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Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

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Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Apr 2, 2021 at 6:09 PM
I still don't understand why Jones is the only "on script" QB and Fields is an "off script" QB.

Still don't understand how we went from Jones will only reach his ceiling in a Shannahan offense to Shannahans offence will only reach it's ceiling with Jones.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:13 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:
So heady


How do they even know whether a pass is the first, second, third read? Maybe the QB is just looking someone off?
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:14 PM
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:17 PM
Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I still don't understand why Jones is the only "on script" QB and Fields is an "off script" QB.

Still don't understand how we went from Jones will only reach his ceiling in a Shannahan offense to Shannahans offence will only reach it's ceiling with Jones.

I just want Dan Marino. Is that too much to ask?
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:18 PM
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
So heady


How do they even know whether a pass is the first, second, third read? Maybe the QB is just looking someone off?

What? When you have all the film sitting in front of you you can see the breakdown of the play and where the reads are...even if he's "looking some off" that still doesn't make up for the drastic difference in numbers. Again if you're gonna call out PFF for something you don't like, then you should be using them or really any analytical stat in here.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:18 PM
I just don't see the point of trading to 3 for Mac Jones knowing that the Eagles were willing (and did) trade out of #6.

We could have given up less capital and picked Jones at 6.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:19 PM
One thing I can't get over is the trade up.

One thing when you're taking Mac at 12. No question he's a quality QB and you can win with him and hope he has a terrific career playing in your offense.

But the trade up says you're desperate to bring in a game changer.

Is Jones a better prospect than Jared Goff was? A similar HC to Kyle basically paid to get rid of him after his weaknesses were too tough to hide.

We're moving on from Jimmy. Minnesota hasn't won anything with Cousins.

It's not to say you can't win with a pocket QB anymore but it's getting harder and harder to have that success unless you have a guy like Brady, Drew Brees....aka some of the best to play the game. Can someone think of a time where a team traded up something of this level to draft a pocket passer that was worth it? Goff is probably the most recent example of a big move up for a pocket passer.

Does Kyle really not see where the NFL is going? Does he not see what's happening? I just can't believe that. His comments lately have pointed to him realizing talent matters.

I just can't see this moving being made and there being a question between Kyle and the rest of the front office. It screams of BS to me and I really can't see Kyle making this move for Jones. At least that's what I'll keep saying to myself for the next 4 weeks until we see who the pick actually is and we either celebrate or cry...but then move on and hope whoever he is we look back on this trade fondly after winning several SBs with whoever the QB is.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:19 PM
Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I still don't understand why Jones is the only "on script" QB and Fields is an "off script" QB.

Still don't understand how we went from Jones will only reach his ceiling in a Shannahan offense to Shannahans offence will only reach it's ceiling with Jones.

Because it's not true plain and simple.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:22 PM
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Ripamaru:
Summary of the Athletic film breakdown of Jones. Tell me how this is the guy Shannahan would trade 3 firsts for.....

"Overall, Jones deals with pressure well, but he's not going to create plays when the protection breaks down. I don't believe all quarterbacks have to be out-of-structure maestros, even in today's NFL, but if you're exclusively a pocket passer, you should have amazing arm talent to make up for it. Jones is a below-average athlete with a below-average arm and very good accuracy. If you draft him in the first round, you're betting that his mind can develop into Brady or Drew Brees-like mastery, because his intelligence will ultimately be what can separate him. His physical ability gives him little room for error."

The difference is, Shanahan thinks he can make up the difference.

Worked real well for Jimmy....if your plan is to "make up for the difference" AND give up yrs of 1st rd picks and this teams future IMO that's a big problem.

you'd think kyle would be arrogant enough to think he can take a special player and scheme that offense around his abilities...ohhh wait he actually said that after the Bills game
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:26 PM
Originally posted by Leathaface:
I just don't see the point of trading to 3 for Mac Jones knowing that the Eagles were willing (and did) trade out of #6.

We could have given up less capital and picked Jones at 6.

The Eagles were trying to trade up to #3. Only when the 49ers traded up did they trade down.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:28 PM
Originally posted by genus49:
One thing I can't get over is the trade up.

One thing when you're taking Mac at 12. No question he's a quality QB and you can win with him and hope he has a terrific career playing in your offense.

But the trade up says you're desperate to bring in a game changer.

Is Jones a better prospect than Jared Goff was? A similar HC to Kyle basically paid to get rid of him after his weaknesses were too tough to hide.

We're moving on from Jimmy. Minnesota hasn't won anything with Cousins.

It's not to say you can't win with a pocket QB anymore but it's getting harder and harder to have that success unless you have a guy like Brady, Drew Brees....aka some of the best to play the game. Can someone think of a time where a team traded up something of this level to draft a pocket passer that was worth it? Goff is probably the most recent example of a big move up for a pocket passer.

Does Kyle really not see where the NFL is going? Does he not see what's happening? I just can't believe that. His comments lately have pointed to him realizing talent matters.

