Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
How the hell is that logic? its so wrong in every which way.

1. Jimmy probably isnt here because mac was 10000x times more ready to start than trey.
2. Cam didnt do go full potato. He was beat out by a much better player and belicheck was smart enough to know that. compare both of their play this last weekend. One played lights out. one got benched.

just more excuses

1. Our offense is more complex than what the Pats are doing so yah he would be sitting and learning. Jimmy had to sit and learn as well. He didn't start from day 1. You telling me one season starting at Bama trumps 3+ years learning at the foot of Brady?

2. They moved on from Cam when he messed up his COVID stuff. He was going to be the starter. Mac didn't beat anyone out, Cam got himself cut. If Cam doesn't screw up the COVID stuff he's still a Patriot.

Why is there such an intense desire to see Mac Jones succeed and Trey Lance fail? Do you hate Shanny that much? What do you personally gain if that happens?

Not just that, but the financial implications. Most of Jimmy's contract became guaranteed after June 1. KS even said there will be no competition and Jimmy is the starter.

BB was able to hold a open competition bc Cam had no guaranteed money basically. They could've cut him whenever. And once he got covid and wasn't vaccinated, it was an easy decision to make.

These guys in here acting like he just beat out the MVP version of Cam, and Cam hasn't been ass for the past several years now.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
How the hell is that logic? its so wrong in every which way.

1. Jimmy probably isnt here because mac was 10000x times more ready to start than trey.
2. Cam didnt do go full potato. He was beat out by a much better player and belicheck was smart enough to know that. compare both of their play this last weekend. One played lights out. one got benched.

just more excuses

1. Our offense is more complex than what the Pats are doing so yah he would be sitting and learning. Jimmy had to sit and learn as well. He didn't start from day 1. You telling me one season starting at Bama trumps 3+ years learning at the foot of Brady?

2. They moved on from Cam when he messed up his COVID stuff. He was going to be the starter. Mac didn't beat anyone out, Cam got himself cut. If Cam doesn't screw up the COVID stuff he's still a Patriot.

Why is there such an intense desire to see Mac Jones succeed and Trey Lance fail? Do you hate Shanny that much? What do you personally gain if that happens?

Not just that, but the financial implications. Most of Jimmy's contract became guaranteed after June 1. KS even said there will be no competition and Jimmy is the starter.

BB was able to hold a open competition bc Cam had no guaranteed money basically. They could've cut him whenever. And once he got covid and wasn't vaccinated, it was an easy decision to make.

These guys in here acting like he just beat out the MVP version of Cam, and Cam hasn't been ass for the past several years now.

None of Jimmy's 2021 salary was guaranteed until the regular season started.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
How the hell is that logic? its so wrong in every which way.

1. Jimmy probably isnt here because mac was 10000x times more ready to start than trey.
2. Cam didnt do go full potato. He was beat out by a much better player and belicheck was smart enough to know that. compare both of their play this last weekend. One played lights out. one got benched.

just more excuses

1. Our offense is more complex than what the Pats are doing so yah he would be sitting and learning. Jimmy had to sit and learn as well. He didn't start from day 1. You telling me one season starting at Bama trumps 3 years learning at the foot of Brady?

2. They moved on from Cam when he messed up his COVID stuff. He was going to be the starter. Mac didn't beat anyone out, Cam got himself cut. If Cam doesn't screw up the COVID stuff he's still a Patriot.

Why is there such an intense desire to see Mac Jones succeed and Trey Lance fail? Do you hate Shanny that much? What do you personally gain if that happens?

Not just that, but the financial implications. Most of Jimmy's contract became guaranteed after June 1. KS even said there will be no competition and Jimmy is the starter.

BB was able to hold a open competition bc Cam had no guaranteed money basically. They could've cut him whenever. And once he got covid and wasn't vaccinated, it was an easy decision to make.

These guys in here acting like he just beat out the MVP version of Cam, and Cam hasn't been ass for the past several years now.

