Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by krizay:

You're treating this like all things are equal.

#1 we likely will have to give up assets for Wilson. Whereas you shouldn't for Jones.

#2 yes Wilson has a stronger arm and faster legs. Mac Jones is a better passer and seems to be a more heady player.

If all things were equal meaning they both were on the board without trading up and Kyle chose Wilson ahead of Jones, I'd understand. I'd also understand if he chose Jones over Wilson.

People watch Wilson and see Mahomes because he can make some unhuman passes. But when you watched Mahomes you seen one of the best pure passers you'd ever seen. EVERY pass seemed effortless.

You (well I) don't see that with Wilson. Not saying he sucks or anything but he's closer to Mac Jones than he is Patrick Mahomes (as a prospect)

Couldn't disagree more. What makes you think Jones is a better passer and more heady player?

My observation

With today´s pass-rush if you want to succeed with a pure-pocket QB you´ll need these 2 things:

1-The new Peyton Manning.
2-A great O-line in pass-pro.

Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Murray, Wilson are the most dangerous QB´s of the league and they all have legs and they all are young. I don´t talk about Jackson because he isn´t real QB.

If we talk about Brees or Roethlisberger as great pocket-passers well they are 40-year old guys.

What we need is a QB that can make things with his arm with enough mobility to make plays with his legs if necessary and if we draft Mac Jones we´ll need him to be really really really good playing from the pocket and we´ll also need a great O-line at the same time and we know we can´t build a great O-line in 1 or 2 off-seasons..

Originally posted by Monsterniner:

With today´s pass-rush if you want to succeed with a pure-pocket QB you´ll need these 2 things:

1-The new Peyton Manning.
2-A great O-line in pass-pro.

Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Murray, Wilson are the most dangerous QB´s of the league and they all have legs and they all are young. I don´t talk about Jackson because he isn´t real QB.

If we talk about Brees or Roethlisberger as great pocket-passers well they are 40-year old guys.

What we need is a QB that can make things with his arm with enough mobility to make plays with his legs if necessary and if we draft Mac Jones we´ll need him to be really really really good playing from the pocket and we´ll also need a great O-line at the same time and we know we can´t build a great O-line in 1 or 2 off-seasons..

Agreed, I want nothing to do with a pocket passer immobile qb unless he becomes the next Manning or Brady and that's not happening, even Lawrence is mobile. It's time to get a qb who can turn jail breaks into highlight plays and make defenses defend every second

I would rate Slovis as my #2 after Trevor, too bad he's only a Sophomore.

Originally posted by Brooklyn9er:
I would rate Slovis as my #2 after Trevor, too bad he's only a Sophomore.

rate him 2nd best QB after Trevor, NOW ???

I feel like both Jones and Wilson are upgrades over Jimmy.

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:

Originally posted by Monsterniner:
With today´s pass-rush if you want to succeed with a pure-pocket QB you´ll need these 2 things:

1-The new Peyton Manning.
2-A great O-line in pass-pro.

Watson, Mahomes, Allen, Murray, Wilson are the most dangerous QB´s of the league and they all have legs and they all are young. I don´t talk about Jackson because he isn´t real QB.

If we talk about Brees or Roethlisberger as great pocket-passers well they are 40-year old guys.

What we need is a QB that can make things with his arm with enough mobility to make plays with his legs if necessary and if we draft Mac Jones we´ll need him to be really really really good playing from the pocket and we´ll also need a great O-line at the same time and we know we can´t build a great O-line in 1 or 2 off-seasons..

Agreed, I want nothing to do with a pocket passer immobile qb unless he becomes the next Manning or Brady and that's not happening, even Lawrence is mobile. It's time to get a qb who can turn jail breaks into highlight plays and make defenses defend every second

I think that Mahomes doesn't need his legs to be great. And I don't think Allen does either.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

I think that Mahomes doesn't need his legs to be great. And I don't think Allen does either.

It's just part of the bigger picture...I watch those dudes take a shot gun play and run freaking backwards like 10 more yards to avoid pressure/give his receivers and throw a dime 30 yards downfield.

Arm strength & mobility...give me that

Originally posted by krizay:

You're treating this like all things are equal.

#1 we likely will have to give up assets for Wilson. Whereas you shouldn't for Jones.

#2 yes Wilson has a stronger arm and faster legs. Mac Jones is a better passer and seems to be a more heady player.

If all things were equal meaning they both were on the board without trading up and Kyle chose Wilson ahead of Jones, I'd understand. I'd also understand if he chose Jones over Wilson.

People watch Wilson and see Mahomes because he can make some unhuman passes. But when you watched Mahomes you seen one of the best pure passers you'd ever seen. EVERY pass seemed effortless.

You (well I) don't see that with Wilson. Not saying he sucks or anything but he's closer to Mac Jones than he is Patrick Mahomes (as a prospect)

I don't dislike Jones, I also don't care about giving up draft capital to get who they feel is the better QB with the higher ceiling.

I simply disagree that Wilson isn't a "heady" QB in his own right. I don't even know how you come to that conclusion overall? Maybe he looks for a bigger throw once in a great while, there's plenty of proper reads and very few head scratching throws and INTs on his part too.

I for one am not labeling him Mahomes 2.0 or anything like that...that was never my comp for him anyway. Yes he's makes some crazy throws and has + arm talent. He's not Mahomes. So no reason to bring that up with me

Put Mac Jones in BYU and Wilson in Bama and you think the results would be the same?