I just can't see this moving being made and there being a question between Kyle and the rest of the front office. It screams of BS to me and I really can't see Kyle making this move for Jones. At least that's what I'll keep saying to myself for the next 4 weeks until we see who the pick actually is and we either celebrate or cry...but then move on and hope whoever he is we look back on this trade fondly after winning several SBs with whoever the QB is.

Totally agree, and honestly everything from that presser sounded like the opposite of what the media and some people in here are thinking....yet people are still pushing Jones?

people close to SF, not the big media have said SF hasn't leaked anything. Like Middlekauff said this FO doesn't talk and the fact that everything thinks it's Jones means it not gonna be him. They have no reason to leak that unless they want to make sure no one moves up for the guy they want...even if it's the smallest of chances.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:29 PM
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 64,320
Originally posted by Leathaface:
I just don't see the point of trading to 3 for Mac Jones knowing that the Eagles were willing (and did) trade out of #6.

We could have given up less capital and picked Jones at 6.

I think it says that their target is probably Fields, since at #6, Fields still would have been out of reach. Hence, the move up to #3.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:30 PM
  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 33,368
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Rathof44:
Nope. 272, 218, 308 yds rushing. 200-300 yds is hardly an immobile pocket guy.Think Brady-esque, less than 120 ydsseason. 8yds per game roughly.

LOL. That's nothing.

Zactly, Brady is the definitive pocket passer. Mahomes 300% more rushing yards

Too funny.

Pocket passers = < 150 (Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Brady, Goff, Mayfield, Herbert, etc.)
Pocket passers with mobility = < 300 (Mahomes, Tannehill)
Athletic QB's = > 300 (Wilson, Allen, Jackson, Watson)

Still a massive minority for playoff teams.

Do you have a preference?

Geez if u r gonna quote stats at least get em right: Herbert 234yds 5td in 15 games. 234>150. You're the only one who thinks Mahomes is a pocket passer, good on you. Lol.

Rodgers age 36, 37 seasons were his only season he did not have 200 yds rushing g when he played a full 16 games.

Kyler Murray doesn't count I guess, 500+ and 800+.

So that leaves me Brees (retired), Brady great but almost retired, Ben (Whiny and almost retired,), Ryan (not quite as retired but close) , Mayfield (meh), and Goff (horrible)

I'll definitely take the third group every single day going foward.

No matter how you spin it, it goes against your original take.

I'll give you Herbert because of when he started but again, the mass majority are pocket first, run last with the mass majority under 300 yards for 16 games. Which is not significant at all.

Hell, even Joe Montana had a career rushing of 1,676 yards and 20 touchdowns. Too funny.

You all are acting like every athletic QB coming out is going to rush for 1,200 yards like Lamar Jackson and it's a major threat.

No matter, it's still "pocket first" no matter the style of QB and no matter the offense (unless you're Greg Roman).

Just going to have to agree to disagree, you have you view of pocket passer and I have mine.. They are way different.. But rewatch the last two SBs, tell me how often Mahomes is just sitting there in the pocket, never trying to move or create. Not a pocket QB.

Mac Jones 14 yds rushing last year. 110 seasons and he'd almost catch Montana.

It's all good.

I personally want that pocket-first QB too who badly wants to master that first and only use that mobility to extend plays behind the LOS safely and on designed runs on an overly aggressive defense (like when we punked Charles Haley with Steve Young or Alex Smith on the keeper against the Saints).

I want that Montana QB ability with Young escapability and speed.

That's that 2nd bucket for me (Mahomes). Balance!

No biggie. I just want it all.

With Kyle's system and genius where he's taken care of the ground game. The run offense. The pass offense is what he needs from a QB. I don't think his scheme incorporates much off schedule throws like a scramble drill. His whole scheme is designed to stress defenses from the pocket so the QB doesn't need to scramble. Unless of course its a designed scramble. (The boot pass).

The philosophical question of intangibles vs athleticism is a good question. In kyles scheme I think intangibles matter more than athleticism- at least I think Kyles that's why Kyle chooses the QB he chooses. Greg Roman's offense is more of where an athletic QB matters. Then there are many variations in between.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:30 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:



Pretty much this. Brooks has one of the worst track records when it comes to evaluating QB's of the major talking heads out there. He's up there with Mel Kiper in terms of consistently being wrong on quarterbacks.



He might very well be right about Jones but thus far he's been one of the kings of quarterback bad takes, year in and year out.
Apr 2, 2021 at 6:33 PM
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I still don't understand why Jones is the only "on script" QB and Fields is an "off script" QB.

Still don't understand how we went from Jones will only reach his ceiling in a Shannahan offense to Shannahans offence will only reach it's ceiling with Jones.

I just want Dan Marino. Is that too much to ask?

Nope. His release is still quick, arm strength not what is was, still a pure pocket passer, not in very good shape....hey just like Mac.
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