Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

I log in here and literally find 15 new pages all spewing hate....bravo guys

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I'll take Herbert. I'll take Josh Allen. Guys that have been in the league 3 yrs or less. I'm not trying to compare them to HOF QBs. I mean who in the league is there with Mac attributes? Maybe Matt Ryan? Realistically that's who you should be hoping for...and for 3 1sts, I'd say that would be a reach for Ryan (who was also like 3 inches and 10-15lbs bigger coming out of college).

NC you're the PP guy, you defended Jimmy and saying he couldn't throw it deep because of pass-pro, what's gonna be different with Mac? He has to use his mechanics and set his feet to throw down field accurately. He doesn't have the arm talent to make off platform throws. Even Cosell said this. You think Kyle is gonna magically turn our OL into what Brees has had in NO? If his arrogant enough to stick with a system QB you can't assume his OL philosophies will change either...you've been saying that for over a yr.

So a non athletic QB has to become the greatest QB ever, but Fields/Lance simply need to become two young players who've done nothing thus far in the NFL?

You do realize how absolutely nuts that is, right?

Soooooo many QB's flame out after a year or two too.

I think your bias is getting the best/worst of you. You're far better than that. I'll leave it alone.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I'll take Herbert. I'll take Josh Allen. Guys that have been in the league 3 yrs or less. I'm not trying to compare them to HOF QBs. I mean who in the league is there with Mac attributes? Maybe Matt Ryan? Realistically that's who you should be hoping for...and for 3 1sts, I'd say that would be a reach for Ryan (who was also like 3 inches and 10-15lbs bigger coming out of college).

NC you're the PP guy, you defended Jimmy and saying he couldn't throw it deep because of pass-pro, what's gonna be different with Mac? He has to use his mechanics and set his feet to throw down field accurately. He doesn't have the arm talent to make off platform throws. Even Cosell said this. You think Kyle is gonna magically turn our OL into what Brees has had in NO? If his arrogant enough to stick with a system QB you can't assume his OL philosophies will change either...you've been saying that for over a yr.

So a non athletic QB has to become the greatest QB ever, but Fields/Lance simply need to become two young players who've done nothing thus far in the NFL?

You do realize how absolutely nuts that is, right?

Soooooo many QB's flame out after a year or two too.

I think your bias is getting the best/worst of you. You're far better than that. I'll leave it alone.

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I'll take Herbert. I'll take Josh Allen. Guys that have been in the league 3 yrs or less. I'm not trying to compare them to HOF QBs. I mean who in the league is there with Mac attributes? Maybe Matt Ryan? Realistically that's who you should be hoping for...and for 3 1sts, I'd say that would be a reach for Ryan (who was also like 3 inches and 10-15lbs bigger coming out of college).

NC you're the PP guy, you defended Jimmy and saying he couldn't throw it deep because of pass-pro, what's gonna be different with Mac? He has to use his mechanics and set his feet to throw down field accurately. He doesn't have the arm talent to make off platform throws. Even Cosell said this. You think Kyle is gonna magically turn our OL into what Brees has had in NO? If his arrogant enough to stick with a system QB you can't assume his OL philosophies will change either...you've been saying that for over a yr.

So a non athletic QB has to become the greatest QB ever, but Fields/Lance simply need to become two young players who've done nothing thus far in the NFL?

You do realize how absolutely nuts that is, right?

Soooooo many QB's flame out after a year or two too.

I think your bias is getting the best/worst of you. You're far better than that. I'll leave it alone.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I'll take Herbert. I'll take Josh Allen. Guys that have been in the league 3 yrs or less. I'm not trying to compare them to HOF QBs. I mean who in the league is there with Mac attributes? Maybe Matt Ryan? Realistically that's who you should be hoping for...and for 3 1sts, I'd say that would be a reach for Ryan (who was also like 3 inches and 10-15lbs bigger coming out of college).

NC you're the PP guy, you defended Jimmy and saying he couldn't throw it deep because of pass-pro, what's gonna be different with Mac? He has to use his mechanics and set his feet to throw down field accurately. He doesn't have the arm talent to make off platform throws. Even Cosell said this. You think Kyle is gonna magically turn our OL into what Brees has had in NO? If his arrogant enough to stick with a system QB you can't assume his OL philosophies will change either...you've been saying that for over a yr.

So a non athletic QB has to become the greatest QB ever, but Fields/Lance simply need to become two young players who've done nothing thus far in the NFL?

You do realize how absolutely nuts that is, right?

Soooooo many QB's flame out after a year or two too.

I think your bias is getting the best/worst of you. You're far better than that. I'll leave it alone.

It's like you're not even reading NY's posts.

Originally posted by Rathof44:
Wrong. Please explain in your infinite wisdom what should be expected. But don't aim too high, wouldn't want too high of expectations from the greatest processing, most NFL-ready QB in the draft. Aim low to protect McPorky from scrutiny. Lol.

