Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Zealot:
Assuming for a minute Kyle wants Mac, are you prepared to entertain the possibility that Kyle sees potential and talent in Mac that you're missing or at least don't weight as heavily as he would?

Also, what if Mac wins games with Kyle like Jimmy, as you say, but doesn't lose the games that Jimmy lost because he's a better and faster processor and doesn't throw as many bad balls or flat out missing plays like Jimmy has? Wouldn't that be just as good as being able to make plays with your legs if the end result is the same, more wins at the end of the day?

I'll root for whomever to be good, just like I rooted for these all-star QBs...jeff kemp, Bono, Grbac, Dorsey, dilfer, Troy Smith, alex Smith, Garcia, JTO, Rattay, f**king Shaun Hill, Kap, Gabbert, Beathard, Hoyer, Mullens, Jimmy etc...

What you're saying Mac "might" be able to do with Kyle is fine...my issue is why can't Lance/Fields do that? All these QBs can play inside the pocket and process the field. The others offer MORE.

the whole deep ball debate is funny too...Mac can't make these amazing deep balls off structure or off platform. He needs his mechanics and has to step into his throws to get it downfield. His arm talent doesn't allow for anything but that...so when the OL doesn't PP...again, how is he gonna make all these high end throws? Kyle isn't changing the way he builds his OL.

Still operating under the assumption that Mac is the pick, maybe Kyle doesn't believe that Fields or Lance can do what Mac can in his system? Maybe he thinks Mac is just that much better a processor and sees the field faster and better than the others? Why that may be would be a question for Kyle to answer, because I have no idea what he sees or how he weights a prospects qualities when he does his QB evaluations.

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
If Mac is drafted and doesn't win the division in his first year playing, then Kyle and Lynch should be fired.

No honeymoon when you go against what the fans want and don't get immediate success. The half filled stadium will be full of boo birds. Bad look.

Lol, it doesn't work like that. He could care less what the fans want. You think if he chooses the QB the fans want and he turns out to be a bust. He'll say it wasn't my fault, it's the fans fault to Jed. Ok boomer

These posters can't seem to wrap their minds around that concept. I think it's because they're so sure of their take that Fields will be the next deshaun Watson while Mac can't possibly be any better than Andy Dalton. It's so laughable that no one seems to understand that in twelve months this draft and these prospects will be looked at entirely differently. So much more important to have gotten it right in hindsight then to get approval on draft day.

Right. But given recent history, much should be expected from Jones. I've read the comps to Burrow, Joe was on pace for 4300 and 21 with an inferior roster. Herbert, who was picked 6th with zero draft capital given up, also has an inferior roster went for 4300 and 31tds. Neither of these teams have Kyle scheming plays. Mac is the best processor ever from what I read and the most NFL ready, so Jimmy should be traded before season starts, no question about it.. Given all this I'll except Mac's season floor at 4300 and 28tds. Completely reasonable.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by birdie2bogey:
Assuming Kyle and John know Lawrence and Wilso are picks 1 and 2.

I read this process like this. Johnson, Kyle, and Adam all vlues the top 5 qbs in this draft very highly. Before the trade they may have had at least three different preferences as to who they feel is the 3rd best in the draft. Knowing that in order to get one if the three required a trade up. If Kyle preferred Mac and John preferred Trey as an example, then their discussions were how far do they need to trade up for either. They made the trade with all being open minded to the process and John needed to accept that trading up that far for what may eventually be Mac is an acceptable outcome because they pay for the insurance to get "their guy." I quote that because in the end all need to come to an consensus or support the pick.

That also means that if Trey impresses Kyle during the process then they moved up far enough to get their guy.

Either way, they paid to ensure they pick the best they evaluated. I had a hard time coming to terms with the trade to 3 I'd it is Mac because they didn't need to move that fat. Before the Panthers got Darnold, I assumed that John needed to move past 8 to get Mac. I started to get the feeling that Mac wasn't going to make it to 12 and I really wanted Mac at 12. Just had a hard time wrapping my head around the cost.

