Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
This thread is ridiculous.

We hire Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius, to win us Lombardi trophies, but we don't give him the quarterback that allows him to run his offense? We just don't seem to grasp this is not a physical position. All the great quarterbacks beat you with their heads, not their physical prowess. Physical specimens at the position are a dime a dozen. The guys that have minds so quick that no matter what you try to do to stop them, they make what you just did wrong. That, folks, is he way to win against the intelligent defenses of the NFL today.

Kyle can't trust Jimmy Garoppolo. The lack of trust runs so deep that he only threw eight times against Green Bay in the playoffs. Every game, he knows there will be a least a couple of WTF plays. He can't play his game of making you defend "every blade of grass", because everybody in the league knows Jimmy can't hit the deep ball. The world Screams "Lets Make Garoppolo Beat Us" Every Sunday. We Lost the Super Bowl because Jimmy couldn't hit Sanders when he beat his man by five yards. But, Mac is no good because his guys get open too often.

Mac Jones Never has WTF plays. Mac Jones hits the deep balls. Mac Jones is The Man that Shanahan can trust. If we can't see that, we are selfish in our biases and not good fans. Either trust Shanahan to go get his man, or now is the time to go find your next head coach. Not.

OK, yes, you need good enough physical traits. We can't do it with noodle arm Sean Hill. Mac's deep balls show he has enough arm strength. Oh, but he's slow. His 40 time is 4.79. Jimmy Garoppolo's is 4.97. Joe Montana's is 4.7. Tua's is 4.90. Hell, Jerry freakin Rice's is 4.71

How about the latest Super Bowl winning quarterbacks? Per Google:

Tom Brady 5.28

Patrick Mahomes 4.80 4.80, people. Does that surprise you?

Tom Brady 5.28

Nick foles 5.14

Tom Brady 5.28

Peyton Manning 4.80

Tom Brady 5.28

Russsell Wilson 4.55

Joe Flacco 4.84

Eli Manning 4.92

Aaron Rodgers 4.71

Drew Brees 4.83

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Eli Manning 4.92

Peyton Manning 4.80

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Tom Brady 5.28

TomBrady 5.28

Brad Johnson 5.02

Tom Brady 5.28

Trent Dilfer 4.7

So, 5 of the last 21 Super Bowls winners were quarterbacked by oh so slightly faster men. Less than 24 percent. Man, don't give me that loser. (Oh Wait, he's the National Champion?) Give me somebody more athletic, and I will develop his mental quickness to that of the top five out of 330 million.

Good Luck.

You can check my posts in this thread, I'm a big Jones fan. But giving up what we gave up to draft Jones doesn't make sense.

Yes he can run Kyle's offense. Yes he's possibly an upgrade over Jimmy, certainly contract wise but his ceiling is limited.

Especially if we're serious about keeping Jimmy then Jones simply doesn't make sense. Not with giving up all that draft capital.

You take the guy with elite traits who has shown enough where you're confident in his ability to grow as a passer and NFL QB.

Jones at 12, hell yes. Jones at 3 after that trade up just doesn't make sense. Kyle has talked about changing how he evaluates players. Fields checks all the boxes Kyle talked about. Accurate, big arm, great athletic ability and he's not a guy who looks to run if his first read is covered.

We'll see what happens but I just don't see us making that jump with Jones being the target.

Agree, for me it's Fields, Mac, Lance in that order. I think Kyle is a good enough coach to turn any of the three into super stars, but I think you don't need as much OLine talent if Fields is the pick. Mac will need to be protected and Kyle needs to deepen the RB talent if Mac is the choice. Still learning about Lance. I know next to nothing about him, he's such a raw player with very little experience.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
So it has come. We are now comparing Mac Jones to hall of famers.

My comp for him is still Andy Dalton. Shanahan can make him a pro bowler, but we will not go anywhere in the playoffs. IMO.

Same here, that's been my comp for a while. he's still the 4th best QB in the division and it wouldn't be remotely close.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by KID9R:
Yeah you should be able to find a quarterback to hit wide open wide receivers for less than three first round picks. A 3 first round pick quarterback should be able to do more than that.

Yet, some wants us to take a pair of them that needs to learn how to do that.

Just to be clear, you are saying that neither Wilson, Lance, or Fields could perform equal to Mac Jones given the exact same Alabama team? Disagree immensely. Lol

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree and the reason is the rules changes. If not for the rules changes, then the classic QB pocket passer would still dominate the NFL. Having said that, the QBs job is really from the neck up vs the neck down - and the rules changes haven't really affected that part of the job description. A guy who can spot the free guy 10 yards downrange and hit him (I think) is as good as the guy who can scramble and gain ten yards because he *couldn't* see the guy free at 10 yards. It's a wash, in my book.

Exactly my point, for 3 first round picks you get the guy with mobility that they CAN ALSO hit that "free guy 10 yards downrange" but if that guy 10 yards down the field happens to be covered he also has the ability avoid a sack while backpedalling throwing a dart to a different wide receiver who is less covered 20 yards down the field. Or shed a couple would be tacklers and scramble for 10 yards IF ALL ELSE FAILS.
Jones cannot do that.

