Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by rathman4481:
It just comes down to of Kyle wants a pocket passer or a guy that can move.

And we know what Kyle wants of the two. Sure, he's probably liking the idea of a guy that creates on his own when things break down, but for the majority of plays, things ought to be executed the way they're drawn up.

And I don't get why people are acting like this whole mobile QB/off-script plays stuff is new. I remember being a kid and having nightmares about this dude running around, escaping defenders and chucking bombs downfield. The game hasn't changed. There's just more of them now.

People are victims of recency bias. They forget that guys like Favre, Young, Elway, Cunningham and many more were around before this and after them it was the McNabb, McNair, Vick, then onto Rodgers, Luck and others. This "New Wave" of QB's, isn't new. The only difference is now at the lower levels coaches are putting all the best athletes at QB and the few pocket QB's that make it through and get 1st round grades and then fail, they end up getting judged more harshly because it's fewer of them, but people ignore the amount of athletic 1st round QB's that have flopped hard over the last decade.

You can win with multiple QB's with different skillsets. The game hasn't changed enough where pocket QB's can't win anymore. Over the years there are way more pocket QB's with superbowl titles than athletic QB's. WAY MORE!

Originally posted by Nastastical:
People are victims of recency bias. They forget that guys like Favre, Young, Elway, Cunningham and many more were around before this and after them it was the McNabb, McNair, Vick, then onto Rodgers, Luck and others. This "New Wave" of QB's, isn't new. The only difference is now at the lower levels coaches are putting all the best athletes at QB and the few pocket QB's that make it through and get 1st round grades and then fail, they end up getting judged more harshly because it's fewer of them, but people ignore the amount of athletic 1st round QB's that have flopped hard over the last decade.

You can win with multiple QB's with different skillsets. The game hasn't changed enough where pocket QB's can't win anymore. Over the years there are way more pocket QB's with superbowl titles than athletic QB's. WAY MORE!

"ThE gAmE haS cHAnGEd. U goTTtA bE aBlE tO cReAtE oFfScRipT aNd bE mObIlE"





If anything, the rules have changed to make it more conducive for pocket passers since you can't touch them anymore. But athleticism, mobility, ability to create off-script, etc. have always been around.

Nothing harder to beat than guys who consistently make plays from the pocket

Originally posted by rathman4481:
Nothing harder to beat than guys who consistently make plays from the pocket

and when those plays breakdown...he's toast lol

Originally posted by Heroism:
Yeah, these dude's ain't anything new. The problem is finding a guy that strikes that sweet balance with being a passer first.

ie don't leave clean pockets.

That's all I'm looking for! I have no idea what people have to make it all about in the pocket vs out of the pocket stuff.

All these top guys in the league can do both. Watson wasn't running around every drop back, same with Mahomes or Rogers. They can do both when required to do either.

Most of these top athletic guys weren't running only guys. Fields could have had 500-600 yards rushing if he really wanted too.

No one is asking for Lamar Jackson lol. I want someone that can read coverages and is athletic with a live arm.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
That's all I'm looking for! I have no idea what people have to make it all about in the pocket vs out of the pocket stuff.

All these top guys in the league can do both. Watson wasn't running around every drop back, same with Mahomes or Rogers. They can do both when required to do either.

Most of these top athletic guys weren't running only guys. Fields could have had 500-600 yards rushing if he really wanted too.

No one is asking for Lamar Jackson lol. I want someone that can read coverages and is athletic with a live arm.

All things being equal we all would want that. The disconnect is not all of us believe that the QBs in this draft gives you both. Nor do all of us believe that it can or will be developed.

It's not that we don't want both. I personally don't see anyone that can do both. Zach Wilson being the closest thing to the QB you are wanting.

Originally posted by rathman4481:
Nothing harder to beat than guys who consistently make plays from the pocket

It's also easier on your offensive lineman. It's not a coincidence that the scramblers take way more sacks and get beat to hell before the age of 30. Not many are lucky like Russell Wilson and are so slippery that they consistently avoid getting laid out. Even slippery Kyler took some hits this season and Arizona had to tone his running down late, which hurt the team because he was playing injured.

