Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Fowler on ESPN doing a little backpedaling like the rest of the NFL media...says what he hears from people that "know" kyle is Jones simply fits his mold of QB...brought up Schaub/Kirk lol like that's his ideal QB or some s**t. He then said that no on actually knows who they're picking and the fact that they will be going to Lance/fields pro days is telling...

so while I have to accept the fact that Jones has a legit chance being the pick...like I keep saying NO ONE has a freaking clue who they're gonna pick.

I'm 100% with you on this one. I'm fairly confident nobody truly knows.

The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that Mike Shanahan is helping in this assessment and this has that RGIII-feel to it along with Kyle's own comments about how he'd have to adjust the whole offense for a QB like him and Kaepernick (in the past).

And Mike's strong personal connection to Adam Schefter, who sounded extremely confident Mac Jones was the pick (virtually, a laughable reaction to the question like "Duh!"). And given Kyle hasn't brought in one single mobile QB in 5 years now?

Virtually all media will cycle to Fields and then Lance and we'll probably be back to Mac days before the pick. But nobody really knows.

And honestly, if it's Fields or Lance, that's going to be fantastic as he'll be walking in to an ideal situation where he can develop properly and hit the ground running down the road when Kyle feels he is ready. I'd personally sit any of the 3 for a full year, but that's just me.

Agreed. I think having that year to sit is what Kyle also wants and imo would make him more receptive of Fields and Lance. The fear is Jimmy staying on the field. Maybe Rosen or whoever will actually be the backup and the rookie qb3 first half of the season. Kyle can coach up and we and mold the offense slowly etc. I know some feel Fields could push Jimmy day 1.

Mike is a wild card and your points are why we are going back and forth, but he won with Young and Elway... so let's see how stubborn they are. I've said Fields actually reminds me of Young. I feel like Kyle could have a field day with him! (Pun intended).

Haha. Nice.

Fields of jeans, baby.

I'm so fascinated by this because it ultimately comes down to philosophy. What style of QB does Kyle feel is most ideal for his system. And if that style isn't as conducive to his system, taking that player's upside, what system changes will he make to get optimal output?

So good.

I know and I feel like a great QB is system agnostic. Do we not believe Mahomes or Watson would not have succeeded here? Hell, I think Kyle would have made Trubisky more successful for example, but he was right to pass up on him that high. (Which is how I feel with Jones)

Obviously every QB should be great in the pocket. Imo that is a baseline. Can this kid make plays as designed from the pocket? However, the game is changing a bit and having mobility is a plus. This is pretty much what Kyle said.

I don't equate Fields to a pure runner at all. I have that fear with Lance as far as pocket presence and reading a defense go.

I just want to hear - with the third pick in the 2021 NFL draft the San Francisco 49ers select - Justin Fields. QB - Ohio State wooo hooooooo!!!

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
A question for Mac Stan's, would you still be ok with him if we traded to #1? Or if Trevor was somehow available at #3?

If we take Mac at 3 with Sunshine still on the board then that tells me none of Sunshine's teammates went to his bday party.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Fowler on ESPN doing a little backpedaling like the rest of the NFL media...says what he hears from people that "know" kyle is Jones simply fits his mold of QB...brought up Schaub/Kirk lol like that's his ideal QB or some s**t. He then said that no on actually knows who they're picking and the fact that they will be going to Lance/fields pro days is telling...

so while I have to accept the fact that Jones has a legit chance being the pick...like I keep saying NO ONE has a freaking clue who they're gonna pick.

We don't have any combine,... Yet they aren't furloughed until next year and still have to talk.

How close to the vest has Kyle and Lynch kept things the last several years?

The age we're living in where falsehoods spread like wildfires is kinda crazy.

Which is why I return to 1 simple premise: On what planet is Mac Jones worth the risk of giving up 3 1st rounders & change?

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Fowler on ESPN doing a little backpedaling like the rest of the NFL media...says what he hears from people that "know" kyle is Jones simply fits his mold of QB...brought up Schaub/Kirk lol like that's his ideal QB or some s**t. He then said that no on actually knows who they're picking and the fact that they will be going to Lance/fields pro days is telling...

so while I have to accept the fact that Jones has a legit chance being the pick...like I keep saying NO ONE has a freaking clue who they're gonna pick.

I'm 100% with you on this one. I'm fairly confident nobody truly knows.

The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that Mike Shanahan is helping in this assessment and this has that RGIII-feel to it along with Kyle's own comments about how he'd have to adjust the whole offense for a QB like him and Kaepernick (in the past).

And Mike's strong personal connection to Adam Schefter, who sounded extremely confident Mac Jones was the pick (virtually, a laughable reaction to the question like "Duh!"). And given Kyle hasn't brought in one single mobile QB in 5 years now?

