Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Again just not that impressed. Dude is fine. That pass to Bourne was like a short 5-7 air yards then he runs by Titans for the remaining 40 yards.

Change my mind.

I doubt that he'll ever be a world beater but he's doing just fine.

This is where, in this advanced stats/sabermetrics for all sports where I think we can get get too wrapped up in the numbers that we lose some of the pure simplicity of the game.

Nothing wrong with giving credit to Kendrick Bourne and it's great to see him doing well too.

But I think people forget sometimes in getting wrapped up over "air yards" that a chief duty of the QB is still to make the right reads and distribute the ball to his playmakers. Just like a point guard in basketball. And in basketball, even if a guy makes an incredible shot or all world athletic dunk, if the point guard created the opportunity, or whomever created the opportunity for him to do it, they get the assist as well.

Rod Strickland had more flash to his game than John Stockton but we know who the better player and point guard was. Heck, Scott Skiles had a decent career as a pure point guard getting the ball to his guys.

Sometimes being quietly efficient works as well as being visually impressive- with air yards or anything else.

Maybe he winds up being so-so but right now he's doing very well.

Originally posted by OhioNiner:
I doubt that he'll ever be a world beater but he's doing just fine.

This is where, in this advanced stats/sabermetrics for all sports where I think we can get get too wrapped up in the numbers that we lose some of the pure simplicity of the game.

Nothing wrong with giving credit to Kendrick Bourne and it's great to see him doing well too.

But I think people forget sometimes in getting wrapped up over "air yards" that a chief duty of the QB is still to make the right reads and distribute the ball to his playmakers. Just like a point guard in basketball. And in basketball, even if a guy makes an incredible shot or all world athletic dunk, if the point guard created the opportunity, or whomever created the opportunity for him to do it, they get the assist as well.

Rod Strickland had more flash to his game than John Stockton but we know who the better player and point guard was. Heck, Scott Skiles had a decent career as a pure point guard getting the ball to his guys.

Sometimes being quietly efficient works as well as being visually impressive- with air yards or anything else.

Maybe he winds up being so-so but right now he's doing very well.

The Patriots are doing about as good of a job as I've seen when it comes to developing a rookie passer. Maybe Jones fades out ala Matt Cassel or maybe he ends up becoming a perennial Pro Bowler, eitherway the Patriots have brought him along well, never putting too much on to his plate, setting him up with a lot of favorable situations and not asking too much of him. They've allowed hm to build his confidence and continue to absorb a complicated passing offense while not having to play hero ball like the Jets have tried to do with Zach Wilson. They are giving him the best possible shot at long term success.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:
I doubt that he'll ever be a world beater but he's doing just fine.

This is where, in this advanced stats/sabermetrics for all sports where I think we can get get too wrapped up in the numbers that we lose some of the pure simplicity of the game.

Nothing wrong with giving credit to Kendrick Bourne and it's great to see him doing well too.

But I think people forget sometimes in getting wrapped up over "air yards" that a chief duty of the QB is still to make the right reads and distribute the ball to his playmakers. Just like a point guard in basketball. And in basketball, even if a guy makes an incredible shot or all world athletic dunk, if the point guard created the opportunity, or whomever created the opportunity for him to do it, they get the assist as well.

Rod Strickland had more flash to his game than John Stockton but we know who the better player and point guard was. Heck, Scott Skiles had a decent career as a pure point guard getting the ball to his guys.

Sometimes being quietly efficient works as well as being visually impressive- with air yards or anything else.

Maybe he winds up being so-so but right now he's doing very well.

The Patriots are doing about as good of a job as I've seen when it comes to developing a rookie passer. Maybe Jones fades out ala Matt Cassel or maybe he ends up becoming a perennial Pro Bowler, eitherway the Patriots have brought him along well, never putting too much on to his plate, setting him up with a lot of favorable situations and not asking too much of him. They've allowed hm to build his confidence and continue to absorb a complicated passing offense while not having to play hero ball like the Jets have tried to do with Zach Wilson. They are giving him the best possible shot at long term success.

