Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:
Kyle Shanahan watches Salah embarrass smart pocket passers with middling arms for 4 years and then decides to bet his whole future on a smart pocket passer with a middling arm because he believes this particular smart pocket passer with a middling arm - a kid whose all world WRs almost always beat their coverage during the one season he started in college - will lead him to the Super Bowl is honestly mind boggling. Not more mind boggling than that sentence, but close.

And yet he's fielded top offense after top offense with QBs that arent perceived to have the best arms or mobility in the NFL. Not to mention... it doesnt matter if your Brees, Brady, Wilson, Jackson or Mahomes... a top pass rush & defense makes them all look like sh*t (when refs actually call holding penalties ).

They are doing their due diligence with the quarterbacks. They probably know who they want. But they have to be ready for anything.

Originally posted by Lurker:
They are doing their due diligence with the quarterbacks. They probably know who they want. But they have to be ready for anything.

Yeah, it's almost like their careers are on the line and it might be important to do their due diligence right up to the pick. Odd.

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:
Kyle Shanahan watches Salah embarrass smart pocket passers with middling arms for 4 years and then decides to bet his whole future on a smart pocket passer with a middling arm because he believes this particular smart pocket passer with a middling arm - a kid whose all world WRs almost always beat their coverage during the one season he started in college - will lead him to the Super Bowl is honestly mind boggling. Not more mind boggling than that sentence, but close.

And yet he's fielded top offense after top offense with QBs that arent perceived to have the best arms in the NFL. Not to mention... it doesnt matter if your Brees, Brady, Wilson, Jackson or Mahomes... a top pass rush & defense makes them all look like sh*t (when refs actually call holding penalties ).

True! But I'd hope that he'd want to make life a little easier for himself and fall in love with a Jackson/Wilson/Mahomes type of player.

But hell, maybe he's bored and wants more of a challenge!

I laugh when I see everything Mac Jones is........is basically what Jimmy is. So.... just why?

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
And yet he's fielded top offense after top offense with QBs that arent perceived to have the best arms or mobility in the NFL.

Notice how you are forced to use the term "top offense" instead of "top passing offense" during his tenure here.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Why does it have to be anyone? Why can't shanahan pinpoint a qb that can run his offense at its highest efficiency? Shanahan already knows he can't win with anyone. See beathard and Mullens. Weak point.

Because you can "pin point" a system QB every draft. You can find Kirk in the 4th. He tried doing that with CJ....If the narrative is kyle can get the most out of a guy and his scheme is all that matters , then you shouldn't have to burn yrs of 1sts. You should be able to grab second tier system guys. You don't have to pay top money for QBs... Schaub was a 3rd rd pick.

It's f**king arrogant to assume you can run a perfect game every week. Players get hurt, plays breakdown, not everyone can run a play efficiently every down...guess what everyone is good in the NFL, your team isn't gonna be drastically better than everyone every week.

you don't think Kyle gets pissed calling the perfect play only to see his RG blow a block and the play is Essentially dead because your QB can't make the play off script? You can call amazing plays, but that all goes out the window the moment someone can't execute....doesn't have to be the QB f**king up either.

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick
Jones - Good decision making, hits multiple reads, great ball placement but can be mechanically inconsistent on longballs (dips his shoulder) which causes him to come up short on some longballs. He has the arm strength to make all the throws, but isnt gonna scramble and hit a 60 yarder on the run. But then says no OC draws up 60 yards in the air type plays, if you can hit guys at 50 yards in stride that is what is more important. His criticism of other criticisms... the mobility issue, said it's not as big a deal cause with the quick release and his quick decision making he does a good job dumping the ball off to the RB or throws it away to avoid taking the sack.

When I watch Jones, I really don't see this consistently. Does he have some really nice throws that are very well placed? Yes. But more often his throws are short or behind guys. Throws that should be out in front of the receiver, but the WR has to turn his body back toward the QB to catch. They usually get completed because Smith/Waddle/Metchie have 2-3 yards of separation (or the DB has fallen down), but in the NFL, a lot of these passes would be broken up.