None of Jimmy's 2021 salary was guaranteed until the regular season started.

Yes, once a player with 4 or more accrued years makes the week 1 53, then their base salary is fully GTD.

— Jason Hurley/49ers 2021 Cap Room=$3,883,111 (@49erscap) August 9, 2021

There were plenty of articles back then talking about this, AB also posted how he needed to be a pre June 1 cut to save most of that money. Once June 1 passed and he was still on the roster, you couldn't cut him without taking a big cap hit.

I am not sure why Jimmy's situation is different, but it is...

"NFL rumors: Jimmy Garoppolo's 49ers future 'wait and see' into 2021 | RSN" https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/nfl-rumors-jimmy-garoppolos-49ers-future-wait-and-see-2021?amp

"What Does Jimmy Garoppolo's Post-Draft Future Look Like? - The Ringer" https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/4/29/22408231/jimmy-garoppolo-future-49ers-draft

Even without the cap hit, what do you do if Trey wins? Bench 27 mil? Trade him for basically nothing and pay at least half his salary to another team? Teams weren't lining up to take on Jimmy's contract, especially after coming off another bad injury. No way we get a decent pick and they agree to his contract, AND Jimmy agrees to the trade.

This wasn't anything like the situation in NE.

Originally posted by random49er:
Here's where you get lost though, IMO. If the stat says he's bottom 5, he's bottom 5.

Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes,...they are plenty more than proven. We KNOW what they are capable of down the field on a consistent basis,...and have witnessed it for years by

Ok, here is your mental road block…..

you are talking about a rookie that has shown growth and is in fact flashing glimpses of his future. A rookie that played his worst ball behind a make shift line that had practice squad players plugging in holes all over the place. A rookie that does not have weapons on par with Rodgers or Mahomes… and yet here we are… the air yards are improving

Pigeon holing a rookie QB who shows promise and saying this is who he is based on the results of his first 4 or 5 games is an exercise in failure…. I guess that's why nobody in the NFL actually does that….

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:
Imagine having MJ10 and our next 2 1st. Sigh. Saw this outcome a mile away.

We wouldn't know what we had because Jimmy would still be starting. Hell if Cam doesn't full potato in training camp he's starting for at least half the season.

I agree with Strwy…. I suspect Jones and 2 first would be the better value…

but your 100% right… Mac would not beat out jimmy. Eventually Jimmy would get hurt and Mac would start, but we would not likely get the November version of Jones… we would get the rookie baptism under fire version that had do or die after do or die 3rd down passes likely with our the run pass option crutch to fall on.

As a Mac fan i think he would explode with the weapons on the 49ers

Originally posted by Dshearn:
Ok, here is your mental road block…..

you are talking about a rookie that has shown growth and is in fact flashing glimpses of his future. A rookie that played his worst ball behind a make shift line that had practice squad players plugging in holes all over the place. A rookie that does not have weapons on par with Rodgers or Mahomes… and yet here we are… the air yards are improving

Pigeon holing a rookie QB who shows promise and saying this is who he is based on the results of his first 4 or 5 games is an exercise in failure…. I guess that's why nobody in the NFL actually does that….

Nobody does it after 11 games either. He's gonna have his ups and downs like most qbs. We won't really know what any of these qbs really are until 3 years in.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by random49er:
Here's where you get lost though, IMO. If the stat says he's bottom 5, he's bottom 5.

Aaron Rodgers and Mahomes,...they are plenty more than proven. We KNOW what they are capable of down the field on a consistent basis,...and have witnessed it for years by

Ok, here is your mental road block…..

you are talking about a rookie that has shown growth and is in fact flashing glimpses of his future. A rookie that played his worst ball behind a make shift line that had practice squad players plugging in holes all over the place. A rookie that does not have weapons on par with Rodgers or Mahomes… and yet here we are… the air yards are improving

Pigeon holing a rookie QB who shows promise and saying this is who he is based on the results of his first 4 or 5 games is an exercise in failure…. I guess that's why nobody in the NFL actually does that….

