Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by Jcool:
Trying to use maybe the best player of all time to make a point on a draft prospect probably isn't going to go in your favor.

The point is still the same, it only takes one. Imagine if the Chiefs had looked at Mahomes and said "you know we like him a lot and we believe we can win a Superbowl with this guy but no Air Raid QB has had success in the NFL like...ever, sooo...pass."

In the end, it only matters that one person thinks a player is good enough. If that is what happens with Shanahan and Jones then I hope Jones turns out to be a lot like Matt Ryan, a dependable pocket QB that you can win with for a decade or more. Ultimately though its out of our hands, so whether the fans are happy or unhappy, Shanahan is gonna do what he's gonna do.

Mac Dre...Mac Jones

Originally posted by Heroism:
Shanny sees his new bae

Oh no...he puts his hands on his waist thumbs-in-front...

Originally posted by TyCore:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Shanny sees his new bae

Oh no...he puts his hands on his waist thumbs-in-front...

At least it's not his wrists bent outward

Originally posted by BOI49er:
This thread is ridiculous.

We hire Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius, to win us Lombardi trophies, but we don't give him the quarterback that allows him to run his offense? We just don't seem to grasp this is not a physical position. All the great quarterbacks beat you with their heads, not their physical prowess. Physical specimens at the position are a dime a dozen. The guys that have minds so quick that no matter what you try to do to stop them, they make what you just did wrong. That, folks, is he way to win against the intelligent defenses of the NFL today.

Kyle can't trust Jimmy Garoppolo. The lack of trust runs so deep that he only threw eight times against Green Bay in the playoffs. Every game, he knows there will be a least a couple of WTF plays. He can't play his game of making you defend "every blade of grass", because everybody in the league knows Jimmy can't hit the deep ball. The world Screams "Lets Make Garoppolo Beat Us" Every Sunday. We Lost the Super Bowl because Jimmy couldn't hit Sanders when he beat his man by five yards. But, Mac is no good because his guys get open too often.

Mac Jones Never has WTF plays. Mac Jones hits the deep balls. Mac Jones is The Man that Shanahan can trust. If we can't see that, we are selfish in our biases and not good fans. Either trust Shanahan to go get his man, or now is the time to go find your next head coach. Not.

OK, yes, you need good enough physical traits. We can't do it with noodle arm Sean Hill. Mac's deep balls show he has enough arm strength. Oh, but he's slow. His 40 time is 4.79. Jimmy Garoppolo's is 4.97. Joe Montana's is 4.7. Tua's is 4.90. Hell, Jerry freakin Rice's is 4.71

How about the latest Super Bowl winning quarterbacks? Per Google:

Tom Brady 5.28

Patrick Mahomes 4.80 4.80, people. Does that surprise you?

Tom Brady 5.28

Nick foles 5.14

Tom Brady 5.28

Peyton Manning 4.80

Tom Brady 5.28

Russsell Wilson 4.55

Joe Flacco 4.84

Eli Manning 4.92

Aaron Rodgers 4.71

Drew Brees 4.83

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Eli Manning 4.92

Peyton Manning 4.80

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Tom Brady 5.28

TomBrady 5.28

Brad Johnson 5.02

Tom Brady 5.28

Trent Dilfer 4.7

So, 5 of the last 21 Super Bowls winners were quarterbacked by oh so slightly faster men. Less than 24 percent. Man, don't give me that loser. (Oh Wait, he's the National Champion?) Give me somebody more athletic, and I will develop his mental quickness to that of the top five out of 330 million.

Good Luck.

Where's the dual threat Super Bowl winners this century? Let's count them.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Shanny sees his new bae

Mood music for that photo:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Shanny sees his new bae

And then

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
PFF isn't the end all be all of scouts. They are useful. Jones' arm strength is enough to make every conceivable throw that any coach will design.

But as for the ranking, that's OUR ranking (fans). IF Jones is "objectively 5th," it's not by much.

