the rush and the other didn't.

Pocket presence.

LOL. This Fantasy and Madden generation can only see H/W/S over anything else. So much of the QB position is so instinctual and nuanced, this idea you can just teach an athlete all these things is comical. You can improve but overall, so much of this comes down to you either having it or you don't.

Yep. These dudes don't understand that.
"He throws hard, he big, fast and strong, he will outrun rushers and just throw bombs." All while not mentioning you can literally see him twitching even in a clean pocket. Does not look comfortable at all there.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Yep. These dudes don't understand that.
"He throws hard, he big, fast and strong, he will outrun rushers and just throw bombs." All while not mentioning you can literally see him twitching even in a clean pocket. Does not look comfortable at all there.

Conversely, you have those that think physical deficiencies (lack of mobility, lack of a good NFL arm) won't cause problems for QBs in the nfl despite the fact that we have years and years of evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Yep. These dudes don't understand that.
"He throws hard, he big, fast and strong, he will outrun rushers and just throw bombs." All while not mentioning you can literally see him twitching even in a clean pocket. Does not look comfortable at all there.

Conversely, you have those that think physical deficiencies (lack of mobility, lack of a good NFL arm) won't cause problems for QBs in the nfl despite the fact that we have years and years of evidence to the contrary.

And by years and years, you mean, Russell Wilson.

How has extreme mobility and athleticism been the X-factor over years and years? Maybe in 10 more that'll prove correct but right now, it hasn't helped anyone over the top more than excellent mobility WITHIN the pocket to which, you don't need to be a hyper-athletic QB to do.

Originally posted by NCommand:
And by years and years, you mean, Russell Wilson.

How has extreme mobility and athleticism been the X-factor over years and years? Maybe in 10 more that'll prove correct but right now, it hasn't helped anyone over the top more than excellent mobility WITHIN the pocket to which, you don't need to be a hyper-athletic QB to do.

Name a top 5 QB over the past 10 years that had mediocre mobility and an average arm. I'll save you the time: they don't exist in today's NFL.

I think the issue you have is you think it's one or the other: if a QB is fast & has a great arm he can't have vision or pocket presence. This isn't true.

My point is if you have pocket presence and an average arm, eventually it's going to hamstring you. You then literally have to be perfect every time at that point and it's just not realistic to expect that

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
And by years and years, you mean, Russell Wilson.

How has extreme mobility and athleticism been the X-factor over years and years? Maybe in 10 more that'll prove correct but right now, it hasn't helped anyone over the top more than excellent mobility WITHIN the pocket to which, you don't need to be a hyper-athletic QB to do.

Name a top 5 QB over the past 10 years that had mediocre mobility and an average arm. I'll save you the time: they don't exist in today's NFL.

I think the issue you have is you think it's one or the other: if a QB is fast & has a great arm he can't have vision or pocket presence. This isn't true.

My point is if you have pocket presence and an average arm, eventually it's going to hamstring you. You then literally have to be perfect every time at that point and it's just not realistic to expect that

You're massively confusing pocket presence/mobility and instincts with athleticism.

Like I've showed you before in here, the average number of times off schedule plays happen is 4 times per game and that's WITH a small contingency of QB's inflating that number as they're more willing to break the pocket. You can be mobile or immobile and still successfully complete off schedule plays too.

Therefore, 95% of the players are within structure and within the pocket. Mobility within the pocket >>>>>>>> athleticism outside the pocket. And it's not even close.

Therefore, an unathletic QB can still find tons of successful in the NFL as long as he possesses excellent pocket mobility. And that's what you're seeing with Mac. And that's not really a skill you can just learn. It's a feel. An instinct.

The flip side is you can be ultra athletic and have poor pocket presence/mobility and take tons of sacks and hits and turnovers (fumbles). You saw that with Trey last week.

Now, show me your athletic QB with poor pocket mobility at the NFL. The athletic QB's who didn't have great pocket presence are long gone. They don't last long. Nobody talks about those.

The ones that remain today all have pocket mobility as well but top end athleticism isn't a requirement for that. You're focused on the 5%. We're focused on the 95% that draws success at the NFL level.

And if Trey doesn't develop that top level pocket presence and mobility at the NFL level, he won't last long either. No amount of athleticism will counter that.