Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Furlow:
NO ONE is predicting how it will turn out. We're simply saying if we're going to give up all of that draft capital, then it only makes sense to draft a QB who has the potential to do it all. If we're going to go with a limited QB, then stay at 12, draft one later in the draft, or stick with Jimmy. No reason to trade up for just a "good" QB.

THIS!

all we can do is look at the prospects, do as much homework as we can on them and evaluate. You got 4 QBs with high end traits that can make them top 5 in this league at some point. We have a roster and a coaching staff that should be able to make one of them special imo.

There's a f**k ton of data pointing out that Mac is damn near maxed out and limited in what he can become. There's players in the NFL with the same attributes that are simply good not great QBs. We have one on this team currently.

A lot of people are hoping he becomes something that is simply not realistic. It's not like he's some 4 yr starter (4 yr player though) that's got this big body of work showing he's more than a system QB either. He doesn't have the elite traits to get much better than what he is.

I don't hate Mac and I'll root for him much like I did for every meh QB that we've been forced to watch for 20 yrs. I hope he becomes Brady. I'm also not living in a fantasy land either.

Now you just sound desperate. That's a ridiculous statement.

Pretty much every post comes off desperate. We know he's willing to make stuff up just to pretend he knows what he is talking about though.

Maybe he is "desperate" for a true franchise QB with elite traits who can carry the franchise for a decade or more. I am. Aren't you? Or are you okay with these Shanahan robots?

Yes I am. And willing to find out if Mac can be one. Not going to pretend I already know he can't.

Didn't have to trade up to #3 for Mac.

But OK for Fields or Lance? Weak stance.

Those QB's have the potential to do it ALL, so yes. Mac doesn't. Average arm talent, below average athleticism. If McCorkle was black he'd be a 4th round pick at best.

Ridiculous comment. You think because hes white he went from a 4th round prospect to a top 10 maybe top 5 pick?

i really am questioning your QB evaluation skills now

He has ZERO elite talent. None.

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Furlow:
NO ONE is predicting how it will turn out. We're simply saying if we're going to give up all of that draft capital, then it only makes sense to draft a QB who has the potential to do it all. If we're going to go with a limited QB, then stay at 12, draft one later in the draft, or stick with Jimmy. No reason to trade up for just a "good" QB.

THIS!

all we can do is look at the prospects, do as much homework as we can on them and evaluate. You got 4 QBs with high end traits that can make them top 5 in this league at some point. We have a roster and a coaching staff that should be able to make one of them special imo.

There's a f**k ton of data pointing out that Mac is damn near maxed out and limited in what he can become. There's players in the NFL with the same attributes that are simply good not great QBs. We have one on this team currently.

A lot of people are hoping he becomes something that is simply not realistic. It's not like he's some 4 yr starter (4 yr player though) that's got this big body of work showing he's more than a system QB either. He doesn't have the elite traits to get much better than what he is.

I don't hate Mac and I'll root for him much like I did for every meh QB that we've been forced to watch for 20 yrs. I hope he becomes Brady. I'm also not living in a fantasy land either.

Now you just sound desperate. That's a ridiculous statement.

Pretty much every post comes off desperate. We know he's willing to make stuff up just to pretend he knows what he is talking about though.

Maybe he is "desperate" for a true franchise QB with elite traits who can carry the franchise for a decade or more. I am. Aren't you? Or are you okay with these Shanahan robots?

Yes I am. And willing to find out if Mac can be one. Not going to pretend I already know he can't.

Didn't have to trade up to #3 for Mac.

But OK for Fields or Lance? Weak stance.

Those QB's have the potential to do it ALL, so yes. Mac doesn't. Average arm talent, below average athleticism. If McCorkle was black he'd be a 4th round pick at best.

Ridiculous comment. You think because hes white he went from a 4th round prospect to a top 10 maybe top 5 pick?

i really am questioning your QB evaluation skills now

As a general comment I do not see how bringing race into an already emotional argument can achieve anything of value.

Originally posted by Furlow:
He has ZERO elite talent. None.

If it was that cut and dried the conversation wouldn't be taking place.