Virtually all media will cycle to Fields and then Lance and we'll probably be back to Mac days before the pick. But nobody really knows.

And honestly, if it's Fields or Lance, that's going to be fantastic as he'll be walking in to an ideal situation where he can develop properly and hit the ground running down the road when Kyle feels he is ready. I'd personally sit any of the 3 for a full year, but that's just me.

Agreed. I think having that year to sit is what Kyle also wants and imo would make him more receptive of Fields and Lance. The fear is Jimmy staying on the field. Maybe Rosen or whoever will actually be the backup and the rookie qb3 first half of the season. Kyle can coach up and we and mold the offense slowly etc. I know some feel Fields could push Jimmy day 1.

Mike is a wild card and your points are why we are going back and forth, but he won with Young and Elway... so let's see how stubborn they are. I've said Fields actually reminds me of Young. I feel like Kyle could have a field day with him! (Pun intended).

Haha. Nice.

Fields of jeans, baby.

I'm so fascinated by this because it ultimately comes down to philosophy. What style of QB does Kyle feel is most ideal for his system. And if that style isn't as conducive to his system, taking that player's upside, what system changes will he make to get optimal output?

So good.

I know and I feel like a great QB is system agnostic. Do we not believe Mahomes or Watson would not have succeeded here? Hell, I think Kyle would have made Trubisky more successful for example, but he was right to pass up on him that high. (Which is how I feel with Jones)

Obviously every QB should be great in the pocket. Imo that is a baseline. Can this kid make plays as designed from the pocket? However, the game is changing a bit and having mobility is a plus. This is pretty much what Kyle said.

I don't equate Fields to a pure runner at all. I have that fear with Lance as far as pocket presence and reading a defense go.

I just want to hear - with the third pick in the 2021 NFL draft the San Francisco 49ers select - Justin Fields. QB - Ohio State wooo hooooooo!!!

"Obviously every QB should be great in the pocket..."

That's still literally 90% of every offense. This is where Kyle's offensive philosophy is going to be tested most.

Because at the end of the day, all the flashy scrambling and highlight reel plays, are just a very small proportion of QB play.

Obviously, we all want a John Elway and Steve Young 6 years into their career where there is a perfect marriage of pocket mastery and off schedule success.

Does that exist in this draft?

Best at processing? Best at going through reads?

This is the data on throws past their first read. Mac Jones is the very worst in this class. Not just the other 4 top guys but even guys like Trask, Mond, Mills, and Newman.

https://ibb.co/1LQdd3P

He had the lowest % of attempts. The lowest completion %. The worst accuracy. The worst ball placement.

(Edited for typos and addition at the end)

Sports center latest draft rumors: Talk of Mac Jones to Niners picking up

Originally posted by Ripamaru:
Best at processing? Best at going through reads?

This is the data on throws passed their first read. Mac Jones is the very worst in this class. Not just the other 4 top guys but even guys like Trask, Mond, Mills, and Newman.

https://ibb.co/1LQdd3P

He had the lowest % of attempts. The lowest completion %. The worst accuracy. The worst ball placement.

how can 10% of his attempts be beyond his first read at 32% when his overall completion % is 77% .

Even if this is true this a classic case of not looking t tape because if you come to the conclusion after watching mac jones play is that he can not process the game you really need to reevaluate yourself in terms of looking at QBs

i think everyone can agree he can process the game and make in game adjustments better than any of these 3 qbs the limitation to his game is physical

Originally posted by ritz126:
how can 10% of his attempts be beyond his first read at 32% when his overall completion % is 77% .

Even if this is true this a classic case of not looking t tape because if you come to the conclusion after watching mac jones play is that he can not process the game you really need to reevaluate yourself in terms of looking at QBs

i think everyone can agree he can process the game and make in game adjustments better than any of these 3 qbs the limitation to his game is physical

Because he completes an insane % of first read throws. He played with an all star cast and a brilliant play caller. He always had wide open targets for first reads.

I've watched all his film. He definitely struggled when that first read wasn't open. It just wasn't very often.

Let's say you attempt 1000 passes. 900 to your first read. Complete 85% of them. That's 765. Then you complete 33 out of 100 throws past your first read. That's 798. Or 79.8%.

It's pretty easy to see how he did that.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Fowler on ESPN doing a little backpedaling like the rest of the NFL media...says what he hears from people that "know" kyle is Jones simply fits his mold of QB...brought up Schaub/Kirk lol like that's his ideal QB or some s**t. He then said that no on actually knows who they're picking and the fact that they will be going to Lance/fields pro days is telling...

so while I have to accept the fact that Jones has a legit chance being the pick...like I keep saying NO ONE has a freaking clue who they're gonna pick.

