Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Oh I agree with you, just against this negative media campaign that has people believing Mac Jones is a better prospect, I'm fine with anyone who has come up with that opinion themselves.

I'd much rather trade up for Fields than wait for Mac.

agreed and they might have to move up for either one.

Potentially, I really can see the Panthers going for Mac. They're welcome to him.

I'm still thinking we wait. There is guaranteed to be a potential stud available, just might not be a QB. With how the O-Line is shaping up I trust Jimmy more, it is a big opportunity to upgrade though. I'm torn.

I dont want to touch Mac before the 2nd round. I think taking him earlier is a reach that I'd rather somebody else make.

It's hard to look at players who could be there at 12 and take Jones over them.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Potentially, I really can see the Panthers going for Mac. They're welcome to him.

I'm still thinking we wait. There is guaranteed to be a potential stud available, just might not be a QB. With how the O-Line is shaping up I trust Jimmy more, it is a big opportunity to upgrade though. I'm torn.

I don't think we wait at all, nor should they. You can't just say I'm cool with any 4 of these QBs and hope one falls.

Sean Payton was talking about that yesterday on the DP show. He cringes when he hear people say that...that's not a position you f**k around with and when you spot the guy you go get them. Future picks are meaningless when it comes to QB.

He said that happened to them with Mahomes. They had the 11th pick and were gonna draft Mahomes and as SOON as KC moved up he knew they were taking him. they waited and lost.

SF just invested $138M into a LT, have to sign Warner and have Bosa needing a massive deal in a couple yrs. You can't have a dude like Jimmy making that kind of cash....it will work for this yr BUT not in 2022. Go get your guy let him sit for this season (maybe less depends). They've set it up to be able to do that.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Webzone: Ewww, Mac Jones reminds me of Andy Dalton.
49ers: We want Andy Dalton.

Oh the irony!

It's simple.

One has a soul and one doesn't.

Ha! Well if Mac Jones is Matt Ryan it's not going to matter, I'm just not sure the arm strength is there to threaten all areas of the field.

The only place were his arm strength doesn't stick out, is if he has to throw it 15-20 yards between two defenders and put some heat on it. That he can't really do. But everything else, including throwing a great deep ball, is there. You don't need to have a cannon to be a great QB.

You watch the way he times his throws compared to Fields, its a huge difference. If he really is that smart QB that processes things at an elite level, that is so much more important than a great arm. Plenty of QBs with a great arm, but few of them can process the game like Manning could or Brady or Joe or Brees...That talent is far less common.

What I watch when I see Fields is an elite thrower and post snap decision maker, playing in an average offense, with poor pre snap awareness. I think his flaws are correctable.

I just can't understand in what world anyone thinks these two compare as prospects.

When I watch Mac I see someone who lit it up in college but those throws you're talking about that he struggles with take away parts of the field in the NFL.

I split the field into 9, short, mid and deep, L, R and middle. I'm not keen on removing two or three of those areas when I have guys that can access it all.

That's why Fields is going top 5 or 6 and Jones isn't.

But it should be noted: Garoppolo has similar limitations, except Jones has better deep accuracy. So it's an upgrade, which IMHO makes it a good pick. The odds of Fields being there at 12 are minuscule.

Oh I agree with you, just against this negative media campaign that has people believing Mac Jones is a better prospect, I'm fine with anyone who has come up with that opinion themselves.

I'd much rather trade up for Fields than wait for Mac.

I think Fields is gonna be pretty good with the right situation. But good luck getting him without a massive trade.

Lots to like about Fields. Accurate. Tough. Quick reactions. Just about an elite arm. Mobile. Can go through progressions. Can step up in the pocket. Can throw with anticipation (needs work on all three of those "cans" though).

But you're not getting a rookie with elite physical tools who isn't in need of development.

But signing Mack makes me wonder how much the team is in "win now" mode, which would mean it's unlikely we trade up for a QB.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Potentially, I really can see the Panthers going for Mac. They're welcome to him.

I'm still thinking we wait. There is guaranteed to be a potential stud available, just might not be a QB. With how the O-Line is shaping up I trust Jimmy more, it is a big opportunity to upgrade though. I'm torn.

I don't think we wait at all, nor should they. You can't just say I'm cool with any 4 of these QBs and hope one falls.

Sean Payton was talking about that yesterday on the DP show. He cringes when he hear people say that...that's not a position you f**k around with and when you spot the guy you go get them. Future picks are meaningless when it comes to QB.

He said that happened to them with Mahomes. They had the 11th pick and were gonna draft Mahomes and as SOON as KC moved up he knew they were taking him. they waited and lost.

SF just invested $138M into a LT, have to sign Warner and have Bosa needing a massive deal in a couple yrs. You can't have a dude like Jimmy making that kind of cash....it will work for this yr BUT not in 2022. Go get your guy let him sit for this season (maybe less depends). They've set it up to be able to do that.

You can if you grade them all highly enough, the Saints example isn't great as they could have selected Watson, and ended up with a great player in Lattimore anyway. Drew gave them the flexibility, Jimmy gives it to us.