I'm not so sure that "hero ball" just isn't in Wilson's DNA. I mean the Jets are the Jets, even with new people and they probably haven't helped. But he goes to a decent but mid tier football program in BYU, has one really good season and puts himself on the draft map basically playing hero ball. I know for whatever the reason, football fan, football articles, whatever, but stuff for Wilson comes up on my phone sometimes and the Jets certainly seem to want to actually try to break him of the hero ball habit.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The Patriots are doing about as good of a job as I've seen when it comes to developing a rookie passer. Maybe Jones fades out ala Matt Cassel or maybe he ends up becoming a perennial Pro Bowler, eitherway the Patriots have brought him along well, never putting too much on to his plate, setting him up with a lot of favorable situations and not asking too much of him. They've allowed hm to build his confidence and continue to absorb a complicated passing offense while not having to play hero ball like the Jets have tried to do with Zach Wilson. They are giving him the best possible shot at long term success.

Sounds like what Kyle does.

Originally posted by OhioNiner:
I'm not so sure that "hero ball" just isn't in Wilson's DNA. I mean the Jets are the Jets, even with new people and they probably haven't helped. But he goes to a decent but mid tier football program in BYU, has one really good season and puts himself on the draft map basically playing hero ball. I know for whatever the reason, football fan, football articles, whatever, but stuff for Wilson comes up on my phone sometimes and the Jets certainly seem to want to actually try to break him of the hero ball habit.

This! They have come out multiple times this year saying they want him to make the boring plays

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The Patriots are doing about as good of a job as I've seen when it comes to developing a rookie passer. Maybe Jones fades out ala Matt Cassel or maybe he ends up becoming a perennial Pro Bowler, eitherway the Patriots have brought him along well, never putting too much on to his plate, setting him up with a lot of favorable situations and not asking too much of him. They've allowed hm to build his confidence and continue to absorb a complicated passing offense while not having to play hero ball like the Jets have tried to do with Zach Wilson. They are giving him the best possible shot at long term success.

Totally agree!

What they did for Mac should be blueprinted for all rookie starting QB's.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by krizay:

Mac Jones / Tom Brady
First 381 passes

Mac
268/381 - 70.3% - 2,850 yds
16 TD - 8 INT
97.1 rate

Tom
245/381 - 64.3% - 2,616 yds
17 TD - 10 INT
88.2 rate pic.twitter.com/X4LCU44EwC

— Boston Sports Info (@bostonsportsinf) November 29, 2021

Seems like a fair comparison. It's not like the NFL made it significantly easier to pass in the 20 years since Brady's first 381 throws.

Let's adjust these per era:

2001 Mac = 63.8%, 2451 yds, 13 TD, 10 INT, 82.5 rating

2021 Brady = 70.8%, 3042 yds, 21 TD, 8 INT, 103.6 rating

I don't agree with that, but your not wrong…

the average yard per attempt has gone up from 6.8 to 7.2 since 2000.

Attempts has moved from 32 to 33.8.

The "era" has not shifted much.

But…..

The fall off of the 3-4 and Tampa 2 has changed how teams pass in the last 10 seasons, and completion percentage is up.

everyone is running some variant of a timing system, and even when you remove the "duel threat" QBs, guys like Nick Mullins become statically significant.

Mac Jones keeps throwing touchdowns and winning games. WZ keeps complaining he's not that good. LOL.

He's on pace for most posts than in the Jimmy thread lol

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by krizay:

Mac Jones / Tom Brady
First 381 passes

Mac
268/381 - 70.3% - 2,850 yds
16 TD - 8 INT
97.1 rate

Tom
245/381 - 64.3% - 2,616 yds
17 TD - 10 INT
88.2 rate pic.twitter.com/X4LCU44EwC

— Boston Sports Info (@bostonsportsinf) November 29, 2021

Seems like a fair comparison. It's not like the NFL made it significantly easier to pass in the 20 years since Brady's first 381 throws.

