Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If we were drafting a QB for the next year or two, Then Yes maybe Mac Should be the pick but this is about getting your franchise QB for the next decade. Is Fields or Lance as good as Mac right now at proccessing and accuracy? Probally not but they could be in the future and if that happens you got yourselves a top 3 QB based on all their other Physical tools. The stuff Mac Jones can't do he will never be able to. I don't think anybody is denying can't be a good QB but when you are trading two future 1st RD picks and a 3rd you are looking for a guy who can be the best of the best. That should be the players ceiling and potential. Even the Jones supporters such as Simms don't even mention him being among the best if he reaches his potential. They just say he could be a really good QB. But what is really good? Cousins is a good QB but he isn't elite. There is reason Cousins hasn't been able to take the Vikings to the next level despite being decent and being part of many decent Vikings teams. He just doesn't have that extra level that is needed.

Yeah, but that extra level doesn't need to be a cannon arm and the ability to run around like a march hare. Maybe Jones already has the extra level and it resides between his ears rather than in his limbs.

Think Drew Brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady. What about those three guys led to them collectively dominating the league for the better part of the last two decades? None of em can run and none have cannons for an arm.

I don't mind Mac but in a week the conversation has gone from "good processor" to "best processor in the draft" to "best processor scouts have ever talked to" to " only 21 but possibly an MVP or NFL champion-level processor." Either the praise/projecting has gotten ahead of itself or this dude should actually be working for NASA.

.

Originally posted by 1swift:

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If we were drafting a QB for the next year or two, Then Yes maybe Mac Should be the pick but this is about getting your franchise QB for the next decade. Is Fields or Lance as good as Mac right now at proccessing and accuracy? Probally not but they could be in the future and if that happens you got yourselves a top 3 QB based on all their other Physical tools. The stuff Mac Jones can't do he will never be able to. I don't think anybody is denying can't be a good QB but when you are trading two future 1st RD picks and a 3rd you are looking for a guy who can be the best of the best. That should be the players ceiling and potential. Even the Jones supporters such as Simms don't even mention him being among the best if he reaches his potential. They just say he could be a really good QB. But what is really good? Cousins is a good QB but he isn't elite. There is reason Cousins hasn't been able to take the Vikings to the next level despite being decent and being part of many decent Vikings teams. He just doesn't have that extra level that is needed.

Yeah, but that extra level doesn't need to be a cannon arm and the ability to run around like a march hare. Maybe Jones already has the extra level and it resides between his ears rather than in his limbs.

What if what's between his ears is the same or worse as the guys who also have plus arms and athleticism...There's some chance that Lance and/or Fields is every bit as smart as Mac on the football field when it all comes down to it...There's no chance Mac's arm or athleticism (no matter how sneaky it may be) catches up to either of those two even if he loses the beer gut....That potential for the full package has got to be worth something.

I gather that, based on the film, there is some degree of consensus that Mac has an edge when it comes to processing speed and recognition of defenses, whether that be right or wrong. Not general intelligence, mind you, as all these guys are extremely intelligent but intelligence can manifest in different ways.

I happen to believe that there is definitely room for improvement in Mac's physical areas, just based on his current physique. How much so is not possible to quantify.

But, you are correct, if either Fields or Lance are actually on par or better in that regard, then that would put them ahead of Jones of course.

But, despite what is said here and elsewhere, this is exactly what Kyle and John are paid millions to figure out. All I can say is good luck to them and I hope they get it right, whoever they ultimately decide on.

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If we were drafting a QB for the next year or two, Then Yes maybe Mac Should be the pick but this is about getting your franchise QB for the next decade. Is Fields or Lance as good as Mac right now at proccessing and accuracy? Probally not but they could be in the future and if that happens you got yourselves a top 3 QB based on all their other Physical tools. The stuff Mac Jones can't do he will never be able to. I don't think anybody is denying can't be a good QB but when you are trading two future 1st RD picks and a 3rd you are looking for a guy who can be the best of the best. That should be the players ceiling and potential. Even the Jones supporters such as Simms don't even mention him being among the best if he reaches his potential. They just say he could be a really good QB. But what is really good? Cousins is a good QB but he isn't elite. There is reason Cousins hasn't been able to take the Vikings to the next level despite being decent and being part of many decent Vikings teams. He just doesn't have that extra level that is needed.

Yeah, but that extra level doesn't need to be a cannon arm and the ability to run around like a march hare. Maybe Jones already has the extra level and it resides between his ears rather than in his limbs.

Think Drew Brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady. What about those three guys led to them collectively dominating the league for the better part of the last two decades? None of em can run and none have cannons for an arm.

I don't mind Mac but in a week the conversation has gone from "good processor" to "best processor in the draft" to "best processor scouts have ever talked to" to " only 21 but possibly an MVP or NFL champion-level processor." Either the praise/projecting has gotten ahead of itself or this dude should actually be working for NASA.