We can pay Jimmy until Bosa needs paying, so we have another year at least.

We should at least make phone calls, but we don't need to be desperate and overpay.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
You can if you grade them all highly enough, the Saints example isn't great as they could have selected Watson, and ended up with a great player in Lattimore anyway. Drew gave them the flexibility, Jimmy gives it to us.

We can pay Jimmy until Bosa needs paying, so we have another year at least.

We should at least make phone calls, but we don't need to be desperate and overpay.

The point is when you value a player, epically at QB you can't sit and wait and be fine taking the next dude if he's gone....regardless of the Watson situation, they wanted Mahomes that's what he said.... it was him and Latt at the top of their big board. They thought the could sit and wait and didn't get him.

Mahomes a million times over Latt. Now they're stuck with Winston/Hill or whatever it is. I mean s**t what would have moving up a couple spots costed them vs what happened? They had no problem giving up a future first for Davenport the next yr.

We have this yr with Jimmy, dats it...go get your guy quit p***yfooting around pretend like some elite QB is gonna fall into your lap. Can't think like that.

SF isn't gonna be in a better place to get a QB in 2022 and they can't afford everyone with Jimmy on the books...not unless you're giving him an extension and I'm not holding my breath on that happening.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1369845538905075720

Originally posted by krizay:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1369845538905075720

What does big throws actually mean?

Originally posted by Alfienator:
What does big throws actually mean?

What is a big-time throw?

In its simplest terms, a big-time throw is on the highest end of both difficulty and value. While the value is easy to see statistically, the difficulty has more to do with passes that have a lower completion percentage the further the ball is thrown down the field. Therefore, the big-time throw is best described as a pass with excellent ball location and timing, generally thrown further down the field and/or into a tighter window.

The idea of the tight window can often bog people down as they ask, "Why do you want your quarterback to make riskier throws?" But it's less about taking a risk and more about executing a pass that perhaps makes up for a deficiency on the offense. If a receiver can only create a tiny window of separation and the quarterback can put the ball in an optimum spot, he's now created a big-play opportunity despite the receiver, not because of him. "Throwing receivers open" is a necessary skill at the NFL level, and big-time throws are just one way to capture it statistically. Sometimes difficult throws are necessary, because every offense will end up in unfavorable down-and-distance situations at times, and completing a regulation 3-yard out doesn't help on 3rd-and-15.

Furthermore, we may see big-time throws under heavy pressure, turning a negative play into a positive, making a tight-window throw in the red zone where all passing windows are compressed, or perhaps throwing the beautiful 50-yard bomb down the field with good ball location. Hitting receivers #InStride is also important and more difficult to achieve the further the ball is thrown down the field. Well-thrown downfield passes that allow for further catch-and-run opportunities fall into the big-time throw category.

The levels of grading in the PFF system also allows for us to separate simple "catch opportunities" and "optimum throws." Consider a 30-yard 'go' route where the receiver has one step of separation. A quarterback can complete that pass with varying degrees of ball location, either hitting him perfectly in stride, hitting him on his frame for an easy catch, or underthrowing it just enough that the defender can get back in the play, but with the receiver still having the advantage. Allowing the receiver to catch and run is the important part of this scenario to achieve the big-time throw, while simply throwing a "catchable" pass may earn a positive, but it's a step below optimum ball location.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Ha! Well if Mac Jones is Matt Ryan it's not going to matter, I'm just not sure the arm strength is there to threaten all areas of the field.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
The only place were his arm strength doesn't stick out, is if he has to throw it 15-20 yards between two defenders and put some heat on it. That he can't really do. But everything else, including throwing a great deep ball, is there. You don't need to have a cannon to be a great QB.

You watch the way he times his throws compared to Fields, its a huge difference. If he really is that smart QB that processes things at an elite level, that is so much more important than a great arm. Plenty of QBs with a great arm, but few of them can process the game like Manning could or Brady or Joe or Brees...That talent is far less common.

I think he'll be fine in Kyles offense if that's his only flaw (tier B arm instead of tier A). One reason is with Kyle's heavy play action, i think a quick release (if he has that) is more important. Most of the top NFL linebackers have tremendous speed and atheticism to close those windows in a hurry after they have been faked out by the run.

My other question about Mac Jones accuracy. A tier B arm is ok, I think, if Mac can knock out a mosquito at 20 yards. In other words, If he can place the ball where the defender can't get it, 99% of the time (for example) I wouldnt downgrade him for having a weaker arm than some of the other draftees. Just my .o2 cents.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Webzone: Ewww, Mac Jones reminds me of Andy Dalton.
49ers: We want Andy Dalton.

Oh the irony!

It's simple.

One has a soul and one doesn't.

Ha! Well if Mac Jones is Matt Ryan it's not going to matter, I'm just not sure the arm strength is there to threaten all areas of the field.

