Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
No, he doesn't have a noodle arm, but of the top 5 QBs, he has the weakest arm.

I really like Mac...but it sure seems to me he has just enough arm.

Maybe he has insane control and only throws as hard as he has too....but I can't shake the feeling if he suffered a Jimmy G injury he could be non-functional. I could see old man Payton manning if the dude takes too many NFL hits in his career.

I get everyone's concern on this for the cost of the QB

I think Jones understand that he's physically limited. His arm is probably average at the NFL level.

When I watch him I see a guy that's hesitant to make throws if there's much risk in them. That's why he didn't turn the ball over much. He's kind of got a backup QB mentality of "I'm not going to lose this thing for us." That led to him going with checkdowns more often and passing up on some potentially bigger plays, even some that I think were very open and not especially risky throws. This actually served him well at Alabama where he had elite players and getting them the ball was always a good idea, even if it wasn't always the best option he had available. However, in the NFL I think that approach isn't going to work. Defenses will catch on and the offenses don't have the sheer talent to just beat most defenses. He's going to protect the ball, but I also don't think he's going to be capable of make much happen on his own. That kind of reminds me of Alex Smith under Nolan when he was afraid to make any mistakes so he'd just throw it away a ton.

There are some bad interceptions on Fields tape, but I'm not that bothered by them. Mostly, they are the product of him trying to make something happen. I think you can clean that up, but he's confident for good reason. He'll make more amazing plays than ones that have you saying WTF. I think the OSU offense with it's long routes and not especially good pass protection led to some of those issues as well, to be honest.

Right. "Fast processing" and "risk averse" can look a lot alike, but ultimately the former is Brees and the later is Alex Smith.

Agreed. Jones seems like maybe he could have a Brees-like career if he pans out like some of the best-case scenarios suggest (Brees didn't take off until he went to the Saints, if you guys recall). Jones has a lot to like, but I can certainly agree with the point where I don't see how he provides much more upside than Jimmy G. He might be able to limit turnovers a little bit better, and maybe stay healthier while cutting our cost, but none of those are guarantees outside of the smaller salary.

No matter what we do, we're taking a big risk.

Very Best case scenario - Keep in mind I'm a true blue optimist - is way beyond Brees. With Kyle behind the scenes setting everything up, if Mac (Fields or Trey) can execute his offense the way Kyle wants it. Sky is the limit, very very best case scenario, we have another Brady or Steve Young.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by jcs:
And Fields only threw for 114 yards and two picks against Northwestern in the Big 10 Championship...if it wasn't for his 5 star RB rushing for 331 yards and 2 TD's to carry him and Ohio State into that victory they wouldn't have even made it into the playoffs. Just two games later Fields only managed 194 yards in the biggest game of his career only to see his team blown out by a Mac Jones led Alabama.

But Lance on the other hand gets knocked for his 80 yards passing despite winning the FCS championship on a 40 yard TD run to add to his 166 yards on the ground that day.

Lance has the intangibles of a winner and you shouldn't fault him for the play calls his team makes.

Strange you leave out fields having one of the greatest performances in playoff history and doing it w broken ribs

Because it has nothing to do with the OP.

Fields was carried by his all star team in the big 10 championship not the other way around. Lance on the other hand had to literally carry his team to a national championship victory sealing the game with a 44 yard TD run to seal the victory for his team.

Both had bad passing numbers in their games except lance was finding a way to win where fields was watching his rb do it for him. Sure he had a career game against Clemson but then quickly came back down to earth against a Jones led Alabama posting his third worst game of the season in the national championship.

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
No, he doesn't have a noodle arm, but of the top 5 QBs, he has the weakest arm.

I really like Mac...but it sure seems to me he has just enough arm.

Maybe he has insane control and only throws as hard as he has too....but I can't shake the feeling if he suffered a Jimmy G injury he could be non-functional. I could see old man Payton manning if the dude takes too many NFL hits in his career.

I get everyone's concern on this for the cost of the QB

I think Jones understand that he's physically limited. His arm is probably average at the NFL level.

When I watch him I see a guy that's hesitant to make throws if there's much risk in them. That's why he didn't turn the ball over much. He's kind of got a backup QB mentality of "I'm not going to lose this thing for us." That led to him going with checkdowns more often and passing up on some potentially bigger plays, even some that I think were very open and not especially risky throws. This actually served him well at Alabama where he had elite players and getting them the ball was always a good idea, even if it wasn't always the best option he had available. However, in the NFL I think that approach isn't going to work. Defenses will catch on and the offenses don't have the sheer talent to just beat most defenses. He's going to protect the ball, but I also don't think he's going to be capable of make much happen on his own. That kind of reminds me of Alex Smith under Nolan when he was afraid to make any mistakes so he'd just throw it away a ton.