But the point is OUR ranking is a fart in the wind.

If you're giving up three first round picks you should be getting a guy who can do more than just execute the play design. For three first round picks you should be able to get a guy who can still make a positive out of a failed play design.
But yes you are right, OUR ranking is a fart in the wind.
That's why I'm leaning on common sense and sites like PFF (Who at least I know watches and grades every single play of his ) and cbs draft and nfl.com etc. Who almost all had Mac Jones last out of the five quarterbacks before the trade.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Jcool:
Trying to use maybe the best player of all time to make a point on a draft prospect probably isn't going to go in your favor.

The point is still the same, it only takes one. Imagine if the Chiefs had looked at Mahomes and said "you know we like him a lot and we believe we can win a Superbowl with this guy but no Air Raid QB has had success in the NFL like...ever, sooo...pass."

In the end, it only matters that one person thinks a player is good enough. If that is what happens with Shanahan and Jones then I hope Jones turns out to be a lot like Matt Ryan, a dependable pocket QB that you can win with for a decade or more. Ultimately though its out of our hands, so whether the fans are happy or unhappy, Shanahan is gonna do what he's gonna do.

Why are you comparing a system with traits? No one is knocking Jones for the offense Alabama runs. If Mahomes had the arm strength of Kliff Kingsbury you know who doesn't draft him... Kansas City.

Originally posted by Jcool:
Why are you comparing a system with traits? No one is knocking Jones for the offense Alabama runs. If Mahomes had the arm strength of Kliff Kingsbury you know who doesn't draft him... Kansas City.

Its not any different from comparing a certain style of passer. A lot of pocket passers are going to fail, just like a lot of mobile passers fail. Overall the college game and high school games have shifted to favoring fewer pro style QB's so you're going to see less of them coming out of college but ultimately, you're still judging these guys as individuals.

And in the end, when you look at who is playing in and winning SB's, its still largely pocket passers which says that there's still room for traditional pocket passing quarterbacks as well as newer age super mobile passers.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
This thread is ridiculous.

We hire Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius, to win us Lombardi trophies, but we don't give him the quarterback that allows him to run his offense? We just don't seem to grasp this is not a physical position. All the great quarterbacks beat you with their heads, not their physical prowess. Physical specimens at the position are a dime a dozen. The guys that have minds so quick that no matter what you try to do to stop them, they make what you just did wrong. That, folks, is he way to win against the intelligent defenses of the NFL today.

Kyle can't trust Jimmy Garoppolo. The lack of trust runs so deep that he only threw eight times against Green Bay in the playoffs. Every game, he knows there will be a least a couple of WTF plays. He can't play his game of making you defend "every blade of grass", because everybody in the league knows Jimmy can't hit the deep ball. The world Screams "Lets Make Garoppolo Beat Us" Every Sunday. We Lost the Super Bowl because Jimmy couldn't hit Sanders when he beat his man by five yards. But, Mac is no good because his guys get open too often.

Mac Jones Never has WTF plays. Mac Jones hits the deep balls. Mac Jones is The Man that Shanahan can trust. If we can't see that, we are selfish in our biases and not good fans. Either trust Shanahan to go get his man, or now is the time to go find your next head coach. Not.

OK, yes, you need good enough physical traits. We can't do it with noodle arm Sean Hill. Mac's deep balls show he has enough arm strength. Oh, but he's slow. His 40 time is 4.79. Jimmy Garoppolo's is 4.97. Joe Montana's is 4.7. Tua's is 4.90. Hell, Jerry freakin Rice's is 4.71

How about the latest Super Bowl winning quarterbacks? Per Google:

Tom Brady 5.28

Patrick Mahomes 4.80 4.80, people. Does that surprise you?