.

It's called projecting upside or best case. No one minds Lawrence being compared to Elway, Wilson to Rodgers. All these Fields fans think he's what... Maybe a Watson without the creeper stuff. Mac was always the best processor in the draft. When you're talking about best case for a guy who's strengths are elite processing and accuracy and who's weakness is athleticism you look at the guys I've mentioned. That's the type of player you're hoping for. The spectrum ranges from Dalton to cousins to Ryan to Brady.

Mac Jones ceiling is a more efficient Jamie's Winston.

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If we were drafting a QB for the next year or two, Then Yes maybe Mac Should be the pick but this is about getting your franchise QB for the next decade. Is Fields or Lance as good as Mac right now at proccessing and accuracy? Probally not but they could be in the future and if that happens you got yourselves a top 3 QB based on all their other Physical tools. The stuff Mac Jones can't do he will never be able to. I don't think anybody is denying can't be a good QB but when you are trading two future 1st RD picks and a 3rd you are looking for a guy who can be the best of the best. That should be the players ceiling and potential. Even the Jones supporters such as Simms don't even mention him being among the best if he reaches his potential. They just say he could be a really good QB. But what is really good? Cousins is a good QB but he isn't elite. There is reason Cousins hasn't been able to take the Vikings to the next level despite being decent and being part of many decent Vikings teams. He just doesn't have that extra level that is needed.

Yeah, but that extra level doesn't need to be a cannon arm and the ability to run around like a march hare. Maybe Jones already has the extra level and it resides between his ears rather than in his limbs.

Think Drew Brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady. What about those three guys led to them collectively dominating the league for the better part of the last two decades? None of em can run and none have cannons for an arm.

I don't mind Mac but in a week the conversation has gone from "good processor" to "best processor in the draft" to "best processor scouts have ever talked to" to " only 21 but possibly an MVP or NFL champion-level processor." Either the praise/projecting has gotten ahead of itself or this dude should actually be working for NASA.

.

It's called projecting upside or best case. No one minds Lawrence being compared to Elway, Wilson to Rodgers. All these Fields fans think he's what... Maybe a Watson without the creeper stuff. Mac was always the best processor in the draft. When you're talking about best case for a guy who's strengths are elite processing and accuracy and who's weakness is athleticism you look at the guys I've mentioned. That's the type of player you're hoping for. The spectrum ranges from Dalton to cousins to Ryan to Brady.

Lawrence is far from Elway. His throwing ability is nowhere near Elway.

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If we were drafting a QB for the next year or two, Then Yes maybe Mac Should be the pick but this is about getting your franchise QB for the next decade. Is Fields or Lance as good as Mac right now at proccessing and accuracy? Probally not but they could be in the future and if that happens you got yourselves a top 3 QB based on all their other Physical tools. The stuff Mac Jones can't do he will never be able to. I don't think anybody is denying can't be a good QB but when you are trading two future 1st RD picks and a 3rd you are looking for a guy who can be the best of the best. That should be the players ceiling and potential. Even the Jones supporters such as Simms don't even mention him being among the best if he reaches his potential. They just say he could be a really good QB. But what is really good? Cousins is a good QB but he isn't elite. There is reason Cousins hasn't been able to take the Vikings to the next level despite being decent and being part of many decent Vikings teams. He just doesn't have that extra level that is needed.

Yeah, but that extra level doesn't need to be a cannon arm and the ability to run around like a march hare. Maybe Jones already has the extra level and it resides between his ears rather than in his limbs.

Think Drew Brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady. What about those three guys led to them collectively dominating the league for the better part of the last two decades? None of em can run and none have cannons for an arm.

I don't mind Mac but in a week the conversation has gone from "good processor" to "best processor in the draft" to "best processor scouts have ever talked to" to " only 21 but possibly an MVP or NFL champion-level processor." Either the praise/projecting has gotten ahead of itself or this dude should actually be working for NASA.

.

It's called projecting upside or best case. No one minds Lawrence being compared to Elway, Wilson to Rodgers. All these Fields fans think he's what... Maybe a Watson without the creeper stuff. Mac was always the best processor in the draft. When you're talking about best case for a guy who's strengths are elite processing and accuracy and who's weakness is athleticism you look at the guys I've mentioned. That's the type of player you're hoping for. The spectrum ranges from Dalton to cousins to Ryan to Brady.

No one seriously thought his upside was Brady/Manning/Brees until about a week ago. No one considered him a potential Hall of Famer even during his historic season. Would be nice if it happened, I guess. But the comps don't seem to be based in much except, you know, Guys With Average Arms Who Think Good.

