Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The Eagles were trying to trade up to #3. Only when the 49ers traded up did they trade down.

Breer said this about Miami and SF

Teams calling the Dolphins to sniff around the third pick were told only that Miami had a strong offer for it. The Dolphins didn't shop the Niners' offer, and the Niners didn't double back to the Jets or anyone else looking for a better deal.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Totally agree, and honestly everything from that presser sounded like the opposite of what the media and some people in here are thinking....yet people are still pushing Jones?

people close to SF, not the big media have said SF hasn't leaked anything. Like Middlekauff said this FO doesn't talk and the fact that everything thinks it's Jones means it not gonna be him. They have no reason to leak that unless they want to make sure no one moves up for the guy they want...even if it's the smallest of chances.

That's what I'm hoping for. I think we know fully well that Jags are taking Lawrence so may as well not even grade him.

Draft starts at 2 and it's very possible we don't have Zach Wilson as the top graded QB after Lawrence.

There are connections to Fields/OSU on this team whether Kyle or people close with him.

Fields definitely fits the bill of someone who is better than 98% of the people at several things. Arm talent, mobility, toughness. He's been the #2(sometimes even ahead of him) to Lawrence since they came into college. We should have good insight into Fields as a player, what he's been asked to do in that offense as well as who he is as a teammate and player.

There isn't 100% certainty Jets go with Wilson where nothing can sway them...and hell you never know god forbid Lawrence gets into an accident before the draft and the Jags may not even take him. Unless you're picking #1 overall, there is 0 reason to tip your hand on who you want to draft.

Is this a way for me to feel better about the pick? Absolutely. Does it make logical sense? I think so. Just feels like if you're making a trade like this you're trying to grab a talent that's got elite QB potential even if he doesn't become a Tom Brady level mind.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
LIke Cosell quite a bit, really don't think he ever has an agenda. Just the facts. So my take away from this excerpt is if Kyle is stubborn, he's gonna take Jones.

The biggest and most impactful thing for me that Cosell said was "When the defense tactically wins, the play is over (with Jones)." This is the biggest issue I have with Jones.

And this is exactly why I don't think Kyle is taking him...if he wanted a system QB only he didn't have to move up to 3. He could have just ran out Jimmy. He could have traded less for Kirk or Ryan imo. He could have signed Brady in the off season. He could draft Mills in the second.

What people missed was when Rich brought up kyle, Cosell started talking about Lance. He can do both things. He can run this offense AND make plays of script. He fits the whole high ceiling but needs to sit for a yr like they talked about in their presser.

Agreed. People thinking the defense is never gonna get home and Mac will be afforded the same pocket and time he had at Alabama......ain't happening.

So one related question: why do all of you assume Fields and Lance will get significantly better at quickly seeing the defense and executing (e.g., hot routes), but none of you believe Jones will? That's his strength after all -- executing. So why is it he definitely won't get significantly better at it?

My interpretation of what Cosell said is entirely different from yours I think. My interpretation is he's saying that when the defense destroys a play and gets to the QB, Mac and his cement shoes won't be able to make a play with his legs, evade the rush, or run for 15 yards. The play is over with him, they other guys have an escapability and atleticism to make something out of a play completely disrupted by the defense.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Mac Jones not worth a first-round pick; Rashod Bateman the next Justin Jefferson? #49ers [via https://t.co/PARIVrFiun]https://t.co/VxnFFhd4hu

— 49ers Webzone (@49erswebzone) April 3, 2021

@BuckyBrooks has a terrible record on scouting QB's, you can take whatever he says and reverse it and you'd be better off. Josh Allen Ranked 5th, Mahomes is 'at his best Matt Stafford' (4) while Deshone Kizer is 2. Tua 1 Herbert 3, Haskins over Murray. #NFL search it, its BAD

— 49ers luke warm takes (@BennyIsAJet) April 3, 2021

Pretty much this. Brooks has one of the worst track records when it comes to evaluating QB's of the major talking heads out there. He's up there with Mel Kiper in terms of consistently being wrong on quarterbacks.



He might very well be right about Jones but thus far he's been one of the kings of quarterback bad takes, year in and year out.

Is that your Twitter handle? Bucky isn't the only one saying that either...DJ said the same thing, Lance said the same thing everything single evaluator on the TDN, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks he's worth the 3rd overall pick let alone 3 1st rd picks...dude is gonna have so much pressure to be a tom Brady prospect with all that invested in him. It's a failure waiting to happen.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Is that your Twitter handle?

