Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by Jcool:
Winning Super Bowls? Tom Brady? Who was drafted in 2000. If you can tell me he is 2007 Tom Brady... Sign me up... But those are some low odds.

Does it matter when he was drafted? Tom won this year. It's not like he learned how to run a 4.4 in the past decade.

The league is going to trend towards mobile qb's as that's what's coming up in college it doesn't mean pocket qb's are dead though.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I'm saying there is no objective answer — at least not now.

As for me, I'd give those many picks to get to 3 and have the chance to pick one of these three. Then I'd spend a month vigorously studying them to determine which is overall the best for my team and system, and then whichever I took I'd deem worth it.

But I am saying NO to the notion that Jones can't be worth it just because he doesn't have elite athleticism or an absolute rocket arm. As I've said to you numerous times, those are not the only traits that rarely improve. A QB wins FANS with his athleticism. He wins GAMES with his brain.

What do you mean there's no objective answer? It's not some deep thought out question.. would you give up 3 1sts rd picks and a 3rd rd pick for Jones? I mean that's damn near what we were talking about giving up for Watson earlier.

So no you wouldn't? is that what you're saying? I don't care about winning with your brain or whatever. It's a simple yes I think he's the next Peyton Manning or some s**t...or it's no, I don't think he is (because that's what he has to be to justify it).

it's fine to say you like him. Do you like him enough to give up all that? That's all I'm asking.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
what we gave up is too much for any rookie qb, but i get why kyle did it.

i dont think mac is bad, ive poured over his tape and dude can play. i can see why kyle would live to coach him.

So would you give up 3 1sts for him over Lance/fields/Wilson?

his film isn't amazing to me. He's efficient under structure which is nice...Jimmy did the same thing.

Imo if you're one meaningful attribute is that you can run your coaches offense that you've got to sit back and learn for three years before playing, I'm not really that impressed. Every single NFL QB should know how to do that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
what we gave up is too much for any rookie qb, but i get why kyle did it.

i dont think mac is bad, ive poured over his tape and dude can play. i can see why kyle would live to coach him.

So would you give up 3 1sts for him over Lance/fields/Wilson?

his film isn't amazing to me. He's efficient under structure which is nice...Jimmy did the same thing.

I wouldn't give up one 1st for him. Lol. Rater take a chance on Mills

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That ain't why we lost dude. I really don't want to track down the plays again, but we lost because Jimmy COULDN'T run the playbook except for the one-read plays. In particular, on two red zone third downs, Jimmy FAILED to run the playbook, because he FAILED to throw it to the wide open guy past the sticks. He locked on to his first pre-snap read, and failed to adjust post-snap -- like he FREQUENTLY does, and the result is we left EIGHT points on the board in a game we were up by ten with half a quarter to go. Turn that ten point lead into an eighteen point lead and let's see what happens.

One side note though: One of those third downs would have required a good, hard pass to a curl. A good QB could make it. Jimmy perhaps could not. BUT... there was an opening for an EASY scramble for the first down if our QB had any speed at all. So yeah, all three of these rookie QBs would have picked up that particular first down, either by quickly finding the guy and throwing, or stealing the scramble yards the defense left open.

Well I'm not down on Jimmy but I know we got beat that game because even with the team we had we got beat by a superior talent under center. One that could beat even our defense

Jimmy beat Drew Brees in a shootout. He won a ton of games. Jimmy is good but we need GREAT with an immense ceiling for what we just gave up. Three first round picks!

Let's take that chance at three and draft one of the consensus top three QBs. Lawrence Wilson Fields

Someone's best game of their career isn't an appropriate place to judge how good they are. Steve only threw six TDs one time.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Winning Super Bowls? Tom Brady? Who was drafted in 2000. If you can tell me he is 2007 Tom Brady... Sign me up... But those are some low odds.

Does it matter when he was drafted? Tom won this year. It's not like he learned how to run a 4.4 in the past decade.

Trying to use maybe the best player of all time to make a point on a draft prospect probably isn't going to go in your favor.

Originally posted by pd24:
I wouldn't give up one 1st for him. Lol. Rater take a chance on Mills

Same.

I mean if your one great attribute is that you can run your coaches scheme after sitting the bench for 3 yrs well, I'm not that impressed. Every NFL QB should be able to do that. Kyle talks about how there only 32 starting QB in the world, more than half of them are not anything special...do we seriously think Jones has a chance to be top 5 because that's what that trade up is representing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
What do you mean there's no objective answer? It's not some deep thought out question.. would you give up 3 1sts rd picks and a 3rd rd pick for Jones? I mean that's damn near what we were talking about giving up for Watson earlier.

