Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Is there anyone on here that WANTS Jones? I'm sure there are several who think it'll happen.

I don't have a problem with Jones. It's a bit rich to draft him after having given up that much but they aren't drafting Johnny Manziel here. I think he could excel in the 49ers offense. I'm largely okay with any of the top QB's although a bit wary about Lance due to his overall lack of passing reps.

I think that's fair. I think Fields is going to be the pick. But unfortunately the Mac Jones narrative is super underwhelming and it does seems to be their style.

If they really do want Jones, I'm wondering if they will trade back to 5 or 6 and pick up some extra picks in the process. The rumors were that they tried to trade #12 for the 5th or 6th slot and couldn't. Now that they have a higher pick, maybe they can trade back and still get Jones plus another pick or two. Just one more possible scenario.

Originally posted by thl408:
During these times when everyone and their mama has a breakdown video, I've been searching for non-popular content hoping for additional insight. This guy played college ball at USC and in his other videos I've watched he breaks down passing concepts and progressions so he knows that part of the game. Here's his Mac Jones breakdown:


TLDW
Strengths:
Intermediate routes
Reading leverage, throwing WRs open
Consistent execution of play concept

Weaknesses:
Overstriding in his footwork
Lack of mobility (not just for scrambling, but also for boot action plays)
No reps on video of timed, quick game throws (slants, quick outs, hitches); this is not referring to bubble screens
Average level of difficulty due to talented supporting cast
Not fluid throwing on the run

That was the best breakdown I've seen yet. TY for that!

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Is there anyone on here that WANTS Jones? I'm sure there are several who think it'll happen.

I don't have a problem with Jones. It's a bit rich to draft him after having given up that much but they aren't drafting Johnny Manziel here. I think he could excel in the 49ers offense. I'm largely okay with any of the top QB's although a bit wary about Lance due to his overall lack of passing reps.

I think that's fair. I think Fields is going to be the pick. But unfortunately the Mac Jones narrative is super underwhelming and it does seems to be their style.

I like him a lot. Would have loved him at #12. I really think he'll be at least solid. Hopefully more than that, though.

I'm sorry, IMO you don't give up three first round picks for a QB prospect without any discernible "special traits". I'm tired of this "Kyle likes statue, boring QBs, so Jones is the guy" BS. Kyle has to be tired of losing/trying to defend mobile QBs who look to throw when they scramble like Mahomes, Wilson and Murray twice a year. Opposed to Jimmy who looks for somewhere to turtle when the first read isn't there and he feels an ounce of pressure.
Just not Jones please.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
During these times when everyone and their mama has a breakdown video, I've been searching for non-popular content hoping for additional insight. This guy played college ball at USC and in his other videos I've watched he breaks down passing concepts and progressions so he knows that part of the game. Here's his Mac Jones breakdown:


TLDW
Strengths:
Intermediate routes
Reading leverage, throwing WRs open
Consistent execution of play concept

Weaknesses:
Overstriding in his footwork
Lack of mobility (not just for scrambling, but also for boot action plays)
No reps on video of timed, quick game throws (slants, quick outs, hitches); this is not referring to bubble screens
Average level of difficulty due to talented supporting cast
Not fluid throwing on the run

That was the best breakdown I've seen yet. TY for that!

Agree.

Originally posted by Jaden:
All I know is my heart sunk when I heard Lynch and Shanny heading to Jones second pro day. This could mean anything but I remember that feeling I got when Solly was drafted. I just got that same feeling. It was not a good feeling. It just doesn't make sense to give up so much draft capital for a guy like Mac Jones. I wish we stayed were we were and drafted a corner. I have this small feeling that we all have no idea what's really going. Simms hyped up Mac Jones March 3 2021. Schefter stated the Niners were trying to move up to the 4th, 5th spot 3-4 weeks ago. The one thing we all know is Shanahan doesn't give a damn what people think.