I'm 100% with you on this one. I'm fairly confident nobody truly knows.

The only thing that gives me pause is the fact that Mike Shanahan is helping in this assessment and this has that RGIII-feel to it along with Kyle's own comments about how he'd have to adjust the whole offense for a QB like him and Kaepernick (in the past).

And Mike's strong personal connection to Adam Schefter, who sounded extremely confident Mac Jones was the pick (virtually, a laughable reaction to the question like "Duh!"). And given Kyle hasn't brought in one single mobile QB in 5 years now?

Virtually all media will cycle to Fields and then Lance and we'll probably be back to Mac days before the pick. But nobody really knows.

And honestly, if it's Fields or Lance, that's going to be fantastic as he'll be walking in to an ideal situation where he can develop properly and hit the ground running down the road when Kyle feels he is ready. I'd personally sit any of the 3 for a full year, but that's just me.

Agreed. I think having that year to sit is what Kyle also wants and imo would make him more receptive of Fields and Lance. The fear is Jimmy staying on the field. Maybe Rosen or whoever will actually be the backup and the rookie qb3 first half of the season. Kyle can coach up and we and mold the offense slowly etc. I know some feel Fields could push Jimmy day 1.

Mike is a wild card and your points are why we are going back and forth, but he won with Young and Elway... so let's see how stubborn they are. I've said Fields actually reminds me of Young. I feel like Kyle could have a field day with him! (Pun intended).

Haha. Nice.

Fields of jeans, baby.

I'm so fascinated by this because it ultimately comes down to philosophy. What style of QB does Kyle feel is most ideal for his system. And if that style isn't as conducive to his system, taking that player's upside, what system changes will he make to get optimal output?

So good.

I know and I feel like a great QB is system agnostic. Do we not believe Mahomes or Watson would not have succeeded here? Hell, I think Kyle would have made Trubisky more successful for example, but he was right to pass up on him that high. (Which is how I feel with Jones)

Obviously every QB should be great in the pocket. Imo that is a baseline. Can this kid make plays as designed from the pocket? However, the game is changing a bit and having mobility is a plus. This is pretty much what Kyle said.

I don't equate Fields to a pure runner at all. I have that fear with Lance as far as pocket presence and reading a defense go.

I just want to hear - with the third pick in the 2021 NFL draft the San Francisco 49ers select - Justin Fields. QB - Ohio State wooo hooooooo!!!

"Obviously every QB should be great in the pocket..."

That's still literally 90% of every offense. This is where Kyle's offensive philosophy is going to be tested most.

Because at the end of the day, all the flashy scrambling and highlight reel plays, are just a very small proportion of QB play.

Obviously, we all want a John Elway and Steve Young 6 years into their career where there is a perfect marriage of pocket mastery and off schedule success.

Does that exist in this draft?

It's a crapshoot but I'm certain it's not Jones lol

Originally posted by Ripamaru:

Originally posted by ritz126:
how can 10% of his attempts be beyond his first read at 32% when his overall completion % is 77% .

Even if this is true this a classic case of not looking t tape because if you come to the conclusion after watching mac jones play is that he can not process the game you really need to reevaluate yourself in terms of looking at QBs

i think everyone can agree he can process the game and make in game adjustments better than any of these 3 qbs the limitation to his game is physical

Because he completes an insane % of first read throws. He played with an all star cast and a brilliant play caller. He always had wide open targets for first reads.

I've watched all his film. He definitely struggled when that first read wasn't open. It just wasn't very often.

going past first reads is about play design more than processing unless he stares down WR which i dont think he does.

processing is about reading defenses and making adjustments to those defenses which is also why he has a high comp% to his initial target. Also i dont think he can support 2 top 5 WR without being able to go through his reads

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:
Sports center latest draft rumors: Talk of Mac Jones to Niners picking up

They have to keep the draft intriguing

Just came here to say that were not drafting Mac, and lol @ the 16% who said "preferred choice" un-ironically.

Kyle and John are smart guys. I know they've missed on some picks but all teams do The first round last year had about 30% who played well with the rest either being average or busts. I just can't believe that a team that historically doesn't take big swings and make trades like this would do it to take Mac Jones. This is the type of trade you make when you see an opportunity to get a real game changer, not a game manager. I'm sure Kyle could win with Jones but why would he want to limit his possibilities.

Originally posted by Ripamaru:
Best at processing? Best at going through reads?

This is the data on throws past their first read. Mac Jones is the very worst in this class. Not just the other 4 top guys but even guys like Trask, Mond, Mills, and Newman.

https://ibb.co/1LQdd3P

He had the lowest % of attempts. The lowest completion %. The worst accuracy. The worst ball placement.

(Edited for typos and addition at the end)

You're late. Simms already destroyed this stat.