Originally posted by SisterFister:
I've read a lot of this thread but may have missed this thought if someone already brought it up. I'm technologically impaired or else I would put up multiple clips. Maybe someone can help me because I think it's valid and most of you know this play.

One of the many reasons why I don't think the pick is Jones is Kyle's play calling on 3rd/4th and short.

How many times over the last 3 years with either Jimmy, CJ, or Mullens did we see Kyle run his favorite shotgun run up the middle on short yardage situations?

You all know the play I'm talking about. Short yardage. Packed LOS. Shotgun. No fullback. Hand off. Right up the middle.

How many times did we complain about this call in the Gameday thread?

With Jones, Jimmy, and Rosen this play is completely worthless. There is absolutely no threat for the 49ers to anything other than run the ball up the gut.

Just an observation. Fields and Lance create more options and offer less predictability.

This is so obvious that it's become painful to have to continue to remind the Shanahan apologists.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Furlow:
He has ZERO elite talent. None.

If it was that cut and dried the conversation wouldn't be taking place.

Yet here we are. The NFL is constantly looking for it's next great white hype at QB. There are many examples of this over the years.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Furlow:
NO ONE is predicting how it will turn out. We're simply saying if we're going to give up all of that draft capital, then it only makes sense to draft a QB who has the potential to do it all. If we're going to go with a limited QB, then stay at 12, draft one later in the draft, or stick with Jimmy. No reason to trade up for just a "good" QB.

THIS!

all we can do is look at the prospects, do as much homework as we can on them and evaluate. You got 4 QBs with high end traits that can make them top 5 in this league at some point. We have a roster and a coaching staff that should be able to make one of them special imo.

There's a f**k ton of data pointing out that Mac is damn near maxed out and limited in what he can become. There's players in the NFL with the same attributes that are simply good not great QBs. We have one on this team currently.

A lot of people are hoping he becomes something that is simply not realistic. It's not like he's some 4 yr starter (4 yr player though) that's got this big body of work showing he's more than a system QB either. He doesn't have the elite traits to get much better than what he is.

I don't hate Mac and I'll root for him much like I did for every meh QB that we've been forced to watch for 20 yrs. I hope he becomes Brady. I'm also not living in a fantasy land either.

Now you just sound desperate. That's a ridiculous statement.

Pretty much every post comes off desperate. We know he's willing to make stuff up just to pretend he knows what he is talking about though.

Maybe he is "desperate" for a true franchise QB with elite traits who can carry the franchise for a decade or more. I am. Aren't you? Or are you okay with these Shanahan robots?

Yes I am. And willing to find out if Mac can be one. Not going to pretend I already know he can't.

Didn't have to trade up to #3 for Mac.

But OK for Fields or Lance? Weak stance.

Those QB's have the potential to do it ALL, so yes. Mac doesn't. Average arm talent, below average athleticism. If McCorkle was black he'd be a 4th round pick at best.

Ridiculous comment. You think because hes white he went from a 4th round prospect to a top 10 maybe top 5 pick?

i really am questioning your QB evaluation skills now

As a general comment I do not see how bringing race into an already emotional argument can achieve anything of value.

I don't see how you're missing the role that race is playing in the evaluation process of these QB's and what's being said about them.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Lawrence has some question marks too. If Fields was also 6'6, and let's face it, the black QB has always come with more scrutiny as well, Fields would be #1.

All 4 of these QBs are extremely talented and athletic, all of them could go on to have great careers. The 4th QB taken can be just as good if not better than the 1st QB taken.

Of course Lawrence has some question marks also. Who doesn't coming out of college? The point I was making is that you don't give up three 1's unless you're moving up to number one.

Sure, the potential is there for someone like Lance but you don't give up that kind of draft capital for a QB that needs to sit 2-3 years. IMO, it comes down to Fields or Jones. Does Shanny want to deviate from his typical choice at QB or does he stick to his guns? That is the real question that everyone should be asking.

I spent last night watching all of Mac's throws from 8 games. You can watch here.

There's a lot to like...

His footwork in the pocket is elite. Hard to believe he's played one season.

He's got some moxie and throws it quickly and decisively.

He recognizes coverages and makes great decisions. For example, if you watch all 8 of those videos, you will see with consistency, that as soon as a defender turns his back he attacks and throws to that receiver. It's such heady play. He knows he's either getting the big pass play or a pass interference call, and he's all over it.