And yes, Brady suffered an ACL tear 1x in his ridiculously long career, but just think about all the pocket passers remaining and ask yourself how many of them miss many games... excluding Jimmy, who basically does it to himself. Now compare that to the guys who are athletic and can hurt you with their legs by taking off or extending plays.

Favre was an iron man but he got beat to hell and just played through it, but Young dealt with injuries, so does Rodgers, Big Ben, Watson, and even Mahomes damn near had his head ripped off and has already dealt with his MCL and now foot problems. Luck had to retire because he was broken down. You also have Newton who has broken down quickly, and I'm sure Jackson/Allen won't get away with their playstyle for long before it catches up to them. Yet guys like Brady, Brees, the Manning's, Rivers, Ryan, Cousins, Stafford, and most other pocket QB's can stay relatively healthy for basically the majority of their long careers.

I also get sometimes it's just bad luck, like Joe Burrow, who was in the pocket and not scrambling, but these guys put themselves at risk way more than your traditional QB's that operate from the pocket. Doing all that running around isn't sustainable UNLESS you're Russell Wilson, and coat yourself in grease before each game.

I just like Mac Jones' feet.

Originally posted by Nastastical:
People are victims of recency bias. They forget that guys like Favre, Young, Elway, Cunningham and many more were around before this and after them it was the McNabb, McNair, Vick, then onto Rodgers, Luck and others. This "New Wave" of QB's, isn't new. The only difference is now at the lower levels coaches are putting all the best athletes at QB and the few pocket QB's that make it through and get 1st round grades and then fail, they end up getting judged more harshly because it's fewer of them, but people ignore the amount of athletic 1st round QB's that have flopped hard over the last decade.

You can win with multiple QB's with different skillsets. The game hasn't changed enough where pocket QB's can't win anymore. Over the years there are way more pocket QB's with superbowl titles than athletic QB's. WAY MORE!

Just started watching these QBs. I want to hitch my wagon to one and see if I have an eye for this type of thing. Jones is good and wouldn't be too mad if we took him, bit it'd come at the expense of getting an impact player to help us next year and I'm not sure he's worth that. His path to greatness going to have to be his intelligence. If he's as smart as everybody says then that will allow him to outwit defenses. That would be especially attractive with Shannahan as a coach.

I only watch these guys as fits for the Niners and his pass protection here isn't going to be half of what he got at Alabama. He also throws a s**t ton of short swing passes. If we're looking to expand our offense down the field I don't think he's the guy to do it. He has a nice deep ball but generally his receivers are at least a yard or two behind the Defense. They're throws he should make but will come much fewer and far between in the NFL.

If he goes to the right spot he'll be money. He can obviously play the game if he has talent around him, but if a weak team grabs him to start day one he could be in trouble. Really his X factor for me is his smarts. Can that overcome his average tools and athleticism? I'm a big fan of smart players but it's hard for me to determine how that translates. Ima watch some more draft videos to see what others smarter than me have to say.

Originally posted by Antix:
Just started watching these QBs. I want to hitch my wagon to one and see if I have an eye for this type of thing. Jones is good and wouldn't be too mad if we took him, bit it'd come at the expense of getting an impact player to help us next year and I'm not sure he's worth that. His path to greatness going to have to be his intelligence. If he's as smart as everybody says then that will allow him to outwit defenses. That would be especially attractive with Shannahan as a coach.

I only watch these guys as fits for the Niners and his pass protection here isn't going to be half of what he got at Alabama. He also throws a s**t ton of short swing passes. If we're looking to expand our offense down the field I don't think he's the guy to do it. He has a nice deep ball but generally his receivers are at least a yard or two behind the Defense. They're throws he should make but will come much fewer and far between in the NFL.

