Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
So it has come. We are now comparing Mac Jones to hall of famers.

My comp for him is still Andy Dalton. Shanahan can make him a pro bowler, but we will not go anywhere in the playoffs. IMO.

Same here, that's been my comp for a while. he's still the 4th best QB in the division and it wouldn't be remotely close.

Agree. Dalton/Carr safe floor, Cousins/Eli is the uninspiring ceiling. Floor is possibly lower on other guys, but ceiling is R. Wilson, Allen, Watson IMHO.

Originally posted by Nastastical:
So wait, when people criticize Fields for holding the ball too long, you guys blame the offense and the long developing option routes. When Lance is criticized for abandoning plays too quickly to tuck and run, it's because it's what is asked of him. Yet Mac Jones playing within his offense is a knock against him? Forget that this is basically a lot of the same ways Shanny likes to beat teams?

Back to my original point though. Mac Jones has a ton of tape showing him going through his progressions and finding the open man WHEN ASKED TO DO IT. To call him a one read QB is crap. If Jones is going to take heat for the offense he played in, then so should Trevor Lawrence.

No it's the same thing as the QBs, he's playing in the context of his offense. Which made him throw a f**k ton of bubble screens and balls at near the LOS. He ran basically a spread offense that got players in space.

you don't get to puff up Jones as some ridiculously accurate quarterback, when a TON of his passing attempts were not all these tight window throws.

no one is talking about Lawrence, I could careless about him. He like Jones ran a similar scheme though.

jones has been so romanticized in here that some people are tossing around Burrow or even Brady. It's a joke.

look you want to spend 3 1st rd picks that's your deal...in no world is he remotely close to worth that.

Originally posted by Dshearn:
Does anyone else chuckle at the he had WR's talking points?

Go to any game thread, all you hear is how 49er QBs cant find or hit the open WR.

So of course lets knock a guy who finds the open WR.

Its almost like the 49ers have been throwing day one picks at WRs and want a QB that will find them......

so much this

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by roasthawg:
The classic pocket passer still does dominate the nfl. Brady just won yet again. Yeah there's a run first qb that's been very successful in lamar. There's a couple more guys in deshaun and murray who are major dual threats but haven't won anything yet. There's the mahomes and rodgers and Russ wilson who scramble behind the los and make plays out of breakdowns that dominate as well.

Problem is in this draft there's one Aaron rodgers type in Wilson that won't be there at three. There's a John Elway type that will be going number one. So we're left with a dual threat type that hasn't won anything yet and honestly are either fields or Lance on par with Watson or murray as prospects? Or we can go pure pocket passer that constantly wins and is exactly what Kyle wants for his offense. He doesn't want some guy improvising on the fly. He wants someone hitting kittle/deebo/aiyuk in stride. That's why I think this is an easy call. Wish we were at one or two but those weren't available for a reason.

Love your 2nd paragraph

Wasn't Fields' accuracy amongst the best we've seen? Pretty sure his accuracy stats were as good as it can realistically get, based on some tweets comparing the top 4 prospects (they didn't have Mac's stats).

Pretty sure Fields as a prospect would be ahead of Kyler and Watson. People seem to act like Watson was picked 1st but that's revisionist history. There are reasons that he fell as a prospect. Fields isn't a run first guy.....

"I think it's Mac Jones, I do," Simms told Mike Florio on "PFT Live." "I don't know that. But just knowing my friend, knowing his history, knowing his school of thought to make that type of move, that's the one that makes sense to me. I think [Jones] makes sense because after Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson, and you know I think those are the top two guys in the draft with Zach Wilson being No. 1, [Jones} is the most NFL ready right now. I would say Zach Wilson and Mac Jones to me are more NFL-ready as far as reading NFL defenses and being able to do NFL offense type of stuff. You know, Trevor Lawrence was in a little bit more of a collegey offense. I'm not trying to disrespect him with that. I think within that Mac Jones is NFL ready right now and I think that's the kind of guy you trade up to No. 3 to get.

"You don't trade up for a Trey Lance with, 'Well, he's got great talent but we're not sure. It's a little bit of a gamble. There are some things we need to help him with and grow his technique and figure those type of things out.' I think that goes with Justin Fields, too. It's a little bit more of a project. So I don't think you trade up to No. 3 pick for that guy. I think you trade up for a guy where you go, 'I think if I had to that this guy could start and play this year, ready to go Week 1.' And that to me smells like Mac Jones because I expect Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence to be gone, of course."

In fact Simms, who likens Jones to Matt Ryan, would be stunnedif the 49ers didn't call Jones' name on draft day.