And he shouldn't. Him and our front office are the ones who's reputation and jobs are on the line if they blow this pick, not any of us. When we look stupid in here for hyping a bust, we just move on to the next draft class and start making more uninformed predictions on prospects. NFL teams are the ones working 24/7 year round watching film, visiting prospects schools, talking to coaches/teammates/family members/professors/girlfriends and anyone else that can give them insight into the prospect. We just watch games and highlights and then act like we are now knowledgeable enough to become backseat drivers because we have NOTHING TO LOSE.

I hyped Quinnen Williams over Bosa, but guess who was right and who was wrong? Now what happens if I was right and Lynch was wrong? I get to say "I told you so!" BUT Lynch is now on the hot seat. Anyone sitting in here screaming for a prospect literally has NO CLUE what hell we are talking about. We don't have access to anything other than game film. No background reports, medical history, and no player access to determine if a QB is capable of learning a team's offense. Stop pretending like you can do a better job than someone like Kyle Shanahan.

All these forums, social media and everywhere else where draft talks take place become unbearable during draft time for EVERY sport because everyone has an opinion and this is their chance to beat their chest because there is no downside to being wrong.

Kyle Shanahan, John Lynch and Adam Peters know this is a franchise altering move and selection, maybe we should chill out and let them do what they believe is the best decision for the franchise going forward. Anyone still using Solomon Thomas over wAtSoN/mAHoMeS tHoUgH and then we took bEaThArD! are straight up acting ignorant. They literally just both got a new job and had to scout an entire draft class in basically a couple months, using some scouts from the previous regime because both were hired LATE in the coaching search process. This isn't close to the same situation where they've been preparing for this for a full year. The fact that Jimmy still hasn't been restructured tells you that they've been doing their homework to eventually replace him probably since the superbowl or possibly even during his first injury. Let them do their damn jobs! They've rebuilt an ENTIRE ROSTER and had us 10mins away from a superbowl in ONLY year 3. Maybe they deserve the benefit of doubt that they know how to build a team.

Originally posted by Murphys1:
I like him a lot. Would have loved him at #12. I really think he'll be at least solid. Hopefully more than that, though.

IMHO
Ceiling: Rivers/Ryan
Floor: Jimmy G/Cousins/Carr
Basement: Tim Couch/David Klingler

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
It wouldn't be my favorite or personal choice BUT I 100% would get it and would be behind it 5 minutes after the pick.

And all the smoke is mentally and emotionally preparing me for that fire.

I take solace in knowing every QB Kyle has worked with, he's got the most out of him. He's taken a talent like Matt Ryan and he got better and better and better.

That could be the case here and Matt Ryan is proof you never stop growing and developing even as a veteran. As a rookie, Jones is a perfect mold clay with 100% buy-in from the start (no push back like with Ryan).

It would mean Kyle would need to continue to invest in pass protection and THAT scares me far more than the pick itself.

Why can't you take a MUCH MUCH better piece of clay then? You keep saying his Matt Ryan, yet Ryan is like 15-20lbs bigger and 2/3 inches taller. He wasn't a pure in the pocket passer at BC (watch that Vtech game for example). He wasn't surrounded by elite talent. I don't think BC has been close to good since he left. It's not close to the same situation. I'd be vastly more impressed if he did what he did at BC and guys weren't constantly wide open.

If Kyle wants someone that can read progressions and throw the ball on time then go get someone on day 2 of the draft. Go get a Davis Mills or Trask... You don't spend 3 1sts and then some for that.

Ahhh there's the PP comment I was waiting for

I brought up the PP for you as a lean towards your want...it's less of an issue with the mobile QB's you want. Clearly more of an issue if he goes with Mac Jones. Right?

I don't know if Kyle values what you value in a QB as a primary driver. Like Hero said, if you simply watch the tape in isolation you see all of Kyle's traits...lightning quick delivery, progression reading, touch on short and deep balls that allow for optimal YAC, lightening decision making (including to run), watch his footwork and mechanics, how he moves IN the pocket and feels the pressure before it gets there as he slides into lanes keeping his eyes downfield, etc. You see all of Kyle's offense in that one video I reviewed too.

