Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by Joecool:
But does Kyle believe Lawrence and Wilson are better than the guy he wants?

from everything I have watched and read in the last 4 days, Jones has the best ball placement of any QB in this draft.

My guess is yes he does. Lawrence is a once a decade guy, John Elway status. Wilson, I forget who said it but he said he's talked to over a dozen nfl guys and every single one of them had him #2. Seems to be a pretty solid consensus on one and two. Three is where it gets tricky.

I don't think very many people are saying that Jones is the clear cut answer, but rather that who the best option for us is very much up to debate, and if we do decide to pick Jones he's still a QB to be excited about.

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Joecool:
But does Kyle believe Lawrence and Wilson are better than the guy he wants?

from everything I have watched and read in the last 4 days, Jones has the best ball placement of any QB in this draft.

My guess is yes he does. Lawrence is a once a decade guy, John Elway status. Wilson, I forget who said it but he said he's talked to over a dozen nfl guys and every single one of them had him #2. Seems to be a pretty solid consensus on one and two. Three is where it gets tricky.

Wilson would be the number one guy if Lawrence wasn't in this draft or if he was 3" taller and 20 lbs bigger. But Wilson has rare throwing ability. It's not hard to see.

Originally posted by Young2Owens:
I don't think very many people are saying that Jones is the clear cut answer, but rather that who the best option for us is very much up to debate, and if we do decide to pick Jones he's still a QB to be excited about.

This is where I am. From reading the tea leaves available to me at the moment Mac is my guess. I'll be excited about whichever qb Kyle likes enough to put it all on the line for. He's the brains of this operation. I'm just having fun playing the guessing game at the moment

He's Sam Bradford with less durability concerns. That's what I see when I watch him in college and Bradford was never going to be a top 5 QB as a pro, tools were too limited.

Originally posted by GoldenJoe:
He's Sam Bradford with less durability concerns. That's what I see when I watch him in college and Bradford was never going to be a top 5 QB as a pro, tools were too limited.

Imo, not a bad comp, tho I think Jones is a slightly better prospect because of better mechanics, both when clean, and under pressure. Jones fits the 49ers offense to a T, IF we are to assume that Shanny still wants the passing game to revolve around passes at or behind the LOS, or between the numbers in the short to intermediate levels of the field.

Originally posted by GoldenJoe:
Fields' career accuracy ranked 7th overall in 0-10 yards, 6th in 11-19, 14th in 20+ attempts, 4th in throws past the line of scrimmage, 1st in throws over 10 yards, 3rd under pressure, 13th on 3rd/4th down, and 3rd-best touchdown rate-per-pass percentage, compared to 88 QBs"

Per Ian Wharton

Finished charting Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Zac Wilson and Trey Lance for catchable passes. I compared to my database of 88 QBs and color-coded the results into quartiles. Green is top-25%, yellow 26-50%, orange is 51-75%, red is bottom 25%. Film and numbers match well IMO pic.twitter.com/l2m8zOePcL

— Ian Wharton (@NFLFilmStudy) February 27, 2021

Graphic is in link attached. I like Mac but looks like Fields processes fast enough to hit the open guys too.

Being accurate and a great processor aren't the same thing. When we say great processor, we mean he sees it quickly and hits it quickly. You can see it late and still deliver a dime. That's not to say that's what happened here with Field's accuracy. But the two aren't the same.

Side note: Fields is definitely very accurate.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by GoldenJoe:
Fields' career accuracy ranked 7th overall in 0-10 yards, 6th in 11-19, 14th in 20+ attempts, 4th in throws past the line of scrimmage, 1st in throws over 10 yards, 3rd under pressure, 13th on 3rd/4th down, and 3rd-best touchdown rate-per-pass percentage, compared to 88 QBs"

Per Ian Wharton

Finished charting Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Zac Wilson and Trey Lance for catchable passes. I compared to my database of 88 QBs and color-coded the results into quartiles. Green is top-25%, yellow 26-50%, orange is 51-75%, red is bottom 25%. Film and numbers match well IMO pic.twitter.com/l2m8zOePcL

— Ian Wharton (@NFLFilmStudy) February 27, 2021

Graphic is in link attached. I like Mac but looks like Fields processes fast enough to hit the open guys too.

Being accurate and a great processor aren't the same thing. When we say great processor, we mean he sees it quickly and hits it quickly. You can see it late and still deliver a dime. That's not to say that's what happened here with Field's accuracy. But the two aren't the same.

Side note: Fields is definitely very accurate.

Sounds like you're struggling to hold onto your argument when confronted with actual facts and numbers. If you're processing information slowly, then you're going to be late on throws and will have incompletions... the two go hand in hand.

Ohio State runs a lot of deep combination routes which requires patience... having faith that your guys will get open correlates with him holding onto the ball too long at times.

the way mac delivers the ball so the receiver doesnt get lit up and can protect themselves is next level

Mike Shanahan drafted two QB's in the first round, RG3 (doesn't count) and Cutler in 2006. However, in 2006 Shanahan's QB darling was Matt Leinart, who went one pick ahead of Denver. The draft profiles of Leinart and Jones are ridiculously similar.