OP says Mac Jones needs to match the all time rookie stat record set by Herbert or he's a fail but I guess the 6-9 record Herbert finished with was ok.

Originally posted by jcs:
I log in here and literally find 15 new pages all spewing hate....bravo guys

Your posts have a certain "own the libs" flavor to them. I definitely hope they don't pick Jones, but "spewing hate" is ridiculous. I just don't see the pick as good team building. Especially with special talents still available on the board and the bounty we surrendered to move to this spot.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Burrow, Tua, and Herbert

Jones, Fields, Lance

Jones actually seems to compare to Burrow pretty well, but Burrow had a swagger that I haven't seen from Jones. Jones also relates obviously to Tua.

Lance and Fields relate loosely to Herbert, but I think that's harder to connect the dots.

Burrow can make off platform throws. He can turn chicken s**t into chicken salad. He's got a better arm too. He also actually made tight window throws

Originally posted by roasthawg:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
If they do select Jones, are Lynch and Shanahan immediately on the hot seat? They did just sign extensions?

I agree that their leash is shorter with Jones than any of the other guys, specifically because of fan perception, but is it an immediate process? The second Rodger Goodell makes the call, they're on the hot seat?

Signing extension means absolutely nothing...kyle has another subpar yr then ya they should all be on the hot seat...3 10+ loss seasons in 4 yrs.

if the plan is to keep Jimmy why would you draft a kid that's Jimmy? Why would you not want that too 5 upside and give them a yr like KC did? I mean that's what Kyle said he wanted to do.

For the millionth time dude just because you think Mac is Jimmy at best doesn't make it so. I view him as Drew Brees. Does that mean I'm right and you're wrong?

And that didn't even include the biggest factor here... Jimmy is constantly injured and makes $25m a year. This is a salary cap league meaning you can have injury prone Jimmy and lose bosa or Warner or deebo to free agency and use first round picks to try to replace them. Or you can have Mac (aka non injury prone Jimmy) making $6m a year and resign your studs.

Oh yeah, signing extension means a lot. It means you have to think your decision to extend these guys was so wrong that you'll eat those millions of dollars just to get rid of them. That's guaranteed money.

Good points above.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Mac will have to be Tom Brady for him to be worth 3 1st rd picks...

So what would Lance and Fields have to become to be worth it? Patrick Mahomes (the one who won a Superbowl)?

Or Deshawn Watson, or Josh Allen, or Russell Wilson, or Kyler Murray. There's a number of athletic QBs that can beat you from inside and outside the pocket and would flourish in a Shanahan system. Tom Brady is a unicorn and much harder to project his intangibles onto a young player. I'd say the likelihood of Mac becoming the next Brady is far less than Fields becoming the next Mahomes, or Lance becoming the next Allen.

So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I never said he has to be Brady. There's just so few examples of guys with Mac's traits becoming great QBs. Guys like Ryan and Manning had much better arms coming out of college. Maybe his arm talent improves when he puts more effort in his physique (why is this not a concern???). The other guys are already at an advantage by being far physically superior while comparable mentally to Mac.

Honest question, do you think Mac is a better prospect than Fields?

Your arguing neighbors did. Fair enough.

How about you? What would Fields/Lance have to do to also be considered "worth it?"

There's this belief one has zero elite traits and the other two have elite traits so this should be a really simple answer coming.

To be worth the trade, I think Watson, Wilson, Kyler, Allen, Mahomes, or Herbert would be wonderful analogs to be a considered a success, especially with the creative mind of Shanahan. I think that's totally achievable with either of these two prospects.

For Mac, I think somewhere in a bit better than Cousins and up to the unicorn Brady to be considered a success. There's just not a lot of examples of current QBs that lack both agility and arm strength to create good comparisons. Maybe Matt Ryan, but again he's not a good comp because he has a bigger body to withstand the rigors of the game and a stronger arm. I totally think Mac can be good if he's as elite as they say processing the game. That's one of the most important traits there is in the QB position.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by jcs:
I log in here and literally find 15 new pages all spewing hate....bravo guys

Your posts have a certain "own the libs" flavor to them. I definitely hope they don't pick Jones, but "spewing hate" is ridiculous. I just don't see the pick as good team building. Especially with special talents still available on the board and the bounty we surrendered to move to this spot.

Who's making this political?

This thread right now is a bunch of smug 49er fans who can't handle Mac Jones as potentially being the pick and are in full webzone meltdown.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Burrow, Tua, and Herbert

Jones, Fields, Lance

Jones actually seems to compare to Burrow pretty well, but Burrow had a swagger that I haven't seen from Jones. Jones also relates obviously to Tua.

Lance and Fields relate loosely to Herbert, but I think that's harder to connect the dots.

