Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by FacePalm:
Yup. Accuracy, quick delivery, pocket manipulation, decision-making, ability to balance velocity vs touch, and overall mastery of the offensive scheme is what has always won and will always win in modern football. Seems these days people have fallen in love with backyard hero ball.

Yep, and what these guys are missing is super cerebral qbs, like Manning and Brady(possibly Mac), help the offensive line more than mobile qbs. They do this with presnap reads and audibles and then getting the ball out quickly consistently. Takes a football genius and am obsessed approach to the game

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by FacePalm:
Yup. Accuracy, quick delivery, pocket manipulation, decision-making, ability to balance velocity vs touch, and overall mastery of the offensive scheme is what has always won and will always win in modern football. Seems these days people have fallen in love with backyard hero ball.

Yep, and what these guys are missing is super cerebral qbs, like Manning and Brady(possibly Mac), help the offensive line more than mobile qbs. They do this with presnap reads and audibles and then getting the ball out quickly consistently. Takes a football genius and am obsessed approach to the game

What about a super cerebral guy who is also mobile?

That's the problem here, most deal in absolutes, you're smart or you're mobile, you read defences or play hero ball.

You can have both people, it is out there.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
What about a super cerebral guy who is also mobile?

That's the problem here, most deal in absolutes, you're smart or you're mobile, you read defences or play hero ball.

You can have both people, it is out there.

Good luck finding them. If it was in this draft you wouldn't be talking about taking heads off one dude for another

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
What about a super cerebral guy who is also mobile?

That's the problem here, most deal in absolutes, you're smart or you're mobile, you read defences or play hero ball.

You can have both people, it is out there.

Those are really rare...only 4 that I can name (Rodgers, Mahomes, R Wilson, Watson). Most others tend to gravitate to one or the other. If there's anyone in this draft class that even comes close it's Z Wilson or Lawrence. I can't see guys like Fields or Lance showing the same cerebral traits as the others.

Originally posted by FacePalm:
Those are really rare...only 4 that I can name (Rodgers, Mahomes, R Wilson, Watson). Most others tend to gravitate to one or the other. If there's anyone in this draft class that even comes close it's Z Wilson or Lawrence. I can't see guys like Fields or Lance showing the same cerebral traits as the others.

I don't think Wilson is in that category either. But a lot closer than Lance or Fields In my unprofessional opinion

Probably posted already, but didn't see it.

Originally posted by rathman4481:
Brady has usually always had a solid OL. He's struggled when teams could get home with 4.

Every QB struggles form within the pocket when you can get home with 4

That Part 3 analysis of Mac vs Kentucky is a good study. JTO definitely giving him more props on this one, especially with showing moments where he had to move outside the pocket to buy time.

Originally posted by rathman4481:
Why is it a scapegoat. Because it proves you need a good OL to win the super bowl? Even the so-called 'baby goat' needs a good OL to win. But Andy Reid did that OL no favors by not running the ball. Mahomes looked awful in that game because he couldn't do his normal thing.

It's a scapegoat because it was THREE backups (and backup to backup) all UDFAs...you're comparing the worst situation as if that's what ANY team/person in here is saying we should do? No s**t a QB needs guys that can play on the OL, not three dudes that were selling insurance earlier in the yr. You can say that for any position.

It's weak sauce. Throw a less mobile QB back there and someone is getting hurt, bad. They would have to throw in the towel and forfeit lol.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
What about a super cerebral guy who is also mobile?

That's the problem here, most deal in absolutes, you're smart or you're mobile, you read defences or play hero ball.

You can have both people, it is out there.

Right, I have no idea why a guy who's athletic can't play inside the pocket?

Watson was a green QB coming into the league. His weakness are the same as someone like Fields. First couple yrs what made him special was the ability to move and make plays. The past yr or two he's learned how to read coverages pre/post snap. He played within the pocket AND still makes plays outside of it. Josh Allen is starting to do that. Mahomes is there etc.

I have no idea why it has to be one of the other...big difference is you can learn the mental stuff, you can't become an athletic freak or throw a new arm on your body

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It's a scapegoat because it was THREE backups (and backup to backup) all UDFAs...you're comparing the worst situation as if that's what ANY team/person in here is saying we should do? No s**t a QB needs guys that can play on the OL, not three dudes that were selling insurance earlier in the yr. You can say that for any position.

It's weak sauce. Throw a less mobile QB back there and someone is getting hurt, bad. They would have to throw in the towel and forfeit lol.

While I agree his situation is unfair to compare. I will say that he passed up a lot of short quick passes to play hero ball.

If he takes what the defense was giving him when there. They may have had to adjust. But he passed up MULTIPLE hot reads to play hero ball.

That is part of the problem with these young dudes.