Now I have accepted it and can be excited again about Mac. I remember Bill Polian talking about the process to draft Peyton over Ryan Leaf. Not the same situation I know, but many in their organization loved the physical gifts of Leaf, but he couldn't pass up Peytons superior football intelligence. No one seems to be as immature as Leaf but if Mac has the same intellectual acumen as Peyton (similar or greater depending on who is evaluating) then I can get excited about having our QB be an extension of Kyle's genius mind. The closest Kyle had to perfect was Matt Ryan. What if this kid has the ability to perfectly execute Kyle's offense?

Ryan and Manning had much stronger arms coming out of college which made them more complete prospects. Also, Ryan Leaf was a knucklehead while Fields and Lance are extremely intelligent. Not a great comparison, but I understand what you're saying. Mac, in Kyle's eyes, must have some mental wizardry that Kyle covets above all other traits. And if he's right, maybe he can cover his physical disadvantages. But I just don't think we needed to pay such a steep price for such a long-shot at greatness when the other guys seem like safer bets to achieve greatness with the right coaching.

IT wont matter how high Mac's football IQ if Shanny continue to make them KNUCKLEHEAD calls when it counts.

Yep. Also having a statue who can't improvise when said knucklehead call backfires doesn't help

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Zealot:
Assuming for a minute Kyle wants Mac, are you prepared to entertain the possibility that Kyle sees potential and talent in Mac that you're missing or at least don't weight as heavily as he would?

Also, what if Mac wins games with Kyle like Jimmy, as you say, but doesn't lose the games that Jimmy lost because he's a better and faster processor and doesn't throw as many bad balls or flat out missing plays like Jimmy has? Wouldn't that be just as good as being able to make plays with your legs if the end result is the same, more wins at the end of the day?

I'll root for whomever to be good, just like rooted for these all-star QBs...jeff kemp, Bono, Grbac, Dorsey, dilfer, Troy Smith, alex Smith, Garcia, JTO, Rattay, f**king Shaun Hill, Kap, Gabbert, Beathard, Hoyer, Mullens, Jimmy etc...

What you're saying Mac "might" be able to do with Kyle is fine...my issue is why can't Lance/Fields do that? All these QBs can play inside the pocket and process the field. The others offer MORE.

the whole deep ball debate is funny too...Mac can't make these amazing deep balls off structure or off platform. He needs his mechanics and has to step into his throws to get it downfield. His arm talent doesn't allow for anything but that...so when the OL doesn't PP...again how is he gonna make all these high end throws? Kyle isn't changing the way he builds his OL.

We really have had a parade of garbage QBs... I thought for a few games (specifically the first game after the SB loss to the Ravens where we beat GB that Kap was going to be the real deal) and then again during the JAX & TEN games in 2017 where Jimmy was planing like Cool Joe. But other than that, we're usually on the losing end of the "who has a better QB" discussion.

... and then we choose Mac Jones

Right? I'm not saying Mac is those guys either but we haven't had a dynamic QB since Young...Kap was more athlete than QB which Fields and Lance are not. They can play QB inside the pocket just as well.

I just want to see what Kyle could do with an elite talent at QB, not sure why a couple people in here are so dead set against that?

Originally posted by birdie2bogey:
Assuming Kyle and John know Lawrence and Wilso are picks 1 and 2.

I read this process like this. Johnson, Kyle, and Adam all vlues the top 5 qbs in this draft very highly. Before the trade they may have had at least three different preferences as to who they feel is the 3rd best in the draft. Knowing that in order to get one if the three required a trade up. If Kyle preferred Mac and John preferred Trey as an example, then their discussions were how far do they need to trade up for either. They made the trade with all being open minded to the process and John needed to accept that trading up that far for what may eventually be Mac is an acceptable outcome because they pay for the insurance to get "their guy." I quote that because in the end all need to come to an consensus or support the pick.

That also means that if Trey impresses Kyle during the process then they moved up far enough to get their guy.