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If we were drafting a QB for the next year or two, Then Yes maybe Mac Should be the pick but this is about getting your franchise QB for the next decade. Is Fields or Lance as good as Mac right now at proccessing and accuracy? Probally not but they could be in the future and if that happens you got yourselves a top 3 QB based on all their other Physical tools. The stuff Mac Jones can't do he will never be able to. I don't think anybody is denying can't be a good QB but when you are trading two future 1st RD picks and a 3rd you are looking for a guy who can be the best of the best. That should be the players ceiling and potential. Even the Jones supporters such as Simms don't even mention him being among the best if he reaches his potential. They just say he could be a really good QB. But what is really good? Cousins is a good QB but he isn't elite. There is reason Cousins hasn't been able to take the Vikings to the next level despite being decent and being part of many decent Vikings teams. He just doesn't have that extra level that is needed.

Yeah, but that extra level doesn't need to be a cannon arm and the ability to run around like a march hare. Maybe Jones already has the extra level and it resides between his ears rather than in his limbs.

Think Drew Brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady. What about those three guys led to them collectively dominating the league for the better part of the last two decades? None of em can run and none have cannons for an arm.

I don't mind Mac but in a week the conversation has gone from "good processor" to "best processor in the draft" to "best processor scouts have ever talked to" to " only 21 but possibly an MVP or NFL champion-level processor." Either the praise/projecting has gotten ahead of itself or this dude should actually be working for NASA.

.

It's called projecting upside or best case. No one minds Lawrence being compared to Elway, Wilson to Rodgers. All these Fields fans think he's what... Maybe a Watson without the creeper stuff. Mac was always the best processor in the draft. When you're talking about best case for a guy who's strengths are elite processing and accuracy and who's weakness is athleticism you look at the guys I've mentioned. That's the type of player you're hoping for. The spectrum ranges from Dalton to cousins to Ryan to Brady.

No one seriously thought his upside was Brady/Manning/Brees until about a week ago. No one considered him a potential Hall of Famer even during his historic season. Would be nice if it happened, I guess. But the comps don't seem to be based in much except, you know, Guys With Average Arms Who Think Good.

Saban saw him every day in practice and didn't see that either, unless he thought Tua was better that Brady/Manning/Brees

I think him and Joe have the same arm strength and we know what Joe did in the league. Not saying he's going to be Joe, but he has the tools to carve out his own niche in Niner lore.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I think him and Joe have the same arm strength and we know what Joe did in the league. Not saying he's going to be Joe, but he has the tools to carve out his own niche in Niner lore.

I hope the kid wins 10 Super Bowls and 10 MVPs if the Niners draft him. Would be great. For now, I just don't want to pretend he's the second coming of anything just because the Niners traded three 1sts for him. Or because Kyle likes him.

It's a win-win when you think about it. If he's great we're all wrong but it doesn't matter because the Niners are winning. But if/when he goes full Cousins and throws a pick-6 at the worst possible time, I'll be fine with that too, because no one honestly thought he was Brady or Brees in the first place.

Originally posted by Nastastical:

Originally posted by roasthawg:
Donovan McNabb comes to mind as one of the most hated picks by the fanbase ever. They wanted Ricky Williams so badly they lost their minds when Donovan was the pick.

Another one was JJ Watt. Texans fans freaked when his name was announced. They were outraged. Didn't last long lol.

Nothing new. Many fans love this time of year because they get to try and earn their make-believe GM badge.

We have no access to ALL the information teams have. No access to medicals, background history, highschool and college coaches/teammates, or interviews with the players where you get to pick their brains. We only get to see the players play and most of us don't even have access to All-22 film, but somehow some feel like they're informed enough to call for Kyle and John's head because draft sites didn't have Jones ranked higher during the college season. Even KC took heat from fans and draft analyst for trading up to select Mahomes. Hell, look at the complaining in here after we selected Aiyuk. Some even complained about Kittle because they thought we wasted a 5th on a blocking TE.

The silliness of all this is mind boggling.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Nastastical:

Originally posted by roasthawg:
Donovan McNabb comes to mind as one of the most hated picks by the fanbase ever. They wanted Ricky Williams so badly they lost their minds when Donovan was the pick.

Another one was JJ Watt. Texans fans freaked when his name was announced. They were outraged. Didn't last long lol.

Nothing new. Many fans love this time of year because they get to try and earn their make-believe GM badge.

We have no access to ALL the information teams have. No access to medicals, background history, highschool and college coaches/teammates, or interviews with the players where you get to pick their brains. We only get to see the players play and most of us don't even have access to All-22 film, but somehow some feel like they're informed enough to call for Kyle and John's head because draft sites didn't have Jones ranked higher during the college season. Even KC took heat from fans and draft analyst for trading up to select Mahomes. Hell, look at the complaining in here after we selected Aiyuk. Some even complained about Kittle because they thought we wasted a 5th on a blocking TE.