Yup.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Is that your Twitter handle?

Yup.

lol nice, posting your own tweet in here

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jcs:
If we're talking about Fields low of 4.44 as his set time then Mac's low at 4.68 should be propped up as both numbers came at pro days. Reality is Fields should probably have a combine 40 around 4.53 and Mac around 4.77.

Not sure where you're getting 7.04 is a bad 3 cone. Bad is Goff who pulled a 7.17 or even Matt Ryan who managed a 7.40.

His SS at 4.39 puts Jones up there with J.Herbert who ran a 4.46 or Jordan Love who ran a 4.52 last year.

You know what doesn't get brought up though is his 32" vertical and 9'8" Broad jump with show much better athleticism than our own Jimmy who had a 30" vertical and 9'2" broad jump and Jimmy did this ripped and maxed out vs Jones who in an NFL weight room clearly has room to improve.

Mac Jones comes from an athletic family, his parents both played tennis in college and his dad was also a semi pro who played in qualifiers at the British and french opens. This kind of information was tossed around to push Josh Rosens genetics and athleticism during his draft but for Mac they get turned into disqualifies because he can't run a 4.4 40. He's athletic enough to be successful as a QB in the NFL. He's athletic enough to be drafted in the top 5 of the Draft. He's not the Statue that too many here want to portray him as.

Side note-
E.Smith's pro day numbers were pretty screwy...there was a claim he also ran in the 4.4...but it gets tossed out because he supposedly cheated. Looking back at his combine it was 4.7 and yes he played faster with pads on but wasn't burning long runs at a regular clip in the NFL.

Lol fields and Mac aren't on the same planet in terms of 40s or athletic ability...He ran a 4.72, so then he's a mid 4.8 guy and fields is a 4.5 guy, if you want to do that.

a 7.04 3-cone at 2017lbs is not good, again at a PRO DAY! Herbert weighed 240lbs lol. You're comparing bigger stronger dudes and pretending they're the same...it's not apples to apples.

I could give two s**ts what his parents did...is his dad playing QB? NO ONE cares about a vert or BJ for a QB. He's not catching passes or rushing the passer.

You're trying entirely too hard to make Matt Jones out to be an athlete, he's simply not and he's not even close to the other four quarterbacks...go listen to Cosell talk about him. He's incapable of making plays outside of the pocket and off script. He's a pure system QB and nothing more.

his talent level is found in every draft, the only difference is he was able to sit on the bench for 3 yrs and play on a team that was vastly better than everyone else during a Covid season.

Lmaoooo...they are trying way to hard to prop up Mac Jones. Shanahan would be a fool to draft him 3rd

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Bloodless:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So good. It's all philosophical. And Greg didn't even touch on the non-athletic side of that scenario where a smart heady prepared and accurate QB can avoid getting in trouble to begin with. He was just speaking from a physical escape ability perspective. Or the QB that still has that ability but gets beat to hell and is sick of it because the team relies on it (Wilson).

So yeah, it comes down to philosophy.

And for Kyle?

What? He most certainly talked about athletic ability...he said Jones is in capable of making plays off script. He said if it's 3rd and 9 and let's say McG gets blown up that play is dead...Jones can't NOT make up for that.

If Donald beats a guy, it's over. If Ramsey locks down his first read, it's done. Have we not seen this already with Jimmy and every other QB thrown back there?

I love how he brought up Brady and the GB game, Brady had 3 TOs...his OL broke down on one and all he could do was throw it up because his incapable of doing anything else.

IF you want Mac you're looking for pristine play from all 11 people over and over...you're asking everyone on offense to win on every play in order for everything to work consistently. That is NOT the reality of how the NFL works. This isn't a situation of our team is 10X better then your team every week.

And you missed the other half of it where that's perfectly fine because of the system (execution). Where an OC is fine with that if that player fits the system and executes the offense as he wants.

He's literally giving you one example of a physical trait as a scenario where even he, grapples with because both can still be wildly successful and it comes down to individual philosophy.

He does hit on one of the biggest advantages of having a mobile qb and one of the biggest disadvantages of having a pocket passer.

I will say he doesn't mention some of the other major positives and negatives for both of them.