If he goes to the right spot he'll be money. He can obviously play the game if he has talent around him, but if a weak team grabs him to start day one he could be in trouble. Really his X factor for me is his smarts. Can that overcome his average tools and athleticism? I'm a big fan of smart players but it's hard for me to determine how that translates. Ima watch some more draft videos to see what others smarter than me have to say.

We should only be concerned with if we are the right spot.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by Antix:
Just started watching these QBs. I want to hitch my wagon to one and see if I have an eye for this type of thing. Jones is good and wouldn't be too mad if we took him, bit it'd come at the expense of getting an impact player to help us next year and I'm not sure he's worth that. His path to greatness going to have to be his intelligence. If he's as smart as everybody says then that will allow him to outwit defenses. That would be especially attractive with Shannahan as a coach.

I only watch these guys as fits for the Niners and his pass protection here isn't going to be half of what he got at Alabama. He also throws a s**t ton of short swing passes. If we're looking to expand our offense down the field I don't think he's the guy to do it. He has a nice deep ball but generally his receivers are at least a yard or two behind the Defense. They're throws he should make but will come much fewer and far between in the NFL.

If he goes to the right spot he'll be money. He can obviously play the game if he has talent around him, but if a weak team grabs him to start day one he could be in trouble. Really his X factor for me is his smarts. Can that overcome his average tools and athleticism? I'm a big fan of smart players but it's hard for me to determine how that translates. Ima watch some more draft videos to see what others smarter than me have to say.

We should only be concerned with if we are the right spot.

Mac Jones would shine with Kyle Shanahan as his coach. Put him with Shanny, Payton, McDaniels, or Gruden, and I believe they showcase his best qualities, but if he ends up in a place like Denver or Washington, I don't like the fits and could see him being called a bust soon. Most prospects need to go to the right team/system to succeed, but especially QB's.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I just like Mac Jones' feet.

His feet are exceptional and such an underrated trait. Everyone focuses on the arm and mobility. Feet plays such a huge role in passing.

Originally posted by FacePalm:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I just like Mac Jones' feet.

His feet are exceptional and such an underrated trait. Everyone focuses on the arm and mobility. Feet plays such a huge role in passing.

Good feet and the pocket awareness to go with them. All the greats have it.

Originally posted by Nastastical:
It's also easier on your offensive lineman. It's not a coincidence that the scramblers take way more sacks and get beat to hell before the age of 30. Not many are lucky like Russell Wilson and are so slippery that they consistently avoid getting laid out. Even slippery Kyler took some hits this season and Arizona had to tone his running down late, which hurt the team because he was playing injured.

And yes, Brady suffered an ACL tear 1x in his ridiculously long career, but just think about all the pocket passers remaining and ask yourself how many of them miss many games... excluding Jimmy, who basically does it to himself. Now compare that to the guys who are athletic and can hurt you with their legs by taking off or extending plays.

Favre was an iron man but he got beat to hell and just played through it, but Young dealt with injuries, so does Rodgers, Big Ben, Watson, and even Mahomes damn near had his head ripped off and has already dealt with his MCL and now foot problems. Luck had to retire because he was broken down. You also have Newton who has broken down quickly, and I'm sure Jackson/Allen won't get away with their playstyle for long before it catches up to them. Yet guys like Brady, Brees, the Manning's, Rivers, Ryan, Cousins, Stafford, and most other pocket QB's can stay relatively healthy for basically the majority of their long careers.

I also get sometimes it's just bad luck, like Joe Burrow, who was in the pocket and not scrambling, but these guys put themselves at risk way more than your traditional QB's that operate from the pocket. Doing all that running around isn't sustainable UNLESS you're Russell Wilson, and coat yourself in grease before each game.

The risk with these hyper-mobile QBs is that they tend to expose themselves by holding on to the ball too long looking to make a play. Pocket passers, at least the good ones, protect themselves by knowing how to get rid of the ball. Mobile QBs take a long time to learn that, if at all.