Mac Jones-QB-49ers

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
This draft will be an interesting commentary on the 2017 draft too. We all agree that Solomon Thomas was the wrong pick now, but they obviously felt that Trubisky, Watson, and Mahomes weren't worthy of that pick. I was on the Watson or Trubisky train, but I think it's now known that Kyle was essentially waiting for Cousins (until Jimmy trade happened).

No fast forward 4 years. We have Jones, Fields, and Lance. There's no "Solomon Thomas" in this draft. Trubisky could be Jones or he could be Lance. Fields is Watson in this comparison. And Lance could be Mahomes (if he sat behind Jimmy all season).

I understand that I'm putting too much stock in this comparison, but it is illustrative, considering it's Lynch and Shanahan's worst draft (outside of Kittle).

I look at it like the 2019 draft with Tua vs Herbert debate.

tua was regarded as stupid accurate, football IQ through the roof, great mechanics, ran the same offense with elite talent all over the place. He even offered a little more than Mac athletically.

Herbert was a big strong armed QB, was smart but regarded as not the best processor, not as accurate blah blah blah.

now we get to the NFL and what do you know the most talent player plays better. All those open windows Tua had aren't there at the next level. You don't get to sit back in the pocket and use all those great mechanics on every down.

Is what it is, I'll root for whomever and hope they become the best form of what they can become. I will be objective and say 4 QBs have vastly higher ceiling and we should take advantage of that with this roster and coaching staff and expect them to get th most out of them.

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

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Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

They was on a hot seat the second they invested 3 firsts. No matter who they pick.

Agreed. I wouldn't want to be them trying to figure out which one to gamble on.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Damn bro be careful or they will go nuts with you speaking about Kyle like that

There's a big difference between evaluating talent and coaching games. I really like Kyle as a coach, but I'm not sold on him having final say with personnel. The best coaches are able to adapt to their players' strengths, and I think Kyle is fully capable albeit more willing to find system guys than mine raw talent at this point. Let's hope the team picks Lance/Fields and bucks that trend.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Mac will have to be Tom Brady for him to be worth 3 1st rd picks...

So what would Lance and Fields have to become to be worth it? Patrick Mahomes (the one who won a Superbowl)?

Or Deshawn Watson, or Josh Allen, or Russell Wilson, or Kyler Murray. There's a number of athletic QBs that can beat you from inside and outside the pocket and would flourish in a Shanahan system. Tom Brady is a unicorn and much harder to project his intangibles onto a young player. I'd say the likelihood of Mac becoming the next Brady is far less than Fields becoming the next Mahomes, or Lance becoming the next Allen.

So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

+ Show all quotes
They was on a hot seat the second they invested 3 firsts. No matter who they pick.

I disagree with this. If they choose Lance, the common perception is that he'll need a year to sit and since Mahomes was so successful doing that, it buys them an extra year.

Yes if they have an agreed to a plan the hot seat can be next year. But it's already hot to be correct. Or else.

Perception is an interesting thing. Shanahan has made it through 3 10-loss seasons without being on the hot seat because of extenuating circumstances. If the pick is Jones or Fields, the perception is they need to show up quickly. If it's Lance, the perception is he'll need at least a half season, but maybe a full season to get ready. That buys Shanahan time.

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Can someone explain what is considered athletic and what do we mean by it in football? Compare Mac and Mahomes 40 time, vertical jump, broad jump, etc. I don't see a big difference, looks like Mac has the edge. Serious question, I don't want a bias answer.

It's simply defined as "exciting." That's it.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

They was on a hot seat the second they invested 3 firsts. No matter who they pick.

+ Show all quotes
I disagree with this. If they choose Lance, the common perception is that he'll need a year to sit and since Mahomes was so successful doing that, it buys them an extra year.

Yes if they have an agreed to a plan the hot seat can be next year. But it's already hot to be correct. Or else.

Perception is an interesting thing. Shanahan has made it through 3 10-loss seasons without being on the hot seat because of extenuating circumstances. If the pick is Jones or Fields, the perception is they need to show up quickly. If it's Lance, the perception is he'll need at least a half season, but maybe a full season to get ready. That buys Shanahan time.

I prefer they all sit a season but you are 100% correct.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by est1985:
Any Mac fans in this thread that think he's the greatest processor to come in years should be advocating for him to go #1, right?

That one isn't happening. Fields can't even convince Urban Meyer to look his way.

But it is curious that if Jones was this brilliant QB prospect for Shanny's system how come NY isn't even talking to him? It's Saleh and Lafleur. They're literally trying to be SF East.

They've ONLY brought in our cast off RB. Hardly SF East.

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

+ Show all quotes
Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

You say that regardless (either to train Lance) or to bolster his trade value (Fields/Jones).

They was on a hot seat the second they invested 3 firsts. No matter who they pick.

The fact that Jimmy is still a 49er makes me very skeptical it's Jones. Imo

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Mac will have to be Tom Brady for him to be worth 3 1st rd picks...

+ Show all quotes
So what would Lance and Fields have to become to be worth it? Patrick Mahomes (the one who won a Superbowl)?

Or Deshawn Watson, or Josh Allen, or Russell Wilson, or Kyler Murray. There's a number of athletic QBs that can beat you from inside and outside the pocket and would flourish in a Shanahan system. Tom Brady is a unicorn and much harder to project his intangibles onto a young player. I'd say the likelihood of Mac becoming the next Brady is far less than Fields becoming the next Mahomes, or Lance becoming the next Allen.