The silliness of all this is mind boggling.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Mac Jones ceiling is a more efficient Jamie's Winston.

I think we should ban all ceiling talk, no one knows what a prospect is going to be like in the league, good or bad.

It's fair to talk about ranges, and how certain skills may or may not translate, but for Mac he could really be anything from Brady/Brees to Nathan Peterman.

What I do know is that there might not be a better situation for him than us.

If Mac is the pick I'll root for him to become that higher level. I'll even try not to look at Fields & Lance with envy, though it'll be hard.

Im just going to flat out say it, trading 3x 1sts for Mac is EPIC FAIL value.

Let's assume Kyle does absolutely love him, he could have stayed at the original pick and let him fall in his lap. The absolute ceiling should have been the Panthers at #8.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by kbarlows1000ydseason:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
If we were drafting a QB for the next year or two, Then Yes maybe Mac Should be the pick but this is about getting your franchise QB for the next decade. Is Fields or Lance as good as Mac right now at proccessing and accuracy? Probally not but they could be in the future and if that happens you got yourselves a top 3 QB based on all their other Physical tools. The stuff Mac Jones can't do he will never be able to. I don't think anybody is denying can't be a good QB but when you are trading two future 1st RD picks and a 3rd you are looking for a guy who can be the best of the best. That should be the players ceiling and potential. Even the Jones supporters such as Simms don't even mention him being among the best if he reaches his potential. They just say he could be a really good QB. But what is really good? Cousins is a good QB but he isn't elite. There is reason Cousins hasn't been able to take the Vikings to the next level despite being decent and being part of many decent Vikings teams. He just doesn't have that extra level that is needed.

Yeah, but that extra level doesn't need to be a cannon arm and the ability to run around like a march hare. Maybe Jones already has the extra level and it resides between his ears rather than in his limbs.

Think Drew Brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady. What about those three guys led to them collectively dominating the league for the better part of the last two decades? None of em can run and none have cannons for an arm.

I don't mind Mac but in a week the conversation has gone from "good processor" to "best processor in the draft" to "best processor scouts have ever talked to" to " only 21 but possibly an MVP or NFL champion-level processor." Either the praise/projecting has gotten ahead of itself or this dude should actually be working for NASA.

.

It's called projecting upside or best case. No one minds Lawrence being compared to Elway, Wilson to Rodgers. All these Fields fans think he's what... Maybe a Watson without the creeper stuff. Mac was always the best processor in the draft. When you're talking about best case for a guy who's strengths are elite processing and accuracy and who's weakness is athleticism you look at the guys I've mentioned. That's the type of player you're hoping for. The spectrum ranges from Dalton to cousins to Ryan to Brady.

No one seriously thought his upside was Brady/Manning/Brees until about a week ago. No one considered him a potential Hall of Famer even during his historic season. Would be nice if it happened, I guess. But the comps don't seem to be based in much except, you know, Guys With Average Arms Who Think Good.

Saban saw him every day in practice and didn't see that either, unless he thought Tua was better that Brady/Manning/Brees

The hyperbole around Mac is some of the most egregious I've ever seen in the pre-draft process but the thing missing is that he had none of this aura during his pre-draft season. This savant as he is supposed to be wasn't seen as that by the ones who saw him most at bama...not exactly inspiring.

Originally posted by Zealot:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Zealot:
Maybe Kyle would be just as pissed that fans think they know better how to evaluate what he can and can't do with a given QB.

"Kyle Shanahan can win w/ any QB"

W-L as play caller by QB

2-10 CJ Beathard
7-12 Brian Hoyer
5-11 Nick Mullens
22-8 Jimmy G
19-13 Matt Ryan
0-2 Johnny Manziel
0-1 Connor Shaw
12-16 RGIII
6-10 Rex Grossman
5-8 McNabb
1-3 Kirk Cousins
0-3 John Beck
15-12 Matt Schaub
2-3 Rosenfels

— Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) April 7, 2021

I have never said Kyle can win with any QB and if I understand correctly, only a couple of those guys were personally selected by him. I don't think anyone was expecting CJ or BDN to be franchise guys. With this #3 pick we're talking about a guy who is expected to be THE guy.

I gotta say this as well, the W-L column doesn't tell the entire story for each QB. For example CJ is not a franchise QB but he out performed any QB selected after him except Mullens. He even outperformed another QB picked ahead of him from a league standpoint. Some of that was because if injuries to Jimmy of course. Some games Were 20+ or 30+ pt games and the opposition scored above that. Ridiculous. Different talent on teams obviously affects this. Mac can win with Kyle, all he has to do is execute Kyle's system. Jimmy does relatively well when healthy but he still misses plays constantly.