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Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Kyler Murray is also 24 and played in his first ever playoff game. Cardinals were limping towards the playoffs after starting 7-0.
ALSO - and very importantly - his HC is Kliff Kingsbury.
None of this changes what we were told about athletic QBs.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Trey Lance has been playing QB for 4-5 years.
Cam went to the Superbowl as did Kap. They weren't the most accurate ever - but were accurate enough to win games in the playoffs. They struggled later in their career for various reasons - injuries to Cam - their own offense tried to make them into a pocket passer to limit hits (both of them) - not having elite work ethic after getting paid and/or inability to improve in the film room. Some QBs just reach their limits and defenses figure them out.
I think a lot of 1st round QBs are busts for a LOT of reasons. Often they make so much money - they lose hunger and drive for the game. To me - that's the no1 reason why 1st round QBs or any player for that matter doesn't reach anywhere close to their potential. Their are a lot of distractions and money and you have to surround yourself with right ppl away from the game. Also - being in the right system and having the right coaches around you in the beginning makes a huge difference as well. I think the #1 reason is they usually got to poorly run teams. My #2 reason is alot of coaches think they can fix the deficiency by drafting a round peg and trying to put them in a square hole. Like Jalen Hurts in a WCO. Or Mac Jones in a chip Kelly offense. But I get your gist
Their have been dominant college QBs who had all the accuracy in the World - but failed in the NFL. Agreed accuracy is just my starting point. Not end all be all. Thanks to my Nathan Peterman crush
I think you can improve your accuracy a lot more than you can improve your arm strength and speed. This is why guys who have the elite arm - even when they're not the most accurate - get drafted before guys with accuracy but average arm strength.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Great rookie season. Led his team to the playoffs.
Originally posted by 4ML:
Pats won 10 games to make the playoffs.
2 of those ten wins came against playoff teams. 1 of those 2 wins against playoff teams came when Mac Jones threw for 19 yards in the game.
8 other wins came from beating:
Jets twice
Jaguars
Texans
Falcons
Browns
Panthers
Chargers
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Trey Lance has been playing QB for 4-5 years.
Cam went to the Superbowl as did Kap. They weren't the most accurate ever - but were accurate enough to win games in the playoffs. They struggled later in their career for various reasons - injuries to Cam - their own offense tried to make them into a pocket passer to limit hits (both of them) - not having elite work ethic after getting paid and/or inability to improve in the film room. Some QBs just reach their limits and defenses figure them out.
I think a lot of 1st round QBs are busts for a LOT of reasons. Often they make so much money - they lose hunger and drive for the game. To me - that's the no1 reason why 1st round QBs or any player for that matter doesn't reach anywhere close to their potential. Their are a lot of distractions and money and you have to surround yourself with right ppl away from the game. Also - being in the right system and having the right coaches around you in the beginning makes a huge difference as well. I think the #1 reason is they usually got to poorly run teams. My #2 reason is alot of coaches think they can fix the deficiency by drafting a round peg and trying to put them in a square hole. Like Jalen Hurts in a WCO. Or Mac Jones in a chip Kelly offense. But I get your gist
Their have been dominant college QBs who had all the accuracy in the World - but failed in the NFL. Agreed accuracy is just my starting point. Not end all be all. Thanks to my Nathan Peterman crush
I think you can improve your accuracy a lot more than you can improve your arm strength and speed. This is why guys who have the elite arm - even when they're not the most accurate - get drafted before guys with accuracy but average arm strength.
I also agree with the latter portion. I just don't put alot of stock in speed and not as much as some in arm strength. Getting drafted 1st doesn't guarantee you a whole heck of alot
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by 4ML:
Pats won 10 games to make the playoffs.
2 of those ten wins came against playoff teams. 1 of those 2 wins against playoff teams came when Mac Jones threw for 19 yards in the game.
8 other wins came from beating:
Jets twice
Jaguars
Texans
Falcons
Browns
Panthers
Chargers
So you're saying he didn't have a great rookie season?
Originally posted by 4ML:
I'll be honest - I didn't watch a lot of his games. He was very impressive against Titans and he was below average against Saints. Those are the two games I watched him play from start to finish.