Either way, they paid to ensure they pick the best they evaluated. I had a hard time coming to terms with the trade to 3 I'd it is Mac because they didn't need to move that fat. Before the Panthers got Darnold, I assumed that John needed to move past 8 to get Mac. I started to get the feeling that Mac wasn't going to make it to 12 and I really wanted Mac at 12. Just had a hard time wrapping my head around the cost.

Now I have accepted it and can be excited again about Mac. I remember Bill Polian talking about the process to draft Peyton over Ryan Leaf. Not the same situation I know, but many in their organization loved the physical gifts of Leaf, but he couldn't pass up Peytons superior football intelligence. No one seems to be as immature as Leaf but if Mac has the same intellectual acumen as Peyton (similar or greater depending on who is evaluating) then I can get excited about having our QB be an extension of Kyle's genius mind. The closest Kyle had to perfect was Matt Ryan. What if this kid has the ability to perfectly execute Kyle's offense?

Agree, ill just add some other factors. Covid 19 and the absence of private workouts and no NFL combine. These factors forced ShanaLynch to pay a premium draft price to *scout* the three QBs they had their eye on by buying a month. If any of the three had such astounding talent that they were the one, maybe they don't trade up and/or pay the premium to buy time to scout them, and could have gone to #6, #8 or lower. But even today, in my eyes they are still pretty much even.

Finally if its the case we just get a little bit better version of Jimmy G. For this year and possibly next, we'll have tremendous QB depth with both Jimmy and Mac on the roster. Secondly Mac is a lot younger than Jimmy and ShanaLynch can say that they have their franchise QB for the next 10 years, *if* Mac isn't a bust. Those two lost first round picks now (hopefully) be counted as basically 2nd round picks, and maybe you get one back by trading Jimmy at the end of this year or opt to keep him for two years to have great QB depth for a possible 2peat if they get that far this year.

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
Starting petitions and threatening to destroy your own property because a football team drafts a kid who's barely old enough to drink....lol grow up

this is behavior I'd expect out of the that meme Eagles fan who got exposed for being a pedo

I didn't start a petition or say I would break my s**t lol?

old enough to drink lol...yeah I wish I was that young.

calling people bandwagon fans because they are against a pick and don't support every single move is childish and stupid all the same.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that top 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
If Mac is drafted and doesn't win the division in his first year playing, then Kyle and Lynch should be fired.

No honeymoon when you go against what the fans want and don't get immediate success. The half filled stadium will be full of boo birds. Bad look.

Lol, it doesn't work like that. He could care less what the fans want. You think if he chooses the QB the fans want and he turns out to be a bust. He'll say it wasn't my fault, it's the fans fault to Jed. Ok boomer

These posters can't seem to wrap their minds around that concept. I think it's because they're so sure of their take that Fields will be the next deshaun Watson while Mac can't possibly be any better than Andy Dalton. It's so laughable that no one seems to understand that in twelve months this draft and these prospects will be looked at entirely differently. So much more important to have gotten it right in hindsight then to get approval on draft day.

Right. But given recent history, much should be expected from Jones. I've read the comps to Burrow, Joe was on pace for 4300 and 21 with an inferior roster. Herbert, who was picked 6th with zero draft capital given up, also has an inferior roster went for 4300 and 31tds. Neither of these teams have Kyle scheming plays. Mac is the best processor ever from what I read and the most NFL ready, so Jimmy should be traded before season starts, no question about it.. Given all this I'll except Mac's season floor at 4300 and 28tds. Completely reasonable.

Yeah I definitely agree that expectations will be high. I'm not so worried about year one as I am year two and beyond. But it's fair to hope the guy comes out and plays well right away as a lot of other recent rookies have.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right? I'm not saying Mac is those guys either but we haven't had a dynamic QB since Young...Kap was more athlete than QB which Fields and Lance are not. They can play QB inside the pocket just as well.

I just want to see what Kyle could do with an elite talent at QB, not sure why a couple people in here are so dead set against that?

This draft will be an interesting commentary on the 2017 draft too. We all agree that Solomon Thomas was the wrong pick now, but they obviously felt that Trubisky, Watson, and Mahomes weren't worthy of that pick. I was on the Watson or Trubisky train, but I think it's now known that Kyle was essentially waiting for Cousins (until Jimmy trade happened).