There are some bad interceptions on Fields tape, but I'm not that bothered by them. Mostly, they are the product of him trying to make something happen. I think you can clean that up, but he's confident for good reason. He'll make more amazing plays than ones that have you saying WTF. I think the OSU offense with it's long routes and not especially good pass protection led to some of those issues as well, to be honest.

Right. "Fast processing" and "risk averse" can look a lot alike, but ultimately the former is Brees and the later is Alex Smith.

Agreed. Jones seems like maybe he could have a Brees-like career if he pans out like some of the best-case scenarios suggest (Brees didn't take off until he went to the Saints, if you guys recall). Jones has a lot to like, but I can certainly agree with the point where I don't see how he provides much more upside than Jimmy G. He might be able to limit turnovers a little bit better, and maybe stay healthier while cutting our cost, but none of those are guarantees outside of the smaller salary.

No matter what we do, we're taking a big risk.

Yea, I wish there was more meat on the Jimmy G vs Jones debate. We can all see the ways that Fields could be an upgrade over Jimmy - mobility, arm strength, deep ball accuracy, etc.

But what about Mac Jones? What makes him a possible upgrade over Jimmy? Health and cost? Has to be more, right?

He's mildly worse than Jimmy in every way except health (maybe) and cost. That said, a healthy Jimmy G would be a big improvement. We're likely a playoff team consistently then.

First it was Tom Brady, then Joe Montana. Now he's Drew Brees? Oh brother

Originally posted by leonbanton:
First it was Tom Brady, then Joe Montana. Now he's Drew Brees? Oh brother

I think he most favorably compares to eli manning. Similar athletic ability, build and arm strength.

If he has a similar career he'll be well worth the pick.

Originally posted by leonbanton:
First it was Tom Brady, then Joe Montana. Now he's Drew Brees? Oh brother

eventually it will fall down to my Ken Dorsey comparison

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by leonbanton:
First it was Tom Brady, then Joe Montana. Now he's Drew Brees? Oh brother

I think he most favorably compares to eli manning. Similar athletic ability, build and arm strength.

If he has a similar career he'll be well worth the pick.

A career QB rating of 84.

Yea, he won two Super Bowls due to their defense. Their offense only scored more than 24 points in the playoffs one time in 12 games and his playoff QB rating isn't much different from his career. NO THANKS!

Originally posted by leonbanton:
First it was Tom Brady, then Joe Montana. Now he's Drew Brees? Oh brother

I am going to say who I see.
A less experienced AJ McCarron.
Strengths:

• Limits mistakes
• Makes good decisions
• Quality game-manager
• Field vision
• Ball security
• Distributes the ball to a variety of weapons
• Good on touch passes
• Basis for good footwork
• Accurate
• Improved throughout college
• Intelligent

Matt Leinart Same profile And I think he drank in college

Mark Sanchez I really see this. Hopefully not rushed in development like Mark

Sam Bradford Had a good system around him, overall I think it came to be understood he was over rated

This guy is these guys.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
No, he doesn't have a noodle arm, but of the top 5 QBs, he has the weakest arm.

I really like Mac...but it sure seems to me he has just enough arm.

Maybe he has insane control and only throws as hard as he has too....but I can't shake the feeling if he suffered a Jimmy G injury he could be non-functional. I could see old man Payton manning if the dude takes too many NFL hits in his career.

I get everyone's concern on this for the cost of the QB

I think Jones understand that he's physically limited. His arm is probably average at the NFL level.

When I watch him I see a guy that's hesitant to make throws if there's much risk in them. That's why he didn't turn the ball over much. He's kind of got a backup QB mentality of "I'm not going to lose this thing for us." That led to him going with checkdowns more often and passing up on some potentially bigger plays, even some that I think were very open and not especially risky throws. This actually served him well at Alabama where he had elite players and getting them the ball was always a good idea, even if it wasn't always the best option he had available. However, in the NFL I think that approach isn't going to work. Defenses will catch on and the offenses don't have the sheer talent to just beat most defenses. He's going to protect the ball, but I also don't think he's going to be capable of make much happen on his own. That kind of reminds me of Alex Smith under Nolan when he was afraid to make any mistakes so he'd just throw it away a ton.

There are some bad interceptions on Fields tape, but I'm not that bothered by them. Mostly, they are the product of him trying to make something happen. I think you can clean that up, but he's confident for good reason. He'll make more amazing plays than ones that have you saying WTF. I think the OSU offense with it's long routes and not especially good pass protection led to some of those issues as well, to be honest.