So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I never said he has to be Brady. There's just so few examples of guys with Mac's traits becoming great QBs. Guys like Ryan and Manning had much better arms coming out of college. Maybe his arm talent improves when he puts more effort in his physique (why is this not a concern???). The other guys are already at an advantage by being far physically superior while comparable mentally to Mac.

Honest question, do you think Mac is a better prospect than Fields?

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Damn bro be careful or they will go nuts with you speaking about Kyle like that

There's a big difference between evaluating talent and coaching games. I really like Kyle as a coach, but I'm not sold on him having final say with personnel. The best coaches are able to adapt to their players' strengths, and I think Kyle is fully capable albeit more willing to find system guys than mine raw talent at this point. Let's hope the team picks Lance/Fields and bucks that trend.

Yup. I was on his ass after that Sb loss but rewatching showed he had guys wide open than JG simple missed.

That 100% doesn't translate to him picking talent tho and history proves that, but apparently we shouldn't question that.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by est1985:
Any Mac fans in this thread that think he's the greatest processor to come in years should be advocating for him to go #1, right?

That one isn't happening. Fields can't even convince Urban Meyer to look his way.

But it is curious that if Jones was this brilliant QB prospect for Shanny's system how come NY isn't even talking to him? It's Saleh and Lafleur. They're literally trying to be SF East.

They've ONLY brought in our cast off RB. Hardly SF East.

If I had a top 4 pick in this draft I wouldn't have anything to do with Mac either

Originally posted by NCommand:
So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I'll take Herbert. I'll take Josh Allen. Guys that have been in the league 3 yrs or less. I'm not trying to compare them to HOF QBs. I mean who in the league is there with Mac attributes? Maybe Matt Ryan? Realistically that's who you should be hoping for...and for 3 1sts, I'd say that would be a reach for Ryan (who was also like 3 inches and 10-15lbs bigger coming out of college).

NC you're the PP guy, you defended Jimmy and saying he couldn't throw it deep because of pass-pro, what's gonna be different with Mac? He has to use his mechanics and set his feet to throw down field accurately. He doesn't have the arm talent to make off platform throws. Even Cosell said this. You think Kyle is gonna magically turn our OL into what Brees has had in NO? If his arrogant enough to stick with a system QB you can't assume his OL philosophies will change either...you've been saying that for over a yr.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
This draft will be an interesting commentary on the 2017 draft too. We all agree that Solomon Thomas was the wrong pick now, but they obviously felt that Trubisky, Watson, and Mahomes weren't worthy of that pick. I was on the Watson or Trubisky train, but I think it's now known that Kyle was essentially waiting for Cousins (until Jimmy trade happened).

No fast forward 4 years. We have Jones, Fields, and Lance. There's no "Solomon Thomas" in this draft. Trubisky could be Jones or he could be Lance. Fields is Watson in this comparison. And Lance could be Mahomes (if he sat behind Jimmy all season).

I understand that I'm putting too much stock in this comparison, but it is illustrative, considering it's Lynch and Shanahan's worst draft (outside of Kittle).

I look at it like the 2019 draft with Tua vs Herbert debate.

tua was regarded as stupid accurate, football IQ through the roof, great mechanics, ran the same offense with elite talent all over the place. He even offered a little more than Mac athletically.

Herbert was a big strong armed QB, was smart but regarded as not the best processor, not as accurate blah blah blah.

now we get to the NFL and what do you know the most talent player plays better. All those open windows Tua had aren't there at the next level. You don't get to sit back in the pocket and use all those great mechanics on every down.

Is what it is, I'll root for whomever and hope they become the best form of what they can become. I will be objective and say 4 QBs have vastly higher ceiling and we should take advantage of that with this roster and coaching staff and expect them to get th most out of them.

Burrow, Tua, and Herbert

Jones, Fields, Lance

Jones actually seems to compare to Burrow pretty well, but Burrow had a swagger that I haven't seen from Jones. Jones also relates obviously to Tua.

Lance and Fields relate loosely to Herbert, but I think that's harder to connect the dots.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Mac will have to be Tom Brady for him to be worth 3 1st rd picks...

So what would Lance and Fields have to become to be worth it? Patrick Mahomes (the one who won a Superbowl)?

+ Show all quotes
Or Deshawn Watson, or Josh Allen, or Russell Wilson, or Kyler Murray. There's a number of athletic QBs that can beat you from inside and outside the pocket and would flourish in a Shanahan system. Tom Brady is a unicorn and much harder to project his intangibles onto a young player. I'd say the likelihood of Mac becoming the next Brady is far less than Fields becoming the next Mahomes, or Lance becoming the next Allen.

So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I never said he has to be Brady. There's just so few examples of guys with Mac's traits becoming great QBs. Guys like Ryan and Manning had much better arms coming out of college. Maybe his arm talent improves when he puts more effort in his physique (why is this not a concern???). The other guys are already at an advantage by being far physically superior while comparable mentally to Mac.

Honest question, do you think Mac is a better prospect than Fields?

Your arguing neighbors did. Fair enough.

How about you? What would Fields/Lance have to do to also be considered "worth it?"

There's this belief one has zero elite traits and the other two have elite traits so this should be a really simple answer coming.