Originally posted by krizay:
Good luck finding them. If it was in this draft you wouldn't be talking about taking heads off one dude for another

Originally posted by FacePalm:
Those are really rare...only 4 that I can name (Rodgers, Mahomes, R Wilson, Watson). Most others tend to gravitate to one or the other. If there's anyone in this draft class that even comes close it's Z Wilson or Lawrence. I can't see guys like Fields or Lance showing the same cerebral traits as the others.

I think Lance might become this, he's so young and has some really impressive flashes. Setting your own protections and running your own offensive meetings is impressive at any stage, let alone as a 19 year old RS Freshman.

I see Lance as simply underdeveloped, he's 2 years behind Mac, I think if we gave him those 2 years he'd be special.

Fields has showed some very high level decision making, but not as much pre-snap, I wonder if that's coaching (or lack thereof).

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by krizay:
Good luck finding them. If it was in this draft you wouldn't be talking about taking heads off one dude for another

Originally posted by FacePalm:
Those are really rare...only 4 that I can name (Rodgers, Mahomes, R Wilson, Watson). Most others tend to gravitate to one or the other. If there's anyone in this draft class that even comes close it's Z Wilson or Lawrence. I can't see guys like Fields or Lance showing the same cerebral traits as the others.

I think Lance might become this, he's so young and has some really impressive flashes. Setting your own protections and running your own offensive meetings is impressive at any stage, let alone as a 19 year old RS Freshman.

I see Lance as simply underdeveloped, he's 2 years behind Mac, I think if we gave him those 2 years he'd be special.

Fields has showed some very high level decision making, but not as much pre-snap, I wonder if that's coaching (or lack thereof).

If they get Mac, do we call you 49erBigMacKorkle?

Originally posted by Giedi:
If they get Mac, do we call you 49erBigMacKorkle?

Ha! I'd take it, but only if the other 4 QB's are gone!

1. It might mean absolutely nothing because Shanny is always evolving and adding new wrinkles to his offense, but one thing that he and his father have always relied on is the rushing attack and PA off of that, and his quotes on how he views QB's for his offense makes me think he'll always take a guy like Ryan/Cousins over an exceptional athlete that basically significantly alters his playbook because of how defenses have to adjust to them, which can be good at times, but it limits his playbook.
   
   "I'll say that we run a lot of bootlegs and things like that. Usually the most success I've had with quarterbacks who can do that are the ones who aren't mobile, because I only want to run bootlegs and stuff if people aren't playing them and when you have a mobile guy, they're playing them. When you don't, they play the run and then you get slow quarterbacks out on the edge and they can throw all day. If there's an extremely athletic, a mobile quarterback who is legitimately mobile, who can make a guy miss in front of him, that takes a very special athlete. Those few guys you have, you need to put in a type of scheme that includes stuff like the zone read and things like that to give them a chance to use all their attributes." - Kyle Shanahan
   
   As I said though, who knows what Kyle is thinking going forward. I legit feel like he regrets passing on some of the recent athletic QB's, and he would've had to clearly make some adjustments to his offense to better utilize these guys, but if there are comparable QB's in this draft at the top of his board, that athletic guy has to have a extremely high ceiling for Kyle to want to change up his offense that has been very successful when health doesn't hinder it.
   
   If Jimmy isn't the guy, Mac Jones just seems like the guy who Kyle will favor over that big arm athlete that plays off script. People forget how much Kyle purposely calls plays that have no chance, all to set the defense up later in the game for a more explosive play. His QB has to be an extension of him and can't play hero ball. This is why it seems to take QB's a little while to explode under him. He has to almost reboot their entire mentality and how they've played in the past, but when they finally get it, wow, it looks special. This is why I truly don't think Jimmy has his trust yet. Injuries aside, he's still in that stage Matt Ryan was in during year 1 in ATL, and be should be further along at this point. Why have Jimmy eating a chunk of your cap when a guy like Jones can function at a suitable level on a much lower contract? Plus he'll have age on his side to grow in this offense as he gets comfortable. I just don't see Fields or Lance being able to start right away without having to greatly alter the offense, so now you're forced to keep Jimmy around for another year or two until they're ready, which is a bad use of your assets and cap space. We're a contender right now and you can't pause your window to develop a raw QB and basically stash your top 12 pick for a year. It's either stick with Jimmy or replace him with someone you're comfortable starting early at some point during the upcoming season. What KC pulled off with Smith/Mahomes is extremely risky, even if they ended up with the best possible outcome. I'll support it though if they feel that strongly about someone like Fields or Lance, or even Mond later in the draft, which I'd rather because we'd still use #12 to upgrade another position. I just don't think they'll go this route though because they haven't shown to be risk takers with their approach to team building.