Saying stuff like the air yards are improving is the true mental road block. You don't work to improve air yards.

They're simply a supportive stat to look at at times,...nothing more, nothing less.

Air yards shouldn't be an argument. Yet,...that doesn't mean we can't later use it as a supporting detail of our own arguments. How does this logic escape people to where they're still confused at why others bring it up in a convo?



Some will call me condescending but I'm not. It's just tiring to see this stat (like others) be used the wrong way as lone arguments when they arent.

Air yards are in the supporting detail category,...like 3rd down efficiency, YPA, Completion %, TDs per game, et. al.

It's really a tired subject that shouldn't be a subject (i.e.,...main idea) to begin with.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If he is bottom 5 in AY/C along with a couple possible HOF-level QBs,...this proves nothing. How bout we instead put all of their #s (Mahomes/Rodgers/Jones) on the table for a better look at things?

Originally posted by random49er:
Saying stuff like the air yards are improving is the true mental road block. You don't work to improve air yards.

You don't think all QBs work to become more effective? Adapt to new offenses? Become more comfortable to get the ball out on deeper progressions? Take less dump offs as they become familiar with their teammates and the speed of the NFL?

You don't think there is a period of adapting for rookie QBs?

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
How the hell is that logic? its so wrong in every which way.

1. Jimmy probably isnt here because mac was 10000x times more ready to start than trey.
2. Cam didnt do go full potato. He was beat out by a much better player and belicheck was smart enough to know that. compare both of their play this last weekend. One played lights out. one got benched.

just more excuses

1. Our offense is more complex than what the Pats are doing so yah he would be sitting and learning. Jimmy had to sit and learn as well. He didn't start from day 1. You telling me one season starting at Bama trumps 3 years learning at the foot of Brady?

2. They moved on from Cam when he messed up his COVID stuff. He was going to be the starter. Mac didn't beat anyone out, Cam got himself cut. If Cam doesn't screw up the COVID stuff he's still a Patriot.

Why is there such an intense desire to see Mac Jones succeed and Trey Lance fail? Do you hate Shanny that much? What do you personally gain if that happens?

Not just that, but the financial implications. Most of Jimmy's contract became guaranteed after June 1. KS even said there will be no competition and Jimmy is the starter.

BB was able to hold a open competition bc Cam had no guaranteed money basically. They could've cut him whenever. And once he got covid and wasn't vaccinated, it was an easy decision to make.

These guys in here acting like he just beat out the MVP version of Cam, and Cam hasn't been ass for the past several years now.

None of Jimmy's 2021 salary was guaranteed until the regular season started.

Yes, once a player with 4 or more accrued years makes the week 1 53, then their base salary is fully GTD.

— Jason Hurley/49ers 2021 Cap Room=$3,883,111 (@49erscap) August 9, 2021

There were plenty of articles back then talking about this, AB also posted how he needed to be a pre June 1 cut to save most of that money. Once June 1 passed and he was still on the roster, you couldn't cut him without taking a big cap hit.

I am not sure why Jimmy's situation is different, but it is...

"NFL rumors: Jimmy Garoppolo's 49ers future 'wait and see' into 2021 | RSN" https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/nfl-rumors-jimmy-garoppolos-49ers-future-wait-and-see-2021?amp

"What Does Jimmy Garoppolo's Post-Draft Future Look Like? - The Ringer" https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/4/29/22408231/jimmy-garoppolo-future-49ers-draft

Even without the cap hit, what do you do if Trey wins? Bench 27 mil? Trade him for basically nothing and pay at least half his salary to another team? Teams weren't lining up to take on Jimmy's contract, especially after coming off another bad injury. No way we get a decent pick and they agree to his contract, AND Jimmy agrees to the trade.

This wasn't anything like the situation in NE.

First link stated something similar to what AB has mentioned before.

"Garoppolo is not owed any guaranteed money in the final two years of his contract after this season, and the 49ers would carry only $1.4 million in dead cap if he is traded or cut after June 1."