No fast forward 4 years. We have Jones, Fields, and Lance. There's no "Solomon Thomas" in this draft. Trubisky could be Jones or he could be Lance. Fields is Watson in this comparison. And Lance could be Mahomes (if he sat behind Jimmy all season).

I understand that I'm putting too much stock in this comparison, but it is illustrative, considering it's Lynch and Shanahan's worst draft (outside of Kittle).

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by birdie2bogey:
Assuming Kyle and John know Lawrence and Wilso are picks 1 and 2.

I read this process like this. Johnson, Kyle, and Adam all vlues the top 5 qbs in this draft very highly. Before the trade they may have had at least three different preferences as to who they feel is the 3rd best in the draft. Knowing that in order to get one if the three required a trade up. If Kyle preferred Mac and John preferred Trey as an example, then their discussions were how far do they need to trade up for either. They made the trade with all being open minded to the process and John needed to accept that trading up that far for what may eventually be Mac is an acceptable outcome because they pay for the insurance to get "their guy." I quote that because in the end all need to come to an consensus or support the pick.

That also means that if Trey impresses Kyle during the process then they moved up far enough to get their guy.

Either way, they paid to ensure they pick the best they evaluated. I had a hard time coming to terms with the trade to 3 I'd it is Mac because they didn't need to move that fat. Before the Panthers got Darnold, I assumed that John needed to move past 8 to get Mac. I started to get the feeling that Mac wasn't going to make it to 12 and I really wanted Mac at 12. Just had a hard time wrapping my head around the cost.

Now I have accepted it and can be excited again about Mac. I remember Bill Polian talking about the process to draft Peyton over Ryan Leaf. Not the same situation I know, but many in their organization loved the physical gifts of Leaf, but he couldn't pass up Peytons superior football intelligence. No one seems to be as immature as Leaf but if Mac has the same intellectual acumen as Peyton (similar or greater depending on who is evaluating) then I can get excited about having our QB be an extension of Kyle's genius mind. The closest Kyle had to perfect was Matt Ryan. What if this kid has the ability to perfectly execute Kyle's offense?

Ryan and Manning had much stronger arms coming out of college which made them more complete prospects. Also, Ryan Leaf was a knucklehead while Fields and Lance are extremely intelligent. Not a great comparison, but I understand what you're saying. Mac, in Kyle's eyes, must have some mental wizardry that Kyle covets above all other traits. And if he's right, maybe he can cover his physical disadvantages. But I just don't think we needed to pay such a steep price for such a long-shot at greatness when the other guys seem like safer bets to achieve greatness with the right coaching.

IT wont matter how high Mac's football IQ if Shanny continue to make them KNUCKLEHEAD calls when it counts.

Damn bro be careful or they will go nuts with you speaking about Kyle like that

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

They was on a hot seat the second they invested 3 firsts. No matter who they pick.

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

They was on a hot seat the second they invested 3 firsts. No matter who they pick.

I disagree with this. If they choose Lance, the common perception is that he'll need a year to sit and since Mahomes was so successful doing that, it buys them an extra year.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

For the millionth time dude just because you think Mac is Jimmy at best doesn't make it so. I view him as Drew Brees. Does that mean I'm right and you're wrong?

And that didn't even include the biggest factor here... Jimmy is constantly injured and makes $25m a year. This is a salary cap league meaning you can have injury prone Jimmy and lose bosa or Warner or deebo to free agency and use first round picks to try to replace them. Or you can have Mac (aka non injury prone Jimmy) making $6m a year and resign your studs.

Oh yeah, signing extension means a lot. It means you have to think your decision to extend these guys was so wrong that you'll eat those millions of dollars just to get rid of them. That's guaranteed money.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

They was on a hot seat the second they invested 3 firsts. No matter who they pick.

I disagree with this. If they choose Lance, the common perception is that he'll need a year to sit and since Mahomes was so successful doing that, it buys them an extra year.

Yes if they have an agreed to a plan the hot seat can be next year. But it's already hot to be correct. Or else.