Right. "Fast processing" and "risk averse" can look a lot alike, but ultimately the former is Brees and the later is Alex Smith.

Agreed. Jones seems like maybe he could have a Brees-like career if he pans out like some of the best-case scenarios suggest (Brees didn't take off until he went to the Saints, if you guys recall). Jones has a lot to like, but I can certainly agree with the point where I don't see how he provides much more upside than Jimmy G. He might be able to limit turnovers a little bit better, and maybe stay healthier while cutting our cost, but none of those are guarantees outside of the smaller salary.

No matter what we do, we're taking a big risk.

Yea, I wish there was more meat on the Jimmy G vs Jones debate. We can all see the ways that Fields could be an upgrade over Jimmy - mobility, arm strength, deep ball accuracy, etc.

But what about Mac Jones? What makes him a possible upgrade over Jimmy? Health and cost? Has to be more, right?

He's mildly worse than Jimmy in every way except health (maybe) and cost. That said, a healthy Jimmy G would be a big improvement. We're likely a playoff team consistently then.

You guys are just talking nonsense. See this kind of stuff makes me like Mac even more. People who just blindly bash Mac and do not know what they are talking about. Mac is not comparable to Jimmy.

Jimmy was a 2nd round pick coming from Eastern Illinois, Mac is going in the top 10 of the first round and started for the best college football program on the planet.

Jimmy throws an awful deepball. Mac Throws an amazing deepball. In fact, he had a better passer rating throwing deep than both Fields and Lance.

Mac is insanely accurate. He just broke the all-time record for completion percentage for a season at 77.4% completion percentage. He did that while throwing for 4500 yards 11.2 Y/A against an all-SEC schedule. Ending in an undefeated national championship season.

Jimmy has had turnover problems. Mac takes care of the football, he had a 41/4 TD/Int ratio.

The only thing they might compare at is from a running athletic standpoint. And Mac still Tested better than him as an athlete.

We might as well be comparing Kap with Fields. It is complete nonsense.

No need to worry anymore, Kiper Jr. is the latest hack to give us Jones and we all know he's about as dumb AF mocking. Rest easy people.

Originally posted by Bloodless:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
No, he doesn't have a noodle arm, but of the top 5 QBs, he has the weakest arm.

I really like Mac...but it sure seems to me he has just enough arm.

Maybe he has insane control and only throws as hard as he has too....but I can't shake the feeling if he suffered a Jimmy G injury he could be non-functional. I could see old man Payton manning if the dude takes too many NFL hits in his career.

I get everyone's concern on this for the cost of the QB

I think Jones understand that he's physically limited. His arm is probably average at the NFL level.

When I watch him I see a guy that's hesitant to make throws if there's much risk in them. That's why he didn't turn the ball over much. He's kind of got a backup QB mentality of "I'm not going to lose this thing for us." That led to him going with checkdowns more often and passing up on some potentially bigger plays, even some that I think were very open and not especially risky throws. This actually served him well at Alabama where he had elite players and getting them the ball was always a good idea, even if it wasn't always the best option he had available. However, in the NFL I think that approach isn't going to work. Defenses will catch on and the offenses don't have the sheer talent to just beat most defenses. He's going to protect the ball, but I also don't think he's going to be capable of make much happen on his own. That kind of reminds me of Alex Smith under Nolan when he was afraid to make any mistakes so he'd just throw it away a ton.

There are some bad interceptions on Fields tape, but I'm not that bothered by them. Mostly, they are the product of him trying to make something happen. I think you can clean that up, but he's confident for good reason. He'll make more amazing plays than ones that have you saying WTF. I think the OSU offense with it's long routes and not especially good pass protection led to some of those issues as well, to be honest.

Right. "Fast processing" and "risk averse" can look a lot alike, but ultimately the former is Brees and the later is Alex Smith.

Agreed. Jones seems like maybe he could have a Brees-like career if he pans out like some of the best-case scenarios suggest (Brees didn't take off until he went to the Saints, if you guys recall). Jones has a lot to like, but I can certainly agree with the point where I don't see how he provides much more upside than Jimmy G. He might be able to limit turnovers a little bit better, and maybe stay healthier while cutting our cost, but none of those are guarantees outside of the smaller salary.

No matter what we do, we're taking a big risk.

Yea, I wish there was more meat on the Jimmy G vs Jones debate. We can all see the ways that Fields could be an upgrade over Jimmy - mobility, arm strength, deep ball accuracy, etc.