The only place were his arm strength doesn't stick out, is if he has to throw it 15-20 yards between two defenders and put some heat on it. That he can't really do. But everything else, including throwing a great deep ball, is there. You don't need to have a cannon to be a great QB.

You watch the way he times his throws compared to Fields, its a huge difference. If he really is that smart QB that processes things at an elite level, that is so much more important than a great arm. Plenty of QBs with a great arm, but few of them can process the game like Manning could or Brady or Joe or Brees...That talent is far less common.

What I watch when I see Fields is an elite thrower and post snap decision maker, playing in an average offense, with poor pre snap awareness. I think his flaws are correctable.

I just can't understand in what world anyone thinks these two compare as prospects.

When I watch Mac I see someone who lit it up in college but those throws you're talking about that he struggles with take away parts of the field in the NFL.

I split the field into 9, short, mid and deep, L, R and middle. I'm not keen on removing two or three of those areas when I have guys that can access it all.

That's why Fields is going top 5 or 6 and Jones isn't.

But it should be noted: Garoppolo has similar limitations, except Jones has better deep accuracy. So it's an upgrade, which IMHO makes it a good pick. The odds of Fields being there at 12 are minuscule.

Oh I agree with you, just against this negative media campaign that has people believing Mac Jones is a better prospect, I'm fine with anyone who has come up with that opinion themselves.

I'd much rather trade up for Fields than wait for Mac.

He's not a better prospect. Anytime you have a QB that's more athletic, has a stronger arm, more often than not they are going to be the better prospect. What Mac has, is possible better intangibles than Fields or Lawrence. But it's obviously hard to measure those intangibles. And they might not even be there at the pro level. Maybe he isn't that good reading the field or timing his passes well. Then you are stuck with an average arm QB lol.

Its easy to see the appeal of a Fields or Lance or Wilson or Trey, because a lot of coaches say, hey I can teach him how to read a defense, but I can't teach Mac how to run a 4.5 or throw with that kind of velocity.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
You can if you grade them all highly enough, the Saints example isn't great as they could have selected Watson, and ended up with a great player in Lattimore anyway. Drew gave them the flexibility, Jimmy gives it to us.

We can pay Jimmy until Bosa needs paying, so we have another year at least.

We should at least make phone calls, but we don't need to be desperate and overpay.

The point is when you value a player, epically at QB you can't sit and wait and be fine taking the next dude if he's gone....regardless of the Watson situation, they wanted Mahomes that's what he said.... it was him and Latt at the top of their big board. They thought the could sit and wait and didn't get him.

Mahomes a million times over Latt. Now they're stuck with Winston/Hill or whatever it is. I mean s**t what would have moving up a couple spots costed them vs what happened? They had no problem giving up a future first for Davenport the next yr.

We have this yr with Jimmy, dats it...go get your guy quit p***yfooting around pretend like some elite QB is gonna fall into your lap. Can't think like that.

SF isn't gonna be in a better place to get a QB in 2022 and they can't afford everyone with Jimmy on the books...not unless you're giving him an extension and I'm not holding my breath on that happening.

Agree with the presumption that they should not be picking this high next year, so kind of think that it's now or who knows when. I really wish they had the ammo to go get Wilson, I don't think they do and don't think Saleh would move off Wilson anyway. I think it comes down to Fields or Lance, would rather have Fields by a small margin. The wild card teams are going to be Denver, Carolina, and Detroit so I think SF has to move ahead of those teams. With Denver and Carolina being biggest threats IMO. But yeah, barring a Watson deal, they have to get their guy this draft I think.

That is going to be Mac's ultimate evaluation. Will his intangibles be able to hide some of his arm limitations? And is it enough to draft him at 12? We've seen it go both ways in the past. Guys with average arms having high levels of success because they have great intangibles. We've also seen guys with unlimited tools get 'figured out' because they aren't great mental processors. Then you have the guys that have both which are truly rare (Rodgers, Elway, Young).

Just watching Mac, as a DC how are you going to attack him? I think some of the more mobile and athletic guys are easier to plan against because you can *try* and force them to stay in the pocket and make throws there.

Originally posted by rathman4481:

Just watching Mac, as a DC how are you going to attack him? I think some of the more mobile and athletic guys are easier to plan against because you can *try* and force them to stay in the pocket and make throws there.

Good point. In college, it went like this: he's immobile, but if you blitz him, he'll burn you with his hot read. If you sit in zone, he takes what you give him, and if you play man, he goes hunting and looks for a KO punch.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by rathman4481:

Just watching Mac, as a DC how are you going to attack him? I think some of the more mobile and athletic guys are easier to plan against because you can *try* and force them to stay in the pocket and make throws there.

Good point. In college, it went like this: he's immobile, but if you blitz him, he'll burn you with his hot read. If you sit in zone, he takes what you give him, and if you play man, he goes hunting and looks for a KO punch.

The key phrase is In College, I don't think we can assume this level of play, I also think the comfort blanket he had in Devonta Smith may be inflating opinions of his processing.

I can't see him keeping NFL DC's up at night, at least not early on.