His contract wouldn't become fully guaranteed until after week 1. And I wouldn't say $1.4m being a big cap hit.

or am I reading this wrong?

i just noticed that twitter account a49erfan77 posted is AB's lol

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by random49er:
Saying stuff like the air yards are improving is the true mental road block. You don't work to improve air yards.

You don't think all QBs work to become more effective? Adapt to new offenses? Become more comfortable to get the ball out on deeper progressions? Take less dump offs as they become familiar with their teammates and the speed of the NFL?

You don't think there is a period of adapting for rookie QBs?

Working to become more effective does not = working to improve air yards. Let's not bait and switch.

If a specific game plan calls for taking advantage of short stuff early and running the ball the rest of the game as the recipe,...then air yards probably wont be great that particular day, that's what it is.

But again, that's certainly not going to be the gameplan for all 16-17 games, and you want to show teams that your offense can be multiple. Harder to gameplan against. This includes dump offs,...you're able to have more large gains on them if the defense feels the need to lay off and worry about other things you've shown on film.

It's not an improving/regressing concept,...look @ Fields. What does it say on that chart, 8 AY/C? That's #1 on the list shown on the last page in the category. Does that mean he's like a Top 3 QB in the league and has arrived? NO.

The thought process would be out of whack with the detail (AY/C) making the argument (he's playing great), when really it should be heading in reverse of this,... with the argument (he's playing great) being supported by the detail (AY/C).

But of course, no one would be making such an outlandish argument anyway as if he's contending for MVP or something, so it'd never come up and his high AY/C has no real relevance to the possible argument. Combine the AY/C with other stats like total yardage (1300 or so) any idea of Fields being an MVP candidate is scrapped and you're on to the next idea. Isolated, Cant be stressed enough to combine stats like these with other stuff and stop trying to isolate them and overexaggerate their meaning.

This should be really, really simple,...but for some reason it's made to be hard on this forum.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sidenote: If you want the most meaningful QB stat that's isolated, it's pretty easy for me to argue that it's Total TDs for the season. Dan Marino's mark of 48 in a single season was pretty nuts,...especially with how different the game was back then.

Not only that, but the person's record Marino shattered (George Blanda, 36 TDs), and the ones that have broken/surpassed Marino's mark (Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes) all have MVP trophies in those years where those marks were set.

If you are absolutely hellbent on needing 1 number to measure QB performance, this one would be it. Needless to say, no one is giving out postseason trophies for air yards.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
How the hell is that logic? its so wrong in every which way.

1. Jimmy probably isnt here because mac was 10000x times more ready to start than trey.
2. Cam didnt do go full potato. He was beat out by a much better player and belicheck was smart enough to know that. compare both of their play this last weekend. One played lights out. one got benched.

just more excuses

1. Our offense is more complex than what the Pats are doing so yah he would be sitting and learning. Jimmy had to sit and learn as well. He didn't start from day 1. You telling me one season starting at Bama trumps 3 years learning at the foot of Brady?

2. They moved on from Cam when he messed up his COVID stuff. He was going to be the starter. Mac didn't beat anyone out, Cam got himself cut. If Cam doesn't screw up the COVID stuff he's still a Patriot.

Why is there such an intense desire to see Mac Jones succeed and Trey Lance fail? Do you hate Shanny that much? What do you personally gain if that happens?

Not just that, but the financial implications. Most of Jimmy's contract became guaranteed after June 1. KS even said there will be no competition and Jimmy is the starter.

BB was able to hold a open competition bc Cam had no guaranteed money basically. They could've cut him whenever. And once he got covid and wasn't vaccinated, it was an easy decision to make.

These guys in here acting like he just beat out the MVP version of Cam, and Cam hasn't been ass for the past several years now.

None of Jimmy's 2021 salary was guaranteed until the regular season started.

Yes, once a player with 4 or more accrued years makes the week 1 53, then their base salary is fully GTD.