Also, you don't need to run a 4.3 to run a bootleg in Kyle's offense esp. in shot gun. It helps to have lateral speed and quickness in case McGlinchey and/or Kittle instantly blow their pass protection but it's certainly not a must. If you can slide fast enough into pocket lanes, you can run a bootleg.

I confirmed with Niners816 that of the 570 passing attempts, 142 were PA. He runs those just fine. So how many of the 142 do you think were bootlegs?

He thinks, at most 35 times A YEAR.

One thing about Mac's processing speed. The dude (supposedly) already has a masters degree when most everybody else still needs to take some classes to finish their undergraduate degree.

(Again I'm leaning Fields as my personal favorite) but Tom's made a good living processing and solving defensive schemes better than other QBs and with the handicapp of a very limited physical skill set. If Lance's and Feilds ceilings are comped to Mahomes, why not Macs ceiling comped to Ryan/Brady?

If Mac is picked at #3 and I'm still doubtful about that, I'll try to convince myself that Kyle is trying to draft the next Tom Brady. And if he fails then at least he tried. Vs staying at #12 and never having the opportunity to do so because he went to another team. I can give him credit for trying and failing, but certainly won't give him credit if he tries to play it safe. Fortune favors the Bold.

The thing that stood out to me was his decisiveness ONCE he processes. We can see Jimmy Garoppolo process to a 3rd read but still hesitate to throw it. Mac, progresses and instantly throws or scrambles for positive yards. There's no hesitation.

But you're right. Compare them in buckets. And proper buckets.

Mahomes apparently, is the new standard for the new league and fans. Yet, while he IS incredibly mobile, he still only runs for 200 yards a year. That means off schedule, he's running around behind the LOS to throw and not run and he has the arm strength and feel to do that without putting himself too much in harm's way. That bomb he completed against us, he was back peddling 20 yards to complete. LOL. In short, he's a QB who's using his athleticism and mobility to execute a throw. That's the Steve Young bucket for me and I remember how long it took Young to become that.

There are a number of other mobile and athletic QB's that use their mobility to run, not throw. And those seem to be one's flaming out even after a one-hit-wonder year.

We can infer that the news that Lynch and Shanahan attending the Pro day of Mac Jones together while Peters and others attend Fields pro day one of the following is true:

1) Lynch/Shanahan attending Mac Jones pro is a smoke screen

2) Mac Jones is the presumptive pick, but they are just crossing Ts and dotting Is in sending others to watch Fields

3) The 49ers are confused

Why would BOTH Shanahan and Lynch go to Jones unless Mac is the frontrunner OR it is a smoke screen. If a smoke screen for Jones, what do they need a smokescreen for?? Are they to convince a team to trade with the jets to leapfrog to #2 and take Mac Jones? Are they trying to convince the Jags or Jets to take Mac Jones first? If they are targeting Lance, they have him. No, this is not a smoke screen

Jets are taking Wilson, period. The 49ers will take Lance, Jones or Fields, period.

Urban Meyers did not attend Zach Wilson's pro day. Why? he is taking Lawrence.

Jets GM, Saleh and OC all attended Wilson's pro day. Why? They are taking Wilson.

Which QB pro day did Shanahan attend before Jones? None. Not Lance's Wilson's and will not go to Fields. They were trying to trade up to spot 5 initially, meaning they knew Jones wouldn't go that high.

So at this point the 49ers seem to want Jones.

They made a block buster trade, initially wanting spot #5 but were forced to go 3, knowing for certain Mac Jones would be there.

There is no need for a smokescreen.

Originally posted by Murphys1:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Is there anyone on here that WANTS Jones? I'm sure there are several who think it'll happen.

I don't have a problem with Jones. It's a bit rich to draft him after having given up that much but they aren't drafting Johnny Manziel here. I think he could excel in the 49ers offense. I'm largely okay with any of the top QB's although a bit wary about Lance due to his overall lack of passing reps.

