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Originally posted by NYniner85:
And then
After Mac's missed deep balls pic.twitter.com/OemncoXhoe
— C.A.Bells (@CABells) March 31, 2021
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The issue is that regardless of whatever type of QB you prefer, there's always a chance that they end up flopping. Mac Jones could be a major bust, Justin Fields could be a major bust, Zach Wilson could be a major bust, Trey Lance could be a major bust. Trevor Lawrence could be a major bust. History suggests that at least two of these guys are going to bust and one is likely to be pretty average at best. So who are the two busts?
There's always going to be a debate that exists based on various QB attributes. Everyone sees things differently. Some put a lot less value on pocket performance, some put a lot more on it. Some put less value on athleticism, some put a lot more on it. You're never going to get everyone to agree on a player. Peyton Manning was about as good of a college quarterback that I've ever seen but he got knocked for failing to win a national championship and there was a significant debate between the achievement and football IQ of Manning versus the much higher ceiling and better physical abilities of a Ryan Leaf.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Why are you comparing a system with traits? No one is knocking Jones for the offense Alabama runs. If Mahomes had the arm strength of Kliff Kingsbury you know who doesn't draft him... Kansas City.
Its not any different from comparing a certain style of passer. A lot of pocket passers are going to fail, just like a lot of mobile passers fail. Overall the college game and high school games have shifted to favoring fewer pro style QB's so you're going to see less of them coming out of college but ultimately, you're still judging these guys as individuals.
And in the end, when you look at who is playing in and winning SB's, its still largely pocket passers which says that there's still room for traditional pocket passing quarterbacks as well as newer age super mobile passers.
Originally posted by 1251alex:
look man, I agree that we probably didnt or shouldn't have traded up for Mac Jones but we didn't trade 3 1st rounders. It was 2 1st rounders and a 2021 1st round swap. and I think a 3rd for next year.
but anyways, I trust that no matter who the pick is, its who Kyle wants. and thats good enough for me. whether its Jones or someone else. I hope its someone else though. lol.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Jim Mora Jr. hyping the conspiracy theory that Robert told John and Kyle that they weren't taking Wilson, and then mysteriously we make the trade.
The other side of the coin is them saying they ARE taking him might have lit some fire to finish the trade since one less QB they liked wasn't making it past 2.
Originally posted by Bellaleo:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
So would you give up 3 1sts for him over Lance/fields/Wilson?
his film isn't amazing to me. He's efficient under structure which is nice...Jimmy did the same thing.
Imo if you're one meaningful attribute is that you can run your coaches offense that you've got to sit back and learn for three years before playing, I'm not really that impressed. Every single NFL QB should know how to do that.
First off the whole "you gave up THREE first round picks" s**t needs to stop. It's easy math folks. We gave up net -2 first round picks Yes we traded 3 first round picks and got back a VERY valuable 1st round pick back in return.
Ill bet BB would give his left nut for the #3 pick
Im no QB guru and don't know who to pick at this point. I'll jump off the fence during draft week.
Not afraid to admit that.
Originally posted by KID9R:
Yeah we know they could all be busts obviously. But you just can't change genetics. Mac Jones has the lowest ceiling.
At best he's Matt Ryan, meh.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Its kinda funny, the only reason we are even having this discussion is Chris Simms said 49ers are probably taking Mac Jones and everyone just assumed he said it because Kyle told him he was going to take him. Then Kyle comes out and says they don't even talk about football because he knows Simms would blab about it. But by then it was to late and everyone just kind of assumes this is the direction they will go. So thanks Chris....
Originally posted by BOI49er:
It's just don't think it's as expensive as you may think. The general rule of thumb is that if you are paying a year later, you step it down one draft round, and two years makes two rounds. Also, I think on the basis of health alone, let alone the improved quarterback room and bench, we can conservatively expect to improve our record so as to be dropping our draft position from 12 to at least 20, and I think much more.
So this year, there is absolutely No compensation beyond our 12th pick. The third pick on the chart is 2200 points, and our 12th is 1200, so we owe Miami an even 1000 points.
Next year, we owe them a 1st and 3rd, which is worth a 2nd and 4th, and at the 20th pick, that's 380 and 64 points.
In 2023, we owe them a 1st, which two years later becomes a 3rd, or 170 points. The total is 614. That puts us ahead of the trade by 386 points, which in current year value is a 2nd rounder.
My point is we still have all our picks this year, so hopefully we'll still have those men we built up that fit Kyle's style of play over those next two years and more, and they're maturing with experience, and still on their rookie contracts. And of course losing Jimmy's salary this year or next will turn into players. And maybe we get a 2nd for Jimmy too.
That all makes for a great window to make a run imo.
Originally posted by KID9R:
Yes it is giving up three first round picks. Because it takes one to draft the guy.
So you are spending three first round picks on a quarterback.
you are right it is easy math.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Its kinda funny, the only reason we are even having this discussion is Chris Simms said 49ers are probably taking Mac Jones and everyone just assumed he said it because Kyle told him he was going to take him. Then Kyle comes out and says they don't even talk about football because he knows Simms would blab about it. But by then it was to late and everyone just kind of assumes this is the direction they will go. So thanks Chris....
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:That is a ridiculous take. There's no way use that much draft equity if you don't have a 1A and a 1B already decided. You have to feel absolutely comfortable using three first round picks on either one of them. You can't meet that trade until you do.
Originally posted by KID9R:
Yeah we know they could all be busts obviously. But you just can't change genetics. Mac Jones has the lowest ceiling.
At best he's Matt Ryan, meh.
Fields' has all the physical traits to be at good as anyone.
Physical tools are great and its primarily how fans evaluate quarterbacks but there's a lot more to it than that. Whichever QB Shanahan takes, he'll make sure that he's plenty confident that they're capable of running every part of his playbook before he commits to them. That is why I don't think the 49ers are entirely sold on any one QB. They definitely have a favorite but they're going to do their due diligence and then some to make sure that they have the right guy.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Its kinda funny, the only reason we are even having this discussion is Chris Simms said 49ers are probably taking Mac Jones and everyone just assumed he said it because Kyle told him he was going to take him. Then Kyle comes out and says they don't even talk about football because he knows Simms would blab about it. But by then it was to late and everyone just kind of assumes this is the direction they will go. So thanks Chris....
Originally posted by KID9R:
That is a ridiculous take. There's no way use that much draft equity if you don't have a 1A and a 1B already decided. You have to feel absolutely comfortable using three first round picks on either one of them. You can't meet that trade until you do.