Let's adjust these per era:

2001 Mac = 63.8%, 2451 yds, 13 TD, 10 INT, 82.5 rating

2021 Brady = 70.8%, 3042 yds, 21 TD, 8 INT, 103.6 rating

I don't agree with that, but your not wrong…

the average yard per attempt has gone up from 6.8 to 7.2 since 2000.

Attempts has moved from 32 to 33.8.

The "era" has not shifted much.

But…..

The fall off of the 3-4 and Tampa 2 has changed how teams pass in the last 10 seasons, and completion percentage is up.

everyone is running some variant of a timing system, and even when you remove the "duel threat" QBs, guys like Nick Mullins become statically significant.

Average Starter Season (2000) - 268/451, 59%, 3,136 yards, 19 touchdowns, 14 interceptions
Average Starter Season (2018) - 320/489, 65%, 3,647 yards, 24 touchdowns, 11 interceptions

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Mac Jones is @PFF's QB2 over the last six weeks. Here's what he ranks league wide over that stretch:

• 2nd in yards (1379)
• 2nd in yards per attempt (8.1)
• 2nd in 'big time throws' (9)
• 3rd in passer rating (106.5)
• 4th in TD's (9)
• 4th in completion % (69.4%) pic.twitter.com/4kt9Z0ff9K

— Ryan Spagnoli (@Ryan_Spags) November 29, 2021

I like when they use the 'last six weeks' and leave out the fact that only 6 other QBs (Jimmy, Hurts, Ryan, Wentz, Tannehill) have played 6 games in that stretch.

• 2nd in yards (1379) - wrong. He is 6th behind Jimmy (1417), Stafford (1478), Carr (1468), Herbert (1459), Rodgers (1442). All but Jimmy have only played 5 games vs Mac's 6.

• 4th in TD's (9) - wrong. He is 8th behind Brady (13), Wentz (12), Stafford (11), Rodgers (11), Herbert (10), Cousins (10), Allen (10). All but Wentz have played 5 games vs Mac's 6.

What's funny about this post is that he thinks it's a knock on Mac that as a rookie he's right next to some elite qbs.

Mac is laughing his ass off all the way to the playoffs and offensive rookie of the year. But keep hating.

Except he isn't really 'right next' to any of them.

If you go by last six games instead of weeks, here are his ranks:

17th in passing yards
13th in pass TDs

In the last 6 games he is actually above them all in the category that matters most : wins. He is helping his team come out on top, week in and week out.

Ah right. Wins, the ultimate QB stat. I'm sure a lot of QBs would struggle to win if their defense gave up 10 points per game.

Pats have given up 15.8 ppg and are 8-4 with Mac.

Broncos have given up 17.8 ppg and are 6-5 with Teddy B.

Mac is helping his team win games. He moves the ball, moves the chains and helps put up points.

You realize there is only a one loss difference between those two teams, right? And Teddy has about the same passing stats. Denver and NE also have the same record vs common opponents.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
You realize there is only a one loss difference between those two teams, right? And Teddy has about the same passing stats. Denver and NE also have the same record vs common opponents.

NE is 7th in scoring and Denver is 21st. The Pats are the far better offense and team.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
You realize there is only a one loss difference between those two teams, right? And Teddy has about the same passing stats. Denver and NE also have the same record vs common opponents.

NE is 7th in scoring and Denver is 21st. The Pats are the far better offense and team.

That's because they also have the best starting field position in the league and their defense is getting the most turnovers.

Each passing week, Trey has a lot further to go to reach Mac's floor before anyone can start thinking about him reaching his own ceiling.

Originally posted by krizay:
Each passing week, Trey has a lot further to go to reach Mac's floor before anyone can start thinking about him reaching his own ceiling.

First 48 passes:

Mac: 37/48, 336 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT
Trey: 25/48, 354 yds, 3 TD, 1 INT

Mac had 4 INTs before he threw his 3rd TD pass.