I think that's fair. I think Fields is going to be the pick. But unfortunately the Mac Jones narrative is super underwhelming and it does seems to be their style.

I like him a lot. Would have loved him at #12. I really think he'll be at least solid. Hopefully more than that, though.

**IF** Kyle picks him, Kyle will need to have a much stronger run game (and he has a pretty good run game now) due to Macs mobility issues. A strong run game will help him avoid having to do a lot outside the pocket, simply because he can call a audible and hand off to his RB.

Kyle will need to continually invest in OLinemen, lots of 3rs and 4th rounders at minimum to keep the OLine stocked full of good pass protection guys. Who are always at a premium.

With those, I think Mac will do decently in Kyles system.

Originally posted by KID9R:
I'm sorry, IMO you don't give up three first round picks for a QB prospect without any discernible "special traits". I'm tired of this "Kyle likes statue, boring QBs, so Jones is the guy" BS. Kyle has to be tired of losing/trying to defend mobile QBs who look to throw when they scramble like Mahomes, Wilson and Murray twice a year. Opposed to Jimmy who looks for somewhere to turtle when the first read isn't there and he feels an ounce of pressure.
Just not Jones please.

Define "special traits." Both the physical and mental + intangible. Often times the special traits aren't the ones you see in a 40 time.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
If they really do want Jones, I'm wondering if they will trade back to 5 or 6 and pick up some extra picks in the process. The rumors were that they tried to trade #12 for the 5th or 6th slot and couldn't. Now that they have a higher pick, maybe they can trade back and still get Jones plus another pick or two. Just one more possible scenario.

If it's Jones this is exactly what I'm thinking. I can see the Panthers at 8 calling.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
During these times when everyone and their mama has a breakdown video, I've been searching for non-popular content hoping for additional insight. This guy played college ball at USC and in his other videos I've watched he breaks down passing concepts and progressions so he knows that part of the game. Here's his Mac Jones breakdown:


TLDW
Strengths:
Intermediate routes
Reading leverage, throwing WRs open
Consistent execution of play concept

Weaknesses:
Overstriding in his footwork
Lack of mobility (not just for scrambling, but also for boot action plays)
No reps on video of timed, quick game throws (slants, quick outs, hitches); this is not referring to bubble screens
Average level of difficulty due to talented supporting cast
Not fluid throwing on the run

That was the best breakdown I've seen yet. TY for that!

A lot of what I've been saying! Holy hell I may be a bit "passionate" on my evaluations...but damn I'm not a dummy.

he's not this massive scheme fit like everyone has been saying.

This is such a great beak down of what he was at Bama good & bad.

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
We can infer that the news that Lynch and Shanahan attending the Pro day of Mac Jones together while Peters and others attend Fields pro day one of the following is true:

1) Lynch/Shanahan attending Mac Jones pro is a smoke screen

2) Mac Jones is the presumptive pick, but they are just crossing Ts and dotting Is in sending others to watch Fields

3) The 49ers are confused

Why would BOTH Shanahan and Lynch go to Jones unless Mac is the frontrunner OR it is a smoke screen. If a smoke screen for Jones, what do they need a smokescreen for?? Are they to convince a team to trade with the jets to leapfrog to #2 and take Mac Jones? Are they trying to convince the Jags or Jets to take Mac Jones first? If they are targeting Lance, they have him. No, this is not a smoke screen

Jets are taking Wilson, period. The 49ers will take Lance, Jones or Fields, period.

Urban Meyers did not attend Zach Wilson's pro day. Why? he is taking Lawrence.

Jets GM, Saleh and OC all attended Wilson's pro day. Why? They are taking Wilson.

Which QB pro day did Shanahan attend before Jones? None. Not Lance's Wilson's and will not go to Fields. They were trying to trade up to spot 5 initially, meaning they knew Jones wouldn't go that high.

So at this point the 49ers seem to want Jones.

They made a block buster trade, initially wanting spot #5 but were forced to go 3, knowing for certain Mac Jones would be there.

There is no need for a smokescreen.

Great points. I was hoping Fields was the guy.