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Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by braap49er:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Fields blows this guy out of the water in every area... even if he didnt have any athletic ability, Fields is still the better player. I promise you, Mac is a late 2nd or 3rd round pick in most drafts.
LOL
LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL
You guys amaze me with your detailed rebuttals. Very impressive....
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Ripamaru:
Fields was under pressure far more than Jones was.
Fields on average played higher rated defenses.
Fields was more accurate adjusted for depth of pass (taking into account all the short throws Mac made vs Fields 2/3 air yards).
You can't argue that Jones is the pick in spite of inferior arm talent and athletic ability because hes more accurate and better in the pocket when the numbers say Fields was more accurate and threw more often from the pocket.
Shannahan isn't stupid. He saw the film that tells this story. That's why when asked if he was comfortable with Fields at the elite level he said yes. When asked about Jones he went on about expanding that list to 4 or 5.
Fields did not play higher level defenses though
the Big10 isnt exactly known for high quality D and to be frank against good D like Alabama and NW he did not play well at all
also you act like Mac Jones doent throw deep that isnt true
https://sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/2020/12/31/top-college-deep-ball-passers-in-2020/
Highest-graded QBs on deep passing in college football last season
— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) March 30, 2021
1. Zach Wilson - 99.9
2. Mac Jones - 98.9 pic.twitter.com/tlPYqIzTSh
A high grade passing deep doesn't necessarily address the volume of throws deep, compared to the shorter passes. We went through these same arguments about Jimmy's 2019 season.
You can have an excellent grade at something in sports if you don't do it very much.
He also had great receivers and an O line that gave him time to let them get open. I'd be fine with him if we could draft their O line and receivers.
Originally posted by random49er:
A high grade passing deep doesn't necessarily address the volume of throws deep, compared to the shorter passes. We went through these same arguments about Jimmy's 2019 season.
You can have an excellent grade at something in sports if you don't do it very much.
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
He also had great receivers and an O line that gave him time to let them get open. I'd be fine with him if we could draft their O line and receivers.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by random49er:
A high grade passing deep doesn't necessarily address the volume of throws deep, compared to the shorter passes. We went through these same arguments about Jimmy's 2019 season.
You can have an excellent grade at something in sports if you don't do it very much.
So if Mac throws 10 deep balls a game and Fields throws 10 deep balls a game you're saying Fields is more impressive just because his team did 10 hand offs while Bama did 10 wr screens? Not sure if I buy that. In Jimmy's case the problem is he only throws it deep once or twice a game. Bama dord have it's fair share of deep balls.
Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by random49er:
A high grade passing deep doesn't necessarily address the volume of throws deep, compared to the shorter passes. We went through these same arguments about Jimmy's 2019 season.
You can have an excellent grade at something in sports if you don't do it very much.
So if Mac throws 10 deep balls a game and Fields throws 10 deep balls a game you're saying Fields is more impressive just because his team did 10 hand offs while Bama did 10 wr screens? Not sure if I buy that. In Jimmy's case the problem is he only throws it deep once or twice a game. Bama dord have it's fair share of deep balls.
No. Someone posted a stat about how much of Field's yards come as AIR YARDS. I'm cool with his game passing deep,....how could I not be? Dude has a cannon and great placement consistently.
What I WAS saying is that a passing rating does not address VOLUME of throws.
When someone says a guy doesn't pass deep very much percentage-wise,...and you proceed to show people he has a high rating doing so,...it's speaking past the OP,...not to them. It's a complete change of subject.
Originally posted by random49er:
No. Someone posted a stat about how much of Field's yards come as AIR YARDS. I'm cool with his game passing deep,....how could I not be? Dude has a cannon and great placement consistently.
What I WAS saying is that a passing rating does not address VOLUME of throws.
When someone says a guy doesn't pass deep very much percentage-wise,...and you proceed to show people he has a high rating doing so,...it's speaking past the OP,...not to them. It's a complete change of subject.
Originally posted by random49er:
Here is putting context with words....something that doesn't happen too often.
Now these #s are from sportsinfosolutionsblog.com as of December 31st,....so take them with a grain of salt regarding what's counted as a deep pass. But I'd imagine if we made "deep" even deeper,...certain guys would fall off the map even more.
But knowing Trevor Lawrence missed some games and the Big Ten and Fields played limited games as well as they barely had a season,....here are their deep passing numbers:
Given 12 or so games,...you can see what a crazy amount of Deep Passes could get to on this list,...upwards of 70.