IMO there is tiers with these QB prospects and Jones is a tier below Wilson. Still like Jones. SF would have to use their 1st rd pick on him if they want him.

I'll take my shot on trying to land/move up for one of the top 4 QBs in this draft. I want high ceiling talent.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I think that Mahomes doesn't need his legs to be great. And I don't think Allen does either.

It's just part of the bigger picture...I watch those dudes take a shot gun play and run freaking backwards like 10 more yards to avoid pressure/give his receivers and throw a dime 30 yards downfield.

Arm strength & mobility...give me that

I'll give you that, but there's a world of distance between someone who can move in the pocket and someone who is an actual dual threat. Murray and Jackson and those guys are fundamentally different from Mahomes. Allen can beat you with his legs better than Mahomes for sure (as a runner), but he's also primarily a pocket passer. He just has wheels. As for Mahomes, he's slower than Molasses in January. Well, that's an exaggeration, but he is not going to beat anyone on the field in a race except the offensive linemen and defensive tackles. He's just nimble.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't dislike Jones, I also don't care about giving up draft capital to get who they feel is the better QB with the higher ceiling.

I simply disagree that Wilson isn't a "heady" QB in his own right. I don't even know how you come to that conclusion overall? Maybe he looks for a bigger throw once in a great while, there's plenty of proper reads and very few head scratching throws and INTs on his part too.

I for one am not labeling him Mahomes 2.0 or anything like that...that was never my comp for him anyway. Yes he's makes some crazy throws and has + arm talent. He's not Mahomes. So no reason to bring that up with me

Put Mac Jones in BYU and Wilson in Bama and you think the results would be the same?

IMO there is tiers with these QB prospects and Jones is a tier below Wilson. Still like Jones. SF would have to use their 1st rd pick on him if they want him.

I'll take my shot on trying to land/move up for one of the top 4 QBs in this draft. I want high ceiling talent.

Jones is okay but I don't see him as being the QB that many of us want. He lacks the mobility and his arm is accurate but not really strong. He wouldn't really be an upgrade except he would be younger, cheaper and probably healthier.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I don't dislike Jones, I also don't care about giving up draft capital to get who they feel is the better QB with the higher ceiling.

I simply disagree that Wilson isn't a "heady" QB in his own right. I don't even know how you come to that conclusion overall? Maybe he looks for a bigger throw once in a great while, there's plenty of proper reads and very few head scratching throws and INTs on his part too.

I for one am not labeling him Mahomes 2.0 or anything like that...that was never my comp for him anyway. Yes he's makes some crazy throws and has + arm talent. He's not Mahomes. So no reason to bring that up with me

Put Mac Jones in BYU and Wilson in Bama and you think the results would be the same?

IMO there is tiers with these QB prospects and Jones is a tier below Wilson. Still like Jones. SF would have to use their 1st rd pick on him if they want him.

I'll take my shot on trying to land/move up for one of the top 4 QBs in this draft. I want high ceiling talent.

Jones is okay but I don't see him as being the QB that many of us want. He lacks the mobility and his arm is accurate but not really strong. He wouldn't really be an upgrade except he would be younger, cheaper and probably healthier.

I still think he's an upgrade. A slight one, but the price drop alone is worth it even if he's just as good.

Except for the opportunity cost of a 1st round pick, of course.

I'm not a QB genius, for those that remember I really really like Rick Mire. I though he was going to be the next Joe Montana. He was second over all pick in the draft and not even close to being the next Joe Montana. He turn out to be a journeyman QB team to team. Saying that, I like both QBs Mac Jones and Zack Wilson. I think Wilson is a much better runner and has a stronger arm. I think Jones has good arm strength and throws a nicer pass and he plays much tougher competition like Clemson. I would draft ether.
The draft? right now 49er are 5-7 pick 15ish do you trade up to get Wilson or stay and hope Jones is there at 15? does jones fall to the bottom of the first round like Aron Rogers and Jackson did?

Originally posted by dlance:
I'm not a QB genius, for those that remember I really really like Rick Mire. I though he was going to be the next Joe Montana. He was second over all pick in the draft and not even close to being the next Joe Montana. He turn out to be a journeyman QB team to team. Saying that, I like both QBs Mac Jones and Zack Wilson. I think Wilson is a much better runner and has a stronger arm. I think Jones has good arm strength and throws a nicer pass and he plays much tougher competition like Clemson. I would draft ether.
The draft? right now 49er are 5-7 pick 15ish do you trade up to get Wilson or stay and hope Jones is there at 15? does jones fall to the bottom of the first round like Aron Rogers and Jackson did?

I'd trade up for Wilson probably, or try to trade for Stafford.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

I'll give you that, but there's a world of distance between someone who can move in the pocket and someone who is an actual dual threat. Murray and Jackson and those guys are fundamentally different from Mahomes. Allen can beat you with his legs better than Mahomes for sure (as a runner), but he's also primarily a pocket passer. He just has wheels. As for Mahomes, he's slower than Molasses in January. Well, that's an exaggeration, but he is not going to beat anyone on the field in a race except the offensive linemen and defensive tackles. He's just nimble.

I'm not asking for actual a QB who runs as much as he throws...I wouldn't say Allen has wheels (4.75 40 time) Mahomes ran a 4.8. They are mobile though they have no problem moving, extending plays and zone reads can actually be used with them if need be. Just another option to add to the offense.