"Leinart is one of the most polished passers to come out of the college ranks since Peyton Manning. His ability to read defenses is second to none at the college level."
"Matt Leinart is the Tom Brady of college football."
"There is nothing physically that stands out about Leinart. He can make any throw needed, but he does not have a cannon. He is mobile, but he's not a standout athlete and is not a threat to tuck it."

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
Does anyone else chuckle at the he had WR's talking points?

Go to any game thread, all you hear is how 49er QBs cant find or hit the open WR.

So of course lets knock a guy who finds the open WR.

Its almost like the 49ers have been throwing day one picks at WRs and want a QB that will find them......

There is a difference with hitting a wide open 1st read a lot of the time (Mac) , vs finding an open WR

I feel like I should post this gif every time someone makes this uninformed claim. There are many others, but I'm too lazy to make another one.

Tight window, sure. How many college WRs make that grab? #6Smith. That's what I see when I watch that. Lol

Yeah, it was a good catch. And an even better throw. Lots of NFL WRs make that catch -- nearly every guy who is number one on his team's depth chart. Maybe half of NFL QBs make that throw. That was NOT the WR bailing out the QB like you want to pretend. That was a PERFECT, high level, difficult throw, put the only place it could have been, and the WR making the only catch he could have.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
Does anyone else chuckle at the he had WR's talking points?

Go to any game thread, all you hear is how 49er QBs cant find or hit the open WR.

So of course lets knock a guy who finds the open WR.

Its almost like the 49ers have been throwing day one picks at WRs and want a QB that will find them......

There is a difference with hitting a wide open 1st read a lot of the time (Mac) , vs finding an open WR

I feel like I should post this gif every time someone makes this uninformed claim. There are many others, but I'm too lazy to make another one.

Tight window, sure. How many college WRs make that grab? #6Smith. That's what I see when I watch that. Lol

Careful , he will now think you are saying he can't make any tight window throws .

Uh, no. What we have is two guys doing everything they can to minimize what was objectively an eye-popping throw. Denial isn't just a river.

Jones is good. He has excellent accuracy. That's a fact. Now keep finding ludicrous ways to minimize that fact.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
A couple of decent throws in his career does not make him worth spending 3 first round picks.

One, it's not "a couple." It's CONSISTENT and REGULAR. Second, that's another debate. It could be argued that none of these are worth 3 firsts on the grounds that at least one of them will be two places lower in the draft order, and probably even lower than that because at least two of these teams in the top 7 or so aren't taking QBs.

But there is absolutely NOT some wide gulf between Jones, Lance, and Fields. These three guys are, overall, almost the same in terms of total value. What we have here is a bunch of guys who forgot that QBs win with their brains and their accuracy in the NFL, and mobility is just a nice bonus that helps on those plays where the defense completely wins. And no, this doesn't mean I'm calling Lance or Fields dumb. Far from it. What I'm saying is their athleticism isn't nearly as big an advantage as you guys think it is. It's something that will make a difference on just a few plays per game. On every other play, what's between the ears and the right arms are what decide things. And in those categories Jones is every bit their equal or more, depending on the specific sub-category (enough, I'd argue, to make up for those few plays per game).

In other words: CALM DOWN. Even if Shanahan picks Jones, this team will be fine. If we drew straws on which of these three QBs we took, each and every one would do fine here.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
No it's the same thing as the QBs, he's playing in the context of his offense. Which made him throw a f**k ton of bubble screens and balls at near the LOS. He ran basically a spread offense that got players in space.

you don't get to puff up Jones as some ridiculously accurate quarterback, when a TON of his passing attempts were not all these tight window throws.

no one is talking about Lawrence, I could careless about him. He like Jones ran a similar scheme though.

jones has been so romanticized in here that some people are tossing around Burrow or even Brady. It's a joke.

look you want to spend 3 1st rd picks that's your deal...in no world is he remotely close to worth that.

That isn't what's going on here. What's going on is you guys are talking about how Jones is a 3rd round pick and Shanahan needs to be fired if he takes him. We're saying, "No, Jones is a good QB, and Shanahan will have success with him. As he will the other ones."

Again , who is saying he is a 3rd round pick ?

I don't remember, maybe NY. The argument was that if he wasn't on Alabama he'd be day three or something to that affect. Basically discounting everything he does really well because he has good teammates. Like that throw I posted. The WR made a good catch. That has NOTHING to do with the perfect touch and ball placement that got the ball there... as if the WR catching the ball somehow magically affects the perfect trajectory of it.

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Joe Burrow had a better and more talented LSU team in 2019 than Mac Jones at Alabama in 2020. Agree or Disagree?? LSU tied the NFL record with 14 total players drafted last year. The Mac Jones surrounded by super talent argument needs to be put to rest.

They both had insane groups. Clemson and osu weren't too bad either. Mac put up absolutely insane numbers... The best we've ever seen at the college level. He also didn't lose a game. So at least he performed up to expectations if nothing else lol.

This thing is always a crap shoot. Gotta get the guy your coach believes in. Shannahan will never be more motivated to have a guy succeed then whoever he drafts at number three. This is his career on the line, not ours. It's gonna be fun to watch, for me at least.

That's my favorite stat right there!