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
This thread is ridiculous.

We hire Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius, to win us Lombardi trophies, but we don't give him the quarterback that allows him to run his offense? We just don't seem to grasp this is not a physical position. All the great quarterbacks beat you with their heads, not their physical prowess. Physical specimens at the position are a dime a dozen. The guys that have minds so quick that no matter what you try to do to stop them, they make what you just did wrong. That, folks, is he way to win against the intelligent defenses of the NFL today.

Kyle can't trust Jimmy Garoppolo. The lack of trust runs so deep that he only threw eight times against Green Bay in the playoffs. Every game, he knows there will be a least a couple of WTF plays. He can't play his game of making you defend "every blade of grass", because everybody in the league knows Jimmy can't hit the deep ball. The world Screams "Lets Make Garoppolo Beat Us" Every Sunday. We Lost the Super Bowl because Jimmy couldn't hit Sanders when he beat his man by five yards. But, Mac is no good because his guys get open too often.

Mac Jones Never has WTF plays. Mac Jones hits the deep balls. Mac Jones is The Man that Shanahan can trust. If we can't see that, we are selfish in our biases and not good fans. Either trust Shanahan to go get his man, or now is the time to go find your next head coach. Not.

OK, yes, you need good enough physical traits. We can't do it with noodle arm Sean Hill. Mac's deep balls show he has enough arm strength. Oh, but he's slow. His 40 time is 4.79. Jimmy Garoppolo's is 4.97. Joe Montana's is 4.7. Tua's is 4.90. Hell, Jerry freakin Rice's is 4.71

How about the latest Super Bowl winning quarterbacks? Per Google:

Tom Brady 5.28

Patrick Mahomes 4.80 4.80, people. Does that surprise you?

Tom Brady 5.28

Nick foles 5.14

Tom Brady 5.28

Peyton Manning 4.80

Tom Brady 5.28

Russsell Wilson 4.55

Joe Flacco 4.84

Eli Manning 4.92

Aaron Rodgers 4.71

Drew Brees 4.83

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Eli Manning 4.92

Peyton Manning 4.80

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Tom Brady 5.28

TomBrady 5.28

Brad Johnson 5.02

Tom Brady 5.28

Trent Dilfer 4.7

So, 5 of the last 21 Super Bowls winners were quarterbacked by oh so slightly faster men. Less than 24 percent. Man, don't give me that loser. (Oh Wait, he's the National Champion?) Give me somebody more athletic, and I will develop his mental quickness to that of the top five out of 330 million.

Good Luck.

I don't think anybody here is judging quarterback solely on their 40 times. I think you're confusing 40 times with mobility/scrambling to create space and make throws downfield. In the Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Zach Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson mold. The prototypical NFL quarterback is changing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Nastastical:
This is such nonsense. My guess is you only watch highlights if you think Mac is mostly hitting open 1st read options.

145 of his 400 passing attempts were either at the LOS of behind it.

this video was posted earlier and it a great honest breakdown of him good/bad

So wait, when people criticize Fields for holding the ball too long, you guys blame the offense and the long developing option routes. When Lance is criticized for abandoning plays too quickly to tuck and run, it's because it's what is asked of him. Yet Mac Jones playing within his offense is a knock against him? Forget that this is basically a lot of the same ways Shanny likes to beat teams?

Back to my original point though. Mac Jones has a ton of tape showing him going through his progressions and finding the open man WHEN ASKED TO DO IT. To call him a one read QB is crap. If Jones is going to take heat for the offense he played in, then so should Trevor Lawrence.

huge window, meh ball placement

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Same here, that's been my comp for a while. he's still the 4th best QB in the division and it wouldn't be remotely close.

Maybe we're doing a sneaky three-way trade with the Bears or something where we bamboozle the Seahawks into giving us Russell Wilson

Originally posted by Nastastical:
So wait, when people criticize Fields for holding the ball too long, you guys blame the offense and the long developing option routes. When Lance is criticized for abandoning plays too quickly to tuck and run, it's because it's what is asked of him. Yet Mac Jones playing within his offense is a knock against him? Forget that this is basically a lot of the same ways Shanny likes to beat teams?

Back to my original point though. Mac Jones has a ton of tape showing him going through his progressions and finding the open man WHEN ASKED TO DO IT. To call him a one read QB is crap. If Jones is going to take heat for the offense he played in, then so should Trevor Lawrence.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree and the reason is the rules changes. If not for the rules changes, then the classic QB pocket passer would still dominate the NFL. Having said that, the QBs job is really from the neck up vs the neck down - and the rules changes haven't really affected that part of the job description. A guy who can spot the free guy 10 yards downrange and hit him (I think) is as good as the guy who can scramble and gain ten yards because he *couldn't* see the guy free at 10 yards. It's a wash, in my book.

The classic pocket passer still does dominate the nfl. Brady just won yet again. Yeah there's a run first qb that's been very successful in lamar. There's a couple more guys in deshaun and murray who are major dual threats but haven't won anything yet. There's the mahomes and rodgers and Russ wilson who scramble behind the los and make plays out of breakdowns that dominate as well.