I am just saying - if making the playoffs is the reason why ppl think he had a great season - then I don't find that to be an impressive feat. I think Bill Belicheck can win games against those teams with any starting caliber QB.
Originally posted by krizay:
Nothing wrong with wanting the complete package. As been said before. The issue the Jones side had was you and others were adamant that athletic QBs were the only way.
The argument continually went from wanting to needing.
Jones had/has above average arm and athleticism. He already has above average mental aspect with top notch accuracy. He isn't a QB you have to hope figures out the important aspects of playing QB. He was always going to succeed.
I get the fan base want for the total package. With Trey's arm and athleticism if he ever reaches Jones mental aspects and attain the accuracy that I'm told is attainable then yes sign me up.
However , history tells me he's unlikely to reach that ceiling that was created for him.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
I said the margin of error for a guy like Jones is much smaller...I said look at the league and who's winning games. I said name me the last pure in the pocket passer drafted in the past 5+ years that's been super successful.
Mac is always going to succeed? based off what? He sure as s**t didn't towards the end of the year and into the playoffs. Yes having the mental side of playing the position is probably one of the most important parts of playing QB. That's also the one thing that you can learn and improve upon. What you see is what you get with Jones IMO. There are ceilings and floors with players and his ceiling isn't as close to as high as the other QBs.
He does not have above average arm or athleticism for a NFL QB. Totally disagree there. He's damn near the same as Jimmy IMO (think Jimmy has a stronger arm), why replace Jimmy with basically Jimmy?
Yes the fan base wants you to go all in on the potential of having an elite QB, not another game manager. They want the opportunity to get to that Josh Allen type QB and you don't even get that opportunity with Jones. The league has changed and guess what so has our HC because he went and got Lance, who himself isn't stupid when it comes to football IQ.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
I said the margin of error for a guy like Jones is much smaller...I said look at the league and who's winning games. I said name me the last pure in the pocket passer drafted in the past 5+ years that's been super successful.
Mac is always going to succeed? based off what? He sure as s**t didn't towards the end of the year and into the playoffs. Yes having the mental side of playing the position is probably one of the most important parts of playing QB. That's also the one thing that you can learn and improve upon. What you see is what you get with Jones IMO. There are ceilings and floors with players and his ceiling isn't as close to as high as the other QBs.
He does not have above average arm or athleticism for a NFL QB. Totally disagree there. He's damn near the same as Jimmy IMO (think Jimmy has a stronger arm), why replace Jimmy with basically Jimmy?
Yes the fan base wants you to go all in on the potential of having an elite QB, not another game manager. They want the opportunity to get to that Josh Allen type QB and you don't even get that opportunity with Jones. The league has changed and guess what so has our HC because he went and got Lance, who himself isn't stupid when it comes to football IQ.
Yah I think if you looked at every starting QB in the league Mac would be in the bottom tier of arm strength. It's definitely below average.
Originally posted by random49er:
Rodgers has made a killing out of the pocket throughout his career. Don't mix him into this preferential obsession with QBs that probably remind you of yourself.
Lol so no thievery here,... Aaron Rodgers is/was a mobile QB through and through.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportskeeda.com/amp/nfl/top-5-mobile-quarterbacks-2021
Taking off too soon and impatience and all of those clichés meant absolutely nothing when Allen was on the field carving up Mac's team.
There is no "mobile vs. immobile" battle going on,... If a guy can move around better than another, it's a bonus in a game like football. Same with arm strength. Yea I know I know, Tom Brady has 7 rings and has never been very fast or agile, yet is considered by many to be the best QB ever. I get it.
Well this guy had long been regarded as one of the smartest humans in the world...
If I want my next child to be smart as well,...does that mean I should hope he is born with ALS and eventually a quadriplegic?? You see how that logic works?
I seriously doubt that Steven Hawking was so smart because he has less ability than others.
Having less ability is not an asset, and having an added ability doesn't mean your game has to be nontraditional.
There's no problem @ all with cheering a little harder for the "have nots",....but please,...let's be real about these players on a case-by-case basis @ the same time.