— Jason Hurley/49ers 2021 Cap Room=$3,883,111 (@49erscap) August 9, 2021

There were plenty of articles back then talking about this, AB also posted how he needed to be a pre June 1 cut to save most of that money. Once June 1 passed and he was still on the roster, you couldn't cut him without taking a big cap hit.

I am not sure why Jimmy's situation is different, but it is...

"NFL rumors: Jimmy Garoppolo's 49ers future 'wait and see' into 2021 | RSN" https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/nfl-rumors-jimmy-garoppolos-49ers-future-wait-and-see-2021?amp

"What Does Jimmy Garoppolo's Post-Draft Future Look Like? - The Ringer" https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2021/4/29/22408231/jimmy-garoppolo-future-49ers-draft

Even without the cap hit, what do you do if Trey wins? Bench 27 mil? Trade him for basically nothing and pay at least half his salary to another team? Teams weren't lining up to take on Jimmy's contract, especially after coming off another bad injury. No way we get a decent pick and they agree to his contract, AND Jimmy agrees to the trade.

This wasn't anything like the situation in NE.

First link stated something similar to what AB has mentioned before.

"Garoppolo is not owed any guaranteed money in the final two years of his contract after this season, and the 49ers would carry only $1.4 million in dead cap if he is traded or cut after June 1."

His contract wouldn't become fully guaranteed until after week 1. And I wouldn't say $1.4m being a big cap hit.

or am I reading this wrong?

i just noticed that twitter account a49erfan77 posted is AB's lol

I thought Garoppolo's contract had a date in each of the last two seasons, where his salary becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster. not the boiler plate vested veteran language in the league contract, but specific language in his contract. I want to say it was the first week of April.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I thought Garoppolo's contract had a date in each of the last two seasons, where his salary becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster. not the boiler plate vested veteran language in the league contract, but specific language in his contract. I want to say it was the first week of April.

I believe you are correct. I remember one of my arguments this offseason was the fact that JG's contract would be guaranteed before the draft.

Edit: 2020 may have been last year for his guarantees

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I thought Garoppolo's contract had a date in each of the last two seasons, where his salary becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster. not the boiler plate vested veteran language in the league contract, but specific language in his contract. I want to say it was the first week of April.

I believe you are correct. I remember one of my arguments this offseason was the fact that JG's contract would be guaranteed before the draft.

Edit: 2020 may have been last year for his guarantees

There's $1.4m left on his bonus in 2022.

2022 Dead Cap: $1,400,000 2022 Cap Savings: $25,600,000

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I thought Garoppolo's contract had a date in each of the last two seasons, where his salary becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster. not the boiler plate vested veteran language in the league contract, but specific language in his contract. I want to say it was the first week of April.

I believe you are correct. I remember one of my arguments this offseason was the fact that JG's contract would be guaranteed before the draft.

Edit: 2020 may have been last year for his guarantees

There's $1.4m left on his bonus in 2022.

2022 Dead Cap: $1,400,000 2022 Cap Savings: $25,600,000

It wasn't part of his signing bonus, it was more like a roster bonus, or just a set date where his salary became guaranteed if he was still on the roster. It's totally possible that krizay is right and 2020 was the last year that language was in the contract.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I thought Garoppolo's contract had a date in each of the last two seasons, where his salary becomes guaranteed if he's still on the roster. not the boiler plate vested veteran language in the league contract, but specific language in his contract. I want to say it was the first week of April.

I believe you are correct. I remember one of my arguments this offseason was the fact that JG's contract would be guaranteed before the draft.

Edit: 2020 may have been last year for his guarantees

There's $1.4m left on his bonus in 2022.

2022 Dead Cap: $1,400,000 2022 Cap Savings: $25,600,000

It wasn't part of his signing bonus, it was more like a roster bonus, or just a set date where his salary became guaranteed if he was still on the roster. It's totally possible that krizay is right and 2020 was the last year that language was in the contract.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/jimmy-garoppolo-14472/