To be fair, that shows up on everyones film. It's also what makes it hard to judge as well... these guys are college QBs not pros. As much as we want them to be perfect out the gate they are all going to have bad decisions, bad throws, etc. on film to point at. Again take my opinion with a grain of salt but I think Mac seems to place the ball where guys can keep running with it the most where as Fields has that arm strength to where he is just as accurate but puts the ball "on" his guys more often (compared to a foot or two in front).

But that also could be due to the style of thrower they are, like Mac doesnt have a rocket so he throws a more catchable/touch type ball where his guys can run into the catch where as Fields has that rocket and drives the ball into the receiver on similar throws. Both styles have pros and cons, Mac will really have to rely on a quick release, prove his anticipation and knowledge of the defense to keep defenders from having time to attack the ball while its in the air. Fields on the other hand can drive the ball into guys but will have to keep an eye on floating LBs because those throws dont have the same height and if its not on their receiver, the velocity could lead to more tipped balls going into defenders hands. Both styles can get the ball where it needs to go. Just up to those guys to use their other skills like anticipation or reading through the disguised defense to minimize the risk of their style at the NFL level.

just another reason why evaluating is so hard cause anyone can nitpick these guys into oblivion and make all 3 QB prospects look undeserving of being a FQB.

Sure, they will all have warts. But, we're talking about the things that are supposed to be his super power that have him in the discussion for top 5. Jones is limited physically comparted to these other guys, but his redeeming factor is supposed to be that he can do all these fundamental things better than anybody else. He's accurate, reads defenses correctly and quickly, processes information fast, ect. But on film it's just not that much better, or even better at all, from the other guys. Plus, those are the things that as a coach you are more confident you can help a guy with. You know you can't coach them to be bigger, faster, or throw harder and you probably can't do much to fix a mechanical issue. Fields doesn't need any help on those uncoachable things, and because he's so high on those he isn't going to even need to be perfect on the coachable ones to be a great QB. Jones is going to have to be absolutely perfect to make up for his limitations, and that's not what we see on the film and probably not something we should expect to achieve.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
And yet he's fielded top offense after top offense with QBs that arent perceived to have the best arms or mobility in the NFL.

Notice how you are forced to use the term "top offense" instead of "top passing offense" during his tenure here.

You are going to be waiting a long long time if you think Shanahan is going to try and change to a top passing offense. Plus I would venture to guess most would rather have a top offense focused on the run vs the pass come playoff time. Having both would be great, but realistically no matter who gets drafted it will be years before a change like that would be made... this roster is built to run at the moment.

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick
Jones - Good decision making, hits multiple reads, great ball placement but can be mechanically inconsistent on longballs (dips his shoulder) which causes him to come up short on some longballs. He has the arm strength to make all the throws, but isnt gonna scramble and hit a 60 yarder on the run. But then says no OC draws up 60 yards in the air type plays, if you can hit guys at 50 yards in stride that is what is more important. His criticism of other criticisms... the mobility issue, said it's not as big a deal cause with the quick release and his quick decision making he does a good job dumping the ball off to the RB or throws it away to avoid taking the sack.

When I watch Jones, I really don't see this consistently. Does he have some really nice throws that are very well placed? Yes. But more often his throws are short or behind guys. Throws that should be out in front of the receiver, but the WR has to turn his body back toward the QB to catch. They usually get completed because Smith/Waddle/Metchie have 2-3 yards of separation (or the DB has fallen down), but in the NFL, a lot of these passes would be broken up.

To be fair, that shows up on everyones film. It's also what makes it hard to judge as well... these guys are college QBs not pros. As much as we want them to be perfect out the gate they are all going to have bad decisions, bad throws, etc. on film to point at. Again take my opinion with a grain of salt but I think Mac seems to place the ball where guys can keep running with it the most where as Fields has that arm strength to where he is just as accurate but puts the ball "on" his guys more often (compared to a foot or two in front).