But what about Mac Jones? What makes him a possible upgrade over Jimmy? Health and cost? Has to be more, right?

He's mildly worse than Jimmy in every way except health (maybe) and cost. That said, a healthy Jimmy G would be a big improvement. We're likely a playoff team consistently then.

You guys are just talking nonsense. See this kind of stuff makes me like Mac even more. People who just blindly bash Mac and do not know what they are talking about. Mac is not comparable to Jimmy.

Jimmy was a 2nd round pick coming from Eastern Illinois, Mac is going in the top 10 of the first round and started for the best college football program on the planet.

Jimmy throws an awful deepball. Mac Throws an amazing deepball. In fact, he had a better passer rating throwing deep than both Fields and Lance.

Mac is insanely accurate. He just broke the all-time record for completion percentage for a season at 77.4% completion percentage. He did that while throwing for 4500 yards 11.2 Y/A against an all-SEC schedule. Ending in an undefeated national championship season.

Jimmy has had turnover problems. Mac takes care of the football, he had a 41/4 TD/Int ratio.

The only thing they might compare at is from a running athletic standpoint. And Mac still Tested better than him as an athlete.

We might as well be comparing Kap with Fields. It is complete nonsense.

You're comparing what Jimmy has done in the pros to what Mac did in college while surrounded by the 1st round talent at almost every position. They're not comparable. Jimmy was a good deep ball thrower in college. He also would have gone in the first round if he had gone to a bigger school (such as Alabama). There is absolutely zero evidence to support the idea that Jones will be a better pro than Jimmy. If we select Jones, it's not because we want to move on from Jimmy, it's because we want some insurance at the backup position in case Jimmy gets hurt again.

Originally posted by ninerjok:
No need to worry anymore, Kiper Jr. is the latest hack to give us Jones and we all know he's about as dumb AF mocking. Rest easy people.

LOL true. Kiper picks Mac because "he talked to people in the league and everyone points to Mac". What people?? Who are your sources?? Dude is just speculating up the ass.

Originally posted by BMoore56:
Kiper is scaring me

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by leonbanton:
First it was Tom Brady, then Joe Montana. Now he's Drew Brees? Oh brother

I think he most favorably compares to eli manning. Similar athletic ability, build and arm strength.

If he has a similar career he'll be well worth the pick.

A career QB rating of 84.

Yea, he won two Super Bowls due to their defense. Their offense only scored more than 24 points in the playoffs one time in 12 games and his playoff QB rating isn't much different from his career. NO THANKS!

Yes the Giants had a top 10 defense when Eli won SB #1 but they were far from that the second time. Both of those wins came VS the Pats and Brady. The first time the Pat's had the top ranked D, the second time the Pat's had the 3rd ranked D.

And in the first SB he led the game winning drive to win that SB. The second SB they were down 8 midway thru the 3rd and he led them to score FGs on two drives then marched them down late in the 4th for the game winning TD. Defense stepped up and played big in both games but so did Eli and he was part of why they did win.

As to his career passer rating of 84.1, it sits around that of HOF'ers Favre's (86) and Dan Marino (86.4) , Jim Kelly (84.4) and Troy Aikman (81.6).

Context matters.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by leonbanton:
First it was Tom Brady, then Joe Montana. Now he's Drew Brees? Oh brother

I think he most favorably compares to eli manning. Similar athletic ability, build and arm strength.

If he has a similar career he'll be well worth the pick.

A career QB rating of 84.

Yea, he won two Super Bowls due to their defense. Their offense only scored more than 24 points in the playoffs one time in 12 games and his playoff QB rating isn't much different from his career. NO THANKS!

Yes the Giants had a top 10 defense when Eli won SB #1 but they were far from that the second time. Both of those wins came VS the Pats and Brady. The first time the Pat's had the top ranked D, the second time the Pat's had the 3rd ranked D.

And in the first SB he led the game winning drive to win that SB. The second SB they were down 8 midway thru the 3rd and he led them to score FGs on two drives then marched them down late in the 4th for the game winning TD.

As to his career passer rating of 84.1, it sits around that of HOF'ers Favre's (86) and Dan Marino (86.4) , Jim Kelly (84.4) and Troy Aikman (81.6).

Context matters.

"context matters" you say as you list QBs that played in a different era than Eli, thus ignoring some really important context. How does Eli's career QB rating compare against his peers that played during the same era?

He was not a good QB across his career. He had some good moments in clutch time, but it was largely his team that won the Super Bowl. If his last name wasn't Manning, he would never even be considered for the HoF.