So no you wouldn't? is that what you're saying? I don't care about winning with your brain or whatever. It's a simple yes I think he's the next Peyton Manning or some s**t...or it's no, I don't think he is (because that's what he has to be to justify it).

it's fine to say you like him. Do you like him enough to give up all that? That's all I'm asking.

This. I could live with Jones at 12 but when you trade 3 1sts you can't come home with a system QB. The pick has to be Fields. I'm not sh*tting on Jones because there's a chance Jets take Fields and at that point I'm more open to him but it's a no brainer between Jones and Fields.

You traded up for a superstar.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pd24:
I wouldn't give up one 1st for him. Lol. Rater take a chance on Mills

Same.

I mean if your one great attribute is that you can run your coaches scheme after sitting the bench for 3 yrs well, I'm not that impressed. Every NFL QB should be able to do that. Kyle talks about how there only 32 starting QB in the world, more than half of them are not anything special...do we seriously think Jones has a chance to be top 5 because that's what that trade up is representing.

basically if Jones is the pick, the only way that Lynch and Kyle can spin it is if they interviewed him on the whiteboard for 3 hours and determined that he has Manning / Brady level of intelligence.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by susweel:
This guy is not worth a 1st round pick.

Still have him graded as a 2nd rounder since January. Thought he would be a nice pick up at #43. Now it is just getting absolutely ridiculous.

I mean, he could be good but yeah- take a step back. Everyone is hyping him up. He's solid but not spectacular.

Meantime Fields ability is off the charts, but he relies on his ability too much.... wtf does that even mean lol

It means in the NFL the advantage his athleticism gives him will be less pronounced, and that in order to have success, on most plays he'll have to win in the pocket.

Originally posted by Jcool:
Trying to use maybe the best player of all time to make a point on a draft prospect probably isn't going to go in your favor.

Nick Foles won a SB a few years back too. Pocket qb's are still the last man standing most of the time. Mahomes and KC is the only exception and we handed that one to them.

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:
All I really care about at this point is who throws the best deep ball. We haven't had that for years, and Kyle wants to dial it up. We'd be seeking #7 this year if Jimmy could, and I'm sure that's not lost on Kyle. I've fallen in love with Fields over his highlight reel, Wilson will likely be gone, I think Lance is a 2+ year project. So how is Jones' deep ball?

Better than Jimmy's.

Shanny sees his new bae

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Trying to use maybe the best player of all time to make a point on a draft prospect probably isn't going to go in your favor.

Nick Foles won a SB a few years back too. Pocket qb's are still the last man standing most of the time. Mahomes and KC is the only exception and we handed that one to them.

So why didnt the 49ers trade for Nick Foles?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I'm saying there is no objective answer — at least not now.

As for me, I'd give those many picks to get to 3 and have the chance to pick one of these three. Then I'd spend a month vigorously studying them to determine which is overall the best for my team and system, and then whichever I took I'd deem worth it.

But I am saying NO to the notion that Jones can't be worth it just because he doesn't have elite athleticism or an absolute rocket arm. As I've said to you numerous times, those are not the only traits that rarely improve. A QB wins FANS with his athleticism. He wins GAMES with his brain.

What do you mean there's no objective answer? It's not some deep thought out question.. would you give up 3 1sts rd picks and a 3rd rd pick for Jones? I mean that's damn near what we were talking about giving up for Watson earlier.

So no you wouldn't? is that what you're saying? I don't care about winning with your brain or whatever. It's a simple yes I think he's the next Peyton Manning or some s**t...or it's no, I don't think he is (because that's what he has to be to justify it).

it's fine to say you like him. Do you like him enough to give up all that? That's all I'm asking.

And I'm saying I'm not sure yet. In THIS draft under these circumstances, I would give up 3 picks to have the chance to pick one of the three, because each is good enough upon my current investigation to be our QB for ten years. But there are THREE of them, and I can only pick one.

I need to look at them more. I need to find out a good estimation for the bust chance of each of them. So far, in most likely to bust to least likely, it's Lance, Fields, Jones. But that is not NEARLY good enough. Lance's bust odds might be the highest, but it still might be low enough that his other factors make him worth it.

And regarding Jones, what he is great at, you've argued the other guys could conceivably improve their field vision and processing. But so could Jones, and if Jones gets significantly better at those things, he'll be approaching Tom Brady and Peyton Manning territory.

That is yet one more reason why I would need to put in more study.

So, if you want a simple answer: I'd trade those picks for ONE of them, but because there is three I need to gain more information.

Side note: If Lance and Fields aren't there I think the trade up might have cost less, paradoxically, precisely because so many people put so much value into physical ability. But it's nonsensical to consider a situation where only one of them are there, because that is not our situation.