But that also could be due to the style of thrower they are, like Mac doesnt have a rocket so he throws a more catchable/touch type ball where his guys can run into the catch where as Fields has that rocket and drives the ball into the receiver on similar throws. Both styles have pros and cons, Mac will really have to rely on a quick release, prove his anticipation and knowledge of the defense to keep defenders from having time to attack the ball while its in the air. Fields on the other hand can drive the ball into guys but will have to keep an eye on floating LBs because those throws dont have the same height and if its not on their receiver, the velocity could lead to more tipped balls going into defenders hands. Both styles can get the ball where it needs to go. Just up to those guys to use their other skills like anticipation or reading through the disguised defense to minimize the risk of their style at the NFL level.

just another reason why evaluating is so hard cause anyone can nitpick these guys into oblivion and make all 3 QB prospects look undeserving of being a FQB.

Sure, they will all have warts. But, we're talking about the things that are supposed to be his super power that have him in the discussion for top 5. Jones is limited physically comparted to these other guys, but his redeeming factor is supposed to be that he can do all these fundamental things better than anybody else. He's accurate, reads defenses correctly and quickly, processes information fast, ect. But on film it's just not that much better, or even better at all, from the other guys. Plus, those are the things that as a coach you are more confident you can help a guy with. You know you can't coach them to be bigger, faster, or throw harder and you probably can't do much to fix a mechanical issue. Fields doesn't need any help on those uncoachable things, and because he's so high on those he isn't going to even need to be perfect on the coachable ones to be a great QB. Jones is going to have to be absolutely perfect to make up for his limitations, and that's not what we see on the film and probably not something we should expect to achieve.

Yes! Thank you

Originally posted by boomer49er:
Sure, they will all have warts. But, we're talking about the things that are supposed to be his super power that have him in the discussion for top 5. Jones is limited physically comparted to these other guys, but his redeeming factor is supposed to be that he can do all these fundamental things better than anybody else. He's accurate, reads defenses correctly and quickly, processes information fast, ect. But on film it's just not that much better, or even better at all, from the other guys. Plus, those are the things that as a coach you are more confident you can help a guy with. You know you can't coach them to be bigger, faster, or throw harder and you probably can't do much to fix a mechanical issue. Fields doesn't need any help on those uncoachable things, and because he's so high on those he isn't going to even need to be perfect on the coachable ones to be a great QB. Jones is going to have to be absolutely perfect to make up for his limitations, and that's not what we see on the film and probably not something we should expect to achieve.

I agree there. Jones will have to be perfect with all the "other" skills people pump up about him while Fields will have a larger margin of error due to his athleticism.

I like Mac and think he would be successful under Shanny but also think that for how much the trade gave up, they need to take into account the X factor of athleticism. I dont think athleticism should be THE deciding attribute for a QB... but all things being equal... if Shanny feels they will both develop well then you gotta go for that extra X factor. But if people think the offense will all of a sudden look different for a QB who can run a 4.4 they are in a pipe dream. Fields is a throwing QB that can run, RG3 was a running QB who could throw. They had to change the offense for RG3 to be successful, they wont have to with fields and Shanny doesnt want his QB getting hit if he can avoid it.

I like Mac and I would've been happy taking him at #12 or maybe a little trade up but to give up the capital we did, the guy you draft needs to be special. So I continue to ask, how is Mac Jones better than an average NFL Qb? Not very athletic, not a great arm, but can process well. Isn't that every NFL backup quarterback? Why not just sign Ryan Fitzpatrick?

Been out of this thread for a while. What's this week's reason to hate him?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I wrote about the differences between Tua Tagovailoa and Mac Jones as college passers, and how those differences affected the offensive scheme in Alabama.

And how no offense in my charting history has helped a QB more than 2020 Bama helped Mac Jones. https://t.co/TP5G0lyVEF

— Benjamin Solak (@BenjaminSolak) April 12, 2021

(+ had the best OL in the nation and maybe of the last 5 years)

— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) April 12, 2021

I think that's something everyone already suspected, but it's nice to see it confirmed.

Put him on another team and he's probably a mid round pick at best.