One other thing I notice he does at an elite level is he consistently puts the ball in the right spot for the receiver to keep running and pick up the most yards. Rollouts, RPO's, slants, and crosses, he throws it so well and the recievers are able to get the most out of the play because of it. One of my biggest pet peeves is watching a QB throw behind his guy, on a rollout that would have been a 20 - 30 gain. It seems like such a simple play, but I'll be honest there are not many QB's in the NFL that do this consistently. He would work wonders with receivers like Aiyuk, Deebo, and Kittle. Oh, man...

I have heard a lot about his noodle arm too, but to be honest, he throws some well-timed deep balls. Watching those videos, there were times he came up short, but there were also times when he dropped it in a bucket and hit the receiver in the hands and they dropped it too.

I don't want to make predictions, because who knows how anyone will turn out when they hit the NFL. But, I'm just not sure how you can watch those videos and not see future pro-bowls in this kid's future. Good lord, that's some damn impressive QB play.

It amazes me that with the percentage of busts there are in the draft that some people are so convinced with their own draft analysis that a guy will be a a bust or elite. Please f**king stop it. Nobody knows with absolute certainty how anyone will turn out. It's fine having a preference, just don't act like you know for certain that you're 100% right. That's f**king lame.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

I agree I don't know these guys. Neither do you. At least I don't pretend I do.

Just because you don't watch, read, evaluate these guys doesn't mean other people in here don't...that doesn't give you carte blanche to call people stupid and laugh at them.

you want to take the wait and see approach and pretend he's got some untapped potential...have at it. Doesn't mean other people (a lot of people) can't have their opinion on him either.

Show me where I said anyone is stupid. Do you have conversations with your self and think it's other people?

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SisterFister:
I've read a lot of this thread but may have missed this thought if someone already brought it up. I'm technologically impaired or else I would put up multiple clips. Maybe someone can help me because I think it's valid and most of you know this play.

One of the many reasons why I don't think the pick is Jones is Kyle's play calling on 3rd/4th and short.

How many times over the last 3 years with either Jimmy, CJ, or Mullens did we see Kyle run his favorite shotgun run up the middle on short yardage situations?

You all know the play I'm talking about. Short yardage. Packed LOS. Shotgun. No fullback. Hand off. Right up the middle.

How many times did we complain about this call in the Gameday thread?

With Jones, Jimmy, and Rosen this play is completely worthless. There is absolutely no threat for the 49ers to anything other than run the ball up the gut.

Just an observation. Fields and Lance create more options and offer less predictability.

This is so obvious that it's become painful to have to continue to remind the Shanahan apologists.

It's a bad play call for sure, but he clearly likes to call it in these situations. With Lance and Fields the defense has to account for all the gaps especially the outside.

Stick Mac Jones in there and you can almost bet your life there's only one direction this play is going.

Its only one play, but it's a BIG play. You have to convert 3rd/4th and short. It's a must.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

It amazes me that with the percentage of busts there are in the draft that some people are so convinced with their own draft analysis that a guy will be a a bust or elite. Please f**king stop it. Nobody knows with absolute certainty how anyone will turn out. It's fine having a preference, just don't act like you know for certain that you're 100% right. That's f**king lame.

Originally posted by okdkid:
Once again - none of us know anything as a fact. Not fans. Not the professional evaluators. We have no idea how these guys will pan out or how "maxed out" they are. Literally everybody is guessing.

This

It's 100% that nobody knows for sure who we take. I'll include Kyle and John in that statement since their choice could change if the Jets surprise everyone. I've never seen and heard so much talk about the 3rd overall pick in the draft. It's usually the 1st pick that gets all the coverage but that's been an obvious choice for a year.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
It amazes me that with the percentage of busts there are in the draft that some people are so convinced with their own draft analysis that a guy will be a a bust or elite. Please f**king stop it. Nobody knows with absolute certainty how anyone will turn out. It's fine having a preference, just don't act like you know for certain that you're 100% right. That's f**king lame.

Nobody is predicting how this will turn out. We're simply saying we didn't need to give up all these picks for a limited QB. We already have one and they're readily available throughout the draft.