"I think he's sitting there going, 'I think this guy's just like that,'" Simms said. "He's talented like Matt Ryan, and he can dice you up with his arm and his brain, his decision making. And the athleticism is enough for him to do the boots and play-action for my offense. And if you give me a crack of more than two years with a quarterback like that, I think he thinks, 'I'm going to win a Super Bowl.' And I think that's ultimately why he makes that type of decision. And I like I said, I will be shocked if it's not Mac Jones at No. 3. I really would be."

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Mac Jones currently leads the nation with 13.3 yards per attempt.

Even more impressive?

Since his start in the Iron Bowl last year, Jones is averaging 15 yards per attempt in the second half.pic.twitter.com/ODUWtCHvfQ

— Connor O'Gara (@cjogara) October 12, 2020

huge window, meh ball placement

Lol stares at him the entire way, wide open

Have you watched his scouting videos?

Jones knows how to read the defense and knows if they are vulnerable to the play call.

He knows where the ball needs to go for the big play opportunities that come up in a game.

This is one of those plays. He manipulated the safety and helped get his WR wide open.

This is the trait KS dreams of. KS schemes this type of stuff up and gets pissed when the QB doesn't see it

Remember the story of KS seeing the defense and celebrating a TD and walking away before the ball was even snapped? That is what he wants his QB to see as well

I went and found the tape of that exact play

Go to the 18 min mark

https://youtu.be/R4ybhaFcgc8

Someone tell me why Shanny is going to fall in love with a QB who has no (can't find any) college tape running the boot ?

3 1st round picks for a guy who has no film running the boot? Shanny loves the boot .

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Someone tell me why Shanny is going to fall in love with a QB who has no (can't find any) college tape running the boot ?

3 1st round picks for a guy who has no film running the boot? Shanny loves the boot .

I thought someone posted we ran that 35 times all year last year?

I could be mistaken

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Someone tell me why Shanny is going to fall in love with a QB who has no (can't find any) college tape running the boot ?

3 1st round picks for a guy who has no film running the boot? Shanny loves the boot .

two 1st round picks

Originally posted by GoldenJoe:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by roasthawg:
The classic pocket passer still does dominate the nfl. Brady just won yet again. Yeah there's a run first qb that's been very successful in lamar. There's a couple more guys in deshaun and murray who are major dual threats but haven't won anything yet. There's the mahomes and rodgers and Russ wilson who scramble behind the los and make plays out of breakdowns that dominate as well.

Problem is in this draft there's one Aaron rodgers type in Wilson that won't be there at three. There's a John Elway type that will be going number one. So we're left with a dual threat type that hasn't won anything yet and honestly are either fields or Lance on par with Watson or murray as prospects? Or we can go pure pocket passer that constantly wins and is exactly what Kyle wants for his offense. He doesn't want some guy improvising on the fly. He wants someone hitting kittle/deebo/aiyuk in stride. That's why I think this is an easy call. Wish we were at one or two but those weren't available for a reason.

Love your 2nd paragraph

Wasn't Fields' accuracy amongst the best we've seen? Pretty sure his accuracy stats were as good as it can realistically get, based on some tweets comparing the top 4 prospects (they didn't have Mac's stats).

Pretty sure Fields as a prospect would be ahead of Kyler and Watson. People seem to act like Watson was picked 1st but that's revisionist history. There are reasons that he fell as a prospect. Fields isn't a run first guy.....

Love your second paragraph.

Originally posted by Tigerlaw:
Have you watched his scouting videos?

Jones knows how to read the defense and knows if they are vulnerable to the play call.

He knows where the ball needs to go for the big play opportunities that come up in a game.

This is one of those plays. He manipulated the safety and helped get his WR wide open.

This is the trait KS dreams of. KS schemes this type of stuff up and gets pissed when the QB doesn't see it

Remember the story of KS seeing the defense and celebrating a TD and walking away before the ball was even snapped? That is what he wants his QB to see as well

lol they don't watch the tape

I started out against Mac, but after watching every pass he threw in 2020, Im all in. Its hard to determine just how important escapability is, while scarifying Mac's elite ability to throw deep balls accurately to where a receiver is going to be. Ive never seen anyone do that consistently. I know that if its not Mac I only want Fields or Wilson. I would rank them, Wilson, Mac, Fields. I was dead set on Fields until I started digging into his 2019 tape, esp vs Michigan.. Hard to accept after watching Mac shred every SEC school over and over. Mac is a top 10 NFL QB rookie year in SF. Aiyuk's about to blow up with MAC or Wilson, thats for sure.

Fields' career accuracy ranked 7th overall in 0-10 yards, 6th in 11-19, 14th in 20+ attempts, 4th in throws past the line of scrimmage, 1st in throws over 10 yards, 3rd under pressure, 13th on 3rd/4th down, and 3rd-best touchdown rate-per-pass percentage, compared to 88 QBs"

Per Ian Wharton


Graphic is in link attached. I like Mac but looks like Fields processes fast enough to hit the open guys too.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
This thread is ridiculous.