Tom Brady 5.28

Nick foles 5.14

Tom Brady 5.28

Peyton Manning 4.80

Tom Brady 5.28

Russsell Wilson 4.55

Joe Flacco 4.84

Eli Manning 4.92

Aaron Rodgers 4.71

Drew Brees 4.83

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Eli Manning 4.92

Peyton Manning 4.80

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Tom Brady 5.28

TomBrady 5.28

Brad Johnson 5.02

Tom Brady 5.28

Trent Dilfer 4.7

So, 5 of the last 21 Super Bowls winners were quarterbacked by oh so slightly faster men. Less than 24 percent. Man, don't give me that loser. (Oh Wait, he's the National Champion?) Give me somebody more athletic, and I will develop his mental quickness to that of the top five out of 330 million.

Good Luck.

Where's the dual threat Super Bowl winners this century? Let's count them.

You're still confused again, i'm pretty sure nobody here wants a Lamar Jackson or Cam Newton type quarterback. Most of us are talking about quarterbacks who can create by avoiding pressure and and because of their arm talent they also make the defence defend the entire field. Quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson, Justin Herbert, Zach Wilson, Justin fields, Russell Wilson. Get it?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So would you give up 3 1sts for him over Lance/fields/Wilson?

his film isn't amazing to me. He's efficient under structure which is nice...Jimmy did the same thing.

Imo if you're one meaningful attribute is that you can run your coaches offense that you've got to sit back and learn for three years before playing, I'm not really that impressed. Every single NFL QB should know how to do that.

First off the whole "you gave up THREE first round picks" s**t needs to stop. It's easy math folks. We gave up net -2 first round picks Yes we traded 3 first round picks and got back a VERY valuable 1st round pick back in return.
Ill bet BB would give his left nut for the #3 pick

Im no QB guru and don't know who to pick at this point. I'll jump off the fence during draft week.
Not afraid to admit that.

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
PFF isn't the end all be all of scouts. They are useful. Jones' arm strength is enough to make every conceivable throw that any coach will design.

But as for the ranking, that's OUR ranking (fans). IF Jones is "objectively 5th," it's not by much.

But the point is OUR ranking is a fart in the wind.

If you're giving up three first round picks you should be getting a guy who can do more than just execute the play design. For three first round picks you should be able to get a guy who can still make a positive out of a failed play design.
But yes you are right, OUR ranking is a fart in the wind.
That's why I'm leaning on common sense and sites like PFF (Who at least I know watches and grades every single play of his ) and cbs draft and nfl.com etc. Who almost all had Mac Jones last out of the five quarterbacks before the trade.

look man, I agree that we probably didnt or shouldn't have traded up for Mac Jones but we didn't trade 3 1st rounders. It was 2 1st rounders and a 2021 1st round swap. and I think a 3rd for next year.

but anyways, I trust that no matter who the pick is, its who Kyle wants. and thats good enough for me. whether its Jones or someone else. I hope its someone else though. lol.

Originally posted by KID9R:
You're still confused again, i'm pretty sure nobody here wants a Lamar Jackson or Cam Newton type quarterback. Most of us are talking about quarterbacks who can create by avoiding pressure and and because of their arm talent they also make the defence defend the entire field. Quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson, Justin Herbert, Zach Wilson, Justin fields, Russell Wilson. Get it?

The issue is that regardless of whatever type of QB you prefer, there's always a chance that they end up flopping. Mac Jones could be a major bust, Justin Fields could be a major bust, Zach Wilson could be a major bust, Trey Lance could be a major bust. Trevor Lawrence could be a major bust. History suggests that at least two of these guys are going to bust and one is likely to be pretty average at best. So who are the two busts?

There's always going to be a debate that exists based on various QB attributes. Everyone sees things differently. Some put a lot less value on pocket performance, some put a lot more on it. Some put less value on athleticism, some put a lot more on it. You're never going to get everyone to agree on a player. Peyton Manning was about as good of a college quarterback that I've ever seen but he got knocked for failing to win a national championship and there was a significant debate between the achievement and football IQ of Manning versus the much higher ceiling and better physical abilities of a Ryan Leaf.