Problem is in this draft there's one Aaron rodgers type in Wilson that won't be there at three. There's a John Elway type that will be going number one. So we're left with a dual threat type that hasn't won anything yet and honestly are either fields or Lance on par with Watson or murray as prospects? Or we can go pure pocket passer that constantly wins and is exactly what Kyle wants for his offense. He doesn't want some guy improvising on the fly. He wants someone hitting kittle/deebo/aiyuk in stride. That's why I think this is an easy call. Wish we were at one or two but those weren't available for a reason.

Originally posted by roasthawg:
The classic pocket passer still does dominate the nfl. Brady just won yet again. Yeah there's a run first qb that's been very successful in lamar. There's a couple more guys in deshaun and murray who are major dual threats but haven't won anything yet. There's the mahomes and rodgers and Russ wilson who scramble behind the los and make plays out of breakdowns that dominate as well.

Problem is in this draft there's one Aaron rodgers type in Wilson that won't be there at three. There's a John Elway type that will be going number one. So we're left with a dual threat type that hasn't won anything yet and honestly are either fields or Lance on par with Watson or murray as prospects? Or we can go pure pocket passer that constantly wins and is exactly what Kyle wants for his offense. He doesn't want some guy improvising on the fly. He wants someone hitting kittle/deebo/aiyuk in stride. That's why I think this is an easy call. Wish we were at one or two but those weren't available for a reason.

Love your 2nd paragraph

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Man, what Chris Simms says here at 39:00 is everything I need to hear.



"He's the quickest decision maker I've ever seen. His arm is better than Joe Burrow." ~ CS

He also thinks Zac Wilson is better than Trevor Lawrence. Do you agree with that as well?

This is some of the most absurd b******t I've heard. His arm talent most certainly not better. there isn't a single person that thinks his arm talent is better than Burrow.

His decision making lol. Almost 35% of his throws were made at or behind the LOS...should I throw it a open Smith or check it down to Harris. People talk about his footwork which is fine under structure but when forced to move around it's not good at all.

listening to Chris Simms talk about draft prospects is like listening to a 10 yr old talk about their favorite sports player lol.

Burrow had 124 tight window throws completed to evaluate during his senior year

Mac had only 44 .

On that aspect. No comparison. Huge difference, 11% of completions for Mac versus 24% of completions for Burrow into tight windows.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Mac Jones currently leads the nation with 13.3 yards per attempt.

Even more impressive?

Since his start in the Iron Bowl last year, Jones is averaging 15 yards per attempt in the second half.pic.twitter.com/ODUWtCHvfQ

— Connor O'Gara (@cjogara) October 12, 2020

huge window, meh ball placement

Lol stares at him the entire way, wide open

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree and the reason is the rules changes. If not for the rules changes, then the classic QB pocket passer would still dominate the NFL. Having said that, the QBs job is really from the neck up vs the neck down - and the rules changes haven't really affected that part of the job description. A guy who can spot the free guy 10 yards downrange and hit him (I think) is as good as the guy who can scramble and gain ten yards because he *couldn't* see the guy free at 10 yards. It's a wash, in my book.

The classic pocket passer still does dominate the nfl. Brady just won yet again. Yeah there's a run first qb that's been very successful in lamar. There's a couple more guys in deshaun and murray who are major dual threats but haven't won anything yet. There's the mahomes and rodgers and Russ wilson who scramble behind the los and make plays out of breakdowns that dominate as well.

Problem is in this draft there's one Aaron rodgers type in Wilson that won't be there at three. There's a John Elway type that will be going number one. So we're left with a dual threat type that hasn't won anything yet and honestly are either fields or Lance on par with Watson or murray as prospects? Or we can go pure pocket passer that constantly wins and is exactly what Kyle wants for his offense. He doesn't want some guy improvising on the fly. He wants someone hitting kittle/deebo/aiyuk in stride. That's why I think this is an easy call. Wish we were at one or two but those weren't available for a reason.

+1

Kyle doesn't want a guy who goes off script and improvises, quite the opposite he wants someone to execute exactly what he calls on the field.

Originally posted by roasthawg:
The classic pocket passer still does dominate the nfl. Brady just won yet again. Yeah there's a run first qb that's been very successful in lamar. There's a couple more guys in deshaun and murray who are major dual threats but haven't won anything yet. There's the mahomes and rodgers and Russ wilson who scramble behind the los and make plays out of breakdowns that dominate as well.

Problem is in this draft there's one Aaron rodgers type in Wilson that won't be there at three. There's a John Elway type that will be going number one. So we're left with a dual threat type that hasn't won anything yet and honestly are either fields or Lance on par with Watson or murray as prospects? Or we can go pure pocket passer that constantly wins and is exactly what Kyle wants for his offense. He doesn't want some guy improvising on the fly. He wants someone hitting kittle/deebo/aiyuk in stride. That's why I think this is an easy call. Wish we were at one or two but those weren't available for a reason.

Uh fields can do all of those things, has a better arm AND can make something happen when plays don't work out as designed

I don't know if it's been posted already but this is a great breakdown of Mac's tape