We hire Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius, to win us Lombardi trophies, but we don't give him the quarterback that allows him to run his offense? We just don't seem to grasp this is not a physical position. All the great quarterbacks beat you with their heads, not their physical prowess. Physical specimens at the position are a dime a dozen. The guys that have minds so quick that no matter what you try to do to stop them, they make what you just did wrong. That, folks, is he way to win against the intelligent defenses of the NFL today.

Kyle can't trust Jimmy Garoppolo. The lack of trust runs so deep that he only threw eight times against Green Bay in the playoffs. Every game, he knows there will be a least a couple of WTF plays. He can't play his game of making you defend "every blade of grass", because everybody in the league knows Jimmy can't hit the deep ball. The world Screams "Lets Make Garoppolo Beat Us" Every Sunday. We Lost the Super Bowl because Jimmy couldn't hit Sanders when he beat his man by five yards. But, Mac is no good because his guys get open too often.

Mac Jones Never has WTF plays. Mac Jones hits the deep balls. Mac Jones is The Man that Shanahan can trust. If we can't see that, we are selfish in our biases and not good fans. Either trust Shanahan to go get his man, or now is the time to go find your next head coach. Not.

OK, yes, you need good enough physical traits. We can't do it with noodle arm Sean Hill. Mac's deep balls show he has enough arm strength. Oh, but he's slow. His 40 time is 4.79. Jimmy Garoppolo's is 4.97. Joe Montana's is 4.7. Tua's is 4.90. Hell, Jerry freakin Rice's is 4.71

How about the latest Super Bowl winning quarterbacks? Per Google:

Tom Brady 5.28

Patrick Mahomes 4.80 4.80, people. Does that surprise you?

Tom Brady 5.28

Nick foles 5.14

Tom Brady 5.28

Peyton Manning 4.80

Tom Brady 5.28

Russsell Wilson 4.55

Joe Flacco 4.84

Eli Manning 4.92

Aaron Rodgers 4.71

Drew Brees 4.83

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Eli Manning 4.92

Peyton Manning 4.80

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Tom Brady 5.28

TomBrady 5.28

Brad Johnson 5.02

Tom Brady 5.28

Trent Dilfer 4.7

So, 5 of the last 21 Super Bowls winners were quarterbacked by oh so slightly faster men. Less than 24 percent. Man, don't give me that loser. (Oh Wait, he's the National Champion?) Give me somebody more athletic, and I will develop his mental quickness to that of the top five out of 330 million.

Good Luck.

You can check my posts in this thread, I'm a big Jones fan. But giving up what we gave up to draft Jones doesn't make sense.

Yes he can run Kyle's offense. Yes he's possibly an upgrade over Jimmy, certainly contract wise but his ceiling is limited.

Especially if we're serious about keeping Jimmy then Jones simply doesn't make sense. Not with giving up all that draft capital.

You take the guy with elite traits who has shown enough where you're confident in his ability to grow as a passer and NFL QB.

Jones at 12, hell yes. Jones at 3 after that trade up just doesn't make sense. Kyle has talked about changing how he evaluates players. Fields checks all the boxes Kyle talked about. Accurate, big arm, great athletic ability and he's not a guy who looks to run if his first read is covered.

We'll see what happens but I just don't see us making that jump with Jones being the target.

It's just don't think it's as expensive as you may think. The general rule of thumb is that if you are paying a year later, you step it down one draft round, and two years makes two rounds. Also, I think on the basis of health alone, let alone the improved quarterback room and bench, we can conservatively expect to improve our record so as to be dropping our draft position from 12 to at least 20, and I think much more.

So this year, there is absolutely No compensation beyond our 12th pick. The third pick on the chart is 2200 points, and our 12th is 1200, so we owe Miami an even 1000 points.
Next year, we owe them a 1st and 3rd, which is worth a 2nd and 4th, and at the 20th pick, that's 380 and 64 points.
In 2023, we owe them a 1st, which two years later becomes a 3rd, or 170 points. The total is 614. That puts us ahead of the trade by 386 points, which in current year value is a 2nd rounder.

My point is we still have all our picks this year, so hopefully we'll still have those men we built up that fit Kyle's style of play over those next two years and more, and they're maturing with experience, and still on their rookie contracts. And of course losing Jimmy's salary this year or next will turn into players. And maybe we get a 2nd for Jimmy too.

That all makes for a great window to make a run imo.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Someone tell me why Shanny is going to fall in love with a QB who has no (can't find any) college tape running the boot ?

3 1st round picks for a guy who has no film running the boot? Shanny loves the boot .

I thought someone posted we ran that 35 times all year last year?

I could be mistaken

Hmmm how about bootleg plays in 2019 (Super Bowl year )

not sure what to think if it was 35 total plays , but Shanny schemes to set up a very big play off it routinely