He does bring up a good point as to the debate of a pocket passer vs Mobile QB and How teams feel about them. It seems like it comes down to if you want a guy who goes off script or if you want a guy who stays on script. There are positive and negatives for both. So which one of these does Kyle want? I think he wants a stay on script player. Maybe, he has changed his view. But everything I have ever been led to believe about him is he wants a on script QB running his system exactly how he has designed it.

Yeah, he's right but he was specifically answering the question on which HE preferred, to which he said he grapples with that (as he still sees benefits to both) to this day.

Clearly, you got the rest of that down well too.

Kyle's had some poor luck. He gets an athletic QB in RGIII and he's hurt every other play going off script. He gets a pocket passer in Garoppolo and he gets hurt off schedule and put on I.R. twice from within structure. He gets a nice balance in Matt Ryan and his C plays with a broken leg and backup RB who blow the critical pass protection.

At this point, Kyle's about to say eff-it, be the QB himself and just do jet sweeps all game long. He can't win.

I dont think its bad luck, just growing pains. Even bellichick had his half a decade of really sucking as a coach. Same with Landry, Knoll. They have to go through several years of struggle until they figure out the balance that you are talking about. Vince Lombardi figured out how to take advantage of coaches not utilizing minorities as players. Walsh took advantage of the pass rules changes, and I think Bill had his advantage with regards to cap management. Kyle has to figure out maybe his challenge between intangibles and athleticism.

Originally posted by DoseOfBosa:

Originally posted by fan49:
Look Matt Jones is a statue that reads defense as well and goes to his Progressions well. But everybody's comparing him to Matt Ryan I don't think he'll ever compare to Matt Ryan because Matt Ryan can throw that deep ball. At the pro day Mac Jones deep ball looked horrible. I will be truly truly bummed out if we get back Jones and traded those first rounders for him. His ceiling is so low and there's no way that equals the pics we traded

Mac Jones' deep ball is just fine

His pro showed different. If you can't do it in a pro day how are you gonna do it against NFL defenses. Look Jones is the only guy that there's no way I can get excited about. I can find a way to get excited about everybody else. Just not him. And there's a reason for that he's not gonna be good at bootlegs, he's not gonna be throwing the deep ball, And just plain and simple there is nothing exciting about him. Look I'm Zach Wilson first Justin fields second. But bottom line is yeah you can throw Ohio State in there. But he played the best defenses he beat Trevor Lawrence and besides Jones he had the best numbers by far. I love how people bring up personality problems with fields, but didn't Jones get a DUI. Why do you think they don't bring that up?

Originally posted by Rathof44:
My interpretation of what Cosell said is entirely different from yours I think. My interpretation is he's saying that when the defense destroys a play and gets to the QB, Mac and his cement shoes won't be able to make a play with his legs, evade the rush, or run for 15 yards. The play is over with him, they other guys have an escapability and atleticism to make something out of a play completely disrupted by the defense.

It's exactly what he said and if anyone is interpreting it as something different then they're simply wrong.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

@BuckyBrooks has a terrible record on scouting QB's, you can take whatever he says and reverse it and you'd be better off. Josh Allen Ranked 5th, Mahomes is 'at his best Matt Stafford' (4) while Deshone Kizer is 2. Tua 1 Herbert 3, Haskins over Murray. #NFL search it, its BAD

— 49ers luke warm takes (@BennyIsAJet) April 3, 2021

Pretty much this. Brooks has one of the worst track records when it comes to evaluating QB's of the major talking heads out there. He's up there with Mel Kiper in terms of consistently being wrong on quarterbacks.



He might very well be right about Jones but thus far he's been one of the kings of quarterback bad takes, year in and year out.

Imagine making Chris Broussard look like the voice of reason.

Originally posted by Squash:
Imagine making Chris Broussard look like the voice of reason.

It was Bucky Brooks and really every single other draft analysis.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It was Bucky Brooks and really every single other draft analysis.

On Tom Brady being nothing more than a system quarterback?

Originally posted by NCommand:
I am curious.

Is there a scenario where a less-athletic QB could be elevated into a top 5 discussion anymore? What elite less-athletic traits does one have to possess now to be considered a top 5 consideration with "elite traits" like the athletic QB's?

Top 3 >>>>> Top 5

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
to the bolded...

Brady has made it to 10 SBs, it's not luck or coincidence.

The problem is -- as I've suggested before -- someone with his acumen, want-to, and ability comes along possibly (at best) every 50 years or so. Do we wait till then or keep trying to find him in vain?