Burrow can make off platform throws. He can turn chicken s**t into chicken salad. He's got a better arm too. He also actually made tight window throws

I agree that Burrow is a better prospect than Jones, but it's not a huge difference IMO.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I'll take Herbert. I'll take Josh Allen. Guys that have been in the league 3 yrs or less. I'm not trying to compare them to HOF QBs. I mean who in the league is there with Mac attributes? Maybe Matt Ryan? Realistically that's who you should be hoping for...and for 3 1sts, I'd say that would be a reach for Ryan (who was also like 3 inches and 10-15lbs bigger coming out of college).

NC you're the PP guy, you defended Jimmy and saying he couldn't throw it deep because of pass-pro, what's gonna be different with Mac? He has to use his mechanics and set his feet to throw down field accurately. He doesn't have the arm talent to make off platform throws. Even Cosell said this. You think Kyle is gonna magically turn our OL into what Brees has had in NO? If his arrogant enough to stick with a system QB you can't assume his OL philosophies will change either...you've been saying that for over a yr.

So a non athletic QB has to become the greatest QB ever, but Fields/Lance simply need to become two young players who've done nothing thus far in the NFL?

You do realize how absolutely nuts that is, right?

Soooooo many QB's flame out after a year or two too.

I think your bias is getting the best/worst of you. You're far better than that. I'll leave it alone.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Mac will have to be Tom Brady for him to be worth 3 1st rd picks...

So what would Lance and Fields have to become to be worth it? Patrick Mahomes (the one who won a Superbowl)?

Or Deshawn Watson, or Josh Allen, or Russell Wilson, or Kyler Murray. There's a number of athletic QBs that can beat you from inside and outside the pocket and would flourish in a Shanahan system. Tom Brady is a unicorn and much harder to project his intangibles onto a young player. I'd say the likelihood of Mac becoming the next Brady is far less than Fields becoming the next Mahomes, or Lance becoming the next Allen.

So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I never said he has to be Brady. There's just so few examples of guys with Mac's traits becoming great QBs. Guys like Ryan and Manning had much better arms coming out of college. Maybe his arm talent improves when he puts more effort in his physique (why is this not a concern???). The other guys are already at an advantage by being far physically superior while comparable mentally to Mac.

Honest question, do you think Mac is a better prospect than Fields?

What are you talking about? Most of the greatest qbs of the past two decades share similarities to Mac. Brady, brees, and Manning all were ultra processors without huge arms or ability to run. I mean these guys collectively dominated the league. I get it that right now you have Rodgers and mahomes at the top of the list but the only guy in this draft that is fairly similar to them in Wilson. Fields/Lance would fall somewhere in between Newton and Watson imo... Unless you feel differently. But I mean there's just no way you can sit here and say "there's so few examples of guys with his traits becoming great" when I can easily list more great qbs with his traits than any of ultra athletic stuff I think you're comparing him to. There's so few great qbs period. But the great ones often have super quick minds before anything else.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So one Superbowl riding a historic defense and absolutely nothing else?

Let's play an even playing field. If Mac has to be Tom Brady to be considered "worth it" what does Lance and Fields have to be?

I'll take Herbert. I'll take Josh Allen. Guys that have been in the league 3 yrs or less. I'm not trying to compare them to HOF QBs. I mean who in the league is there with Mac attributes? Maybe Matt Ryan? Realistically that's who you should be hoping for...and for 3 1sts, I'd say that would be a reach for Ryan (who was also like 3 inches and 10-15lbs bigger coming out of college).

NC you're the PP guy, you defended Jimmy and saying he couldn't throw it deep because of pass-pro, what's gonna be different with Mac? He has to use his mechanics and set his feet to throw down field accurately. He doesn't have the arm talent to make off platform throws. Even Cosell said this. You think Kyle is gonna magically turn our OL into what Brees has had in NO? If his arrogant enough to stick with a system QB you can't assume his OL philosophies will change either...you've been saying that for over a yr.

So a non athletic QB has to become the greatest QB ever, but Fields/Lance simply need to become two young players who've done nothing thus far in the NFL?

You do realize how absolutely nuts that is, right?

Soooooo many QB's flame out after a year or two too.

I think your bias is getting the best/worst of you. You're far better than that. I'll leave it alone.

Like I said who else is there in the league? You didn't answer my question. Matt ryan? That's what you're hoping for...you didn't answer my question about PP??? You complained about it for 2 yrs...you think kyle changes his ways? I don't...Jones NEEDS to have structure. He needs to use all his mechanics and to be able to set his feet to make accurate throws and passes downfield...how in gods green earth is he gonna have that here? What he has in Bama is NOT what he's gonna have here and you KNOW this.

the league is changing. The kids that are learning to play QB ARE young athletic talents, they're learning to play the position from the head up as well...if you don't believe me go do some research on the 5 star recruits coming up. Go listen to Dilfer who runs elite 11.