Now mixing in their respective yards,...let's look @ this:
.........Yards.....Deep Passes
Mac Jones ...........4500......47
Trevor Lawrence..3153......40
Justin Fields.........2100
Zach Wilson ........3692......50
With 2100 yards during a shortened season,..Fields is obviously forgiven for not showing up on this particular list.
But making up my own stat,...let's look @ Deep Passes per 100 yards
Trevor Lawrence: 1.27
Zach Wilson: 1.35
Mac Jones: 1.04
These #s have to slightly be off without factoring in the playoff games. But per these #s,...the other 2 worthy candidates (Lawrence and Wilson) were on target more and tested downfield much more per their yards gained.
But with 4500 yards,...yet only 47 deep passes on the list with the crazy weapons he had,...hopefully you're getting people's point when they tell you a crazy amount of his crazy numbers came from a large chunk of short and intermediate stuff.
Does it mean he never throws deep ala Jimmy? NO!
Does it mean it should've forced more passes deep to be higher on this list? NO!
Does it mean you should put his nutty #s into better context as I just did? Yes
Originally posted by krizay:
I know many think his offense will evolve with a running QB. Just because you're adding a running element doesn't necessarily make it better. If the passing plays are being executed as designed.
Originally posted by krizay:
The arguments.
His OL gives him all day to throw:
He has the least average time to throw out of the top 4.
That's because he throws quick passes behind the line of scrimmage:
That is correct. 34% of his passes at or behind the line of scrimmage. We have to assume he doesn't get much pressure on these type of passes mainly. He has been pressured as much as every other QB in this class despite less traditional drop backs. So is his OL really giving him all day to throw? at least as it compares to the other guys?
He has great weapons:
There is absolutely no denying that. However, he lost waddle early in the season and never missed a beat. He lost Smith in the NCCG and never missed a beat. Drove right down the field 3 straight posessions for 17 points without him. On the biggest stage.
He's a statue:
he ran between a 4.78 & 4.83 in the Dak Prescott and Patrick Mahomes territory. He'll never make a 40 yard house call but showed consistently he can not only move around within the pocket but pick up chunk yards on runs if a lane presents itself.
He has a weak arm:
Obviously not the strongest arm. His arm however I believe is strong enough. Alex Smith proved that you can improve arm strength. While it will never be a rocket it can and will get better as he gets in shape.
He's fat and out of shape:
Clearly he can use some NFL weight training. Which will only enhance both his arm strength and to a smaller degree agility/speed
Work ethic because he's chubby:
Everyone to a man talks about his work ethic. How he's always studying film. That is more important at least in my eyes than a QB having work ethic in a gym.
Alabama QB's:
This Alabama offense this year looked like no other Alabama offense we've seen before. Tua is the closest ALA QB you can even compare him to and he was a top 5 pick just last year.
Oft script plays:
While he has made some oft-script plays with his arm, it's few and far between. It definitely won't be his calling card. But he can do it. Definitely not as good as the others.
Not an upgrade over jimmy:
We are only wanting to replace Jimmy because he can't stay healthy. Not because he sucks. I would argue that he is indeed an upgrade over Jimmy. Better pocket presence and not afraid to take deep shots for starters. Then the whole health thing.
DUI's:
19 years old freshman at college. I thought there were two of them but can only find mention of one. Had he continued down this path then obviously it would be a problem. If there were other drinking incidents then it would be a problem.
600 more yards to open WRs than any other QB in the country:
he had over 1,000 more yards than the #3 QB. So yes he had more yards to open WRs. He also had more yards to "unopen" WRs
Boot action is a staple in Shanny's offense:
Someone said we only ran 34 such plays last year. Not too mention there is tape of Mac being able to do it. Just like him making plays with his leg. He wasn't asked to do it much but he showed he can. Also Shanny himself said he'd rather a lesser athletic QB run the boot so the defense doesn't expect it.
Mac Jones fits perfectly to what Shanny wants to do. Shanny calls plays to set up other plays down the road. If you have a mobile QB that adlibs and messes up the integrity of a play or doesn't know where to go with the football. That could very easily mess up the flow of Shanahan calling plays. That is the strength of Kyle Shanahan.
While I have ascended past luke warm on Fields. I still feel Jones is the best fir for this offense. With Jones I see a SB while on his rookie deal. That because I know Shanahan's offense will get us back to the SB. I cannot say that with the other QBs because I don't feel we will be able to run Kyle's offense. I know many think his offense will evolve with a running QB. Just because you're adding a running element doesn't necessarily make it better. If the passing plays are being executed as designed.
Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
All of this analysis is based off of the false notion that just because Fields is fast, he operates outside of schedule. Simply not true.