Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
"It took Matt Ryan a year to learn Kyle Shanahan's offense. Give him time!"

This guy is supposedly the smartest man to ever go to the NFL and supposedly has a perfect photographic memory and has supposedly been running a version of Shanahan's offense for his whole college career. Based on what people have said about him, he should have the offense mastered by the time he's finished hugging Goodell on the podium.

I mean no reason Fields or Lance couldn't start day 1 either. That elite athleticism and mobility should allow them to run in a circle for 6 minutes and 12 seconds to confuse the D and tire them out, then they can just chuck the ball 60 yards down field to an wide open receiver.

Why sit an elite level athlete with God like mobility, a cannon arm and elite accuracy after we traded 3 first round picks to get him. Especially Fields, I mean guy is even smarter than Mac given that aptitude test score, no reason for him not to know our play book before we even give it to him.

That how you Anti Mac guys sound FYI.

I mean, if we do draft Fields, I think we likely do start him week 1. Possibly Lance as well. Sitting them and letting them develop is a nice thought, but Alex Smith isn't walking through that door anytime soon and Jimmy is not the one you want trying to fill that role.

It's not even being anti-Mac to suggest that he shouldn't need time to learn the offense. We've heard multiple times now how incredibly smart he is and how he's basically already running the Shanahan offense. If anything, he might be able to give Kyle some pointers on what he could do to improve the offense.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
"It took Matt Ryan a year to learn Kyle Shanahan's offense. Give him time!"

This guy is supposedly the smartest man to ever go to the NFL and supposedly has a perfect photographic memory and has supposedly been running a version of Shanahan's offense for his whole college career. Based on what people have said about him, he should have the offense mastered by the time he's finished hugging Goodell on the podium.

I mean no reason Fields or Lance couldn't start day 1 either. That elite athleticism and mobility should allow them to run in a circle for 6 minutes and 12 seconds to confuse the D and tire them out, then they can just chuck the ball 60 yards down field to an wide open receiver.

Why sit an elite level athlete with God like mobility, a cannon arm and elite accuracy after we traded 3 first round picks to get him. Especially Fields, I mean guy is even smarter than Mac given that aptitude test score, no reason for him not to know our play book before we even give it to him.

That how you Anti Mac guys sound FYI.

I mean, if we do draft Fields, I think we likely do start him week 1. Possibly Lance as well. Sitting them and letting them develop is a nice thought, but Alex Smith isn't walking through that door anytime soon and Jimmy is not the one you want trying to fill that role.

It's not even being anti-Mac to suggest that he shouldn't need time to learn the offense. We've heard multiple times now how incredibly smart he is and how he's basically already running the Shanahan offense. If anything, he might be able to give Kyle some pointers on what he could do to improve the offense.

A guy who hasn't played in a year and when he did play it was against some DB named frank currently employed at Safeways produce section.

This is the kind of post that really irritated me. If Mac is drafted the anti mac crowd is going to demand that he wins three back to back superbowls immediately, or he's a bust. It doesn't work that way.

You give lance and fields and jones enough time to figure out shanahans offense and nfl game speed. Rodgers had 3 years. Mahommes had a year. Stop trying to setup jones for failure. And don't even think about putting lance in right away. You'll ruin him.

Originally posted by swayze:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I think Mac is going to tear it up. I wouldn't mind starting him right away. Trade Jimmy to NE for a 2nd and build around the rook.

I expect there to be a learning curve, and for the record I am (very) bearish on Mac Jones. But if we do draft him, I agree, there's no reason to have him sit. Flip Jimmy for what you can, use the cap room maybe on the o-line, and let's see what we've got

Oh, we're definitely trading Jimmy before the season if we draft Jones. It would be locker room cancer to keep both of them. No way that happens. You might (emphasis on might) be able to get away with that with Lance or maybe even Fields. Absolutely no way they try it with Jones and Jimmy. They'd have to be insane.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:
Saban saw him every day in practice and didn't see that either, unless he thought Tua was better that Brady/Manning/Brees

Or he just thought Tua's ability to extend plays gave him an advantage early on. Mac can be a fast processor but as a freshman when Tua won the national title how ahead can you be?

If someone was processing like Brady/Manning/Brees, I don't care how much you can extend play, you should not be able to beat them out, and if you did, you wouldn't be able to hold them off for long. If Brady/Manning/Brees was torching the best defense in the country in practice everyday, you would find a way to get him on the field.

As a pretty strong college fan, I will tell you, You cant keep getting 5 star recruits if you throw them under the bus, every other team will sure as hell bad mouth you during recruiting season. Let alone if you are ACTIVELY recruiting said recruits 4 star brother.

No one is shocked that number 1 draft Pick/5 star recruit Tua Tungaviloa was not benched by Saban. Yes Mac Jones set several all time Alabama record, Yes Mac Jones set several all time NCAA records, Yes Mac Jones is by FAR the better college QB(he did more with less), and Yes Saban knew what he had in Jones and left his next 5 Star recruit QB (bryce young) on the bench this season.

Tua would have to had made major mistakes to get sent to the bench. No team wants a QB controversy, especially in a sport so heavily tied to recruiting. Player can go where ever they want in college, you don't get to draft them and own their rights for years as you figure out your depth chart.When players feel they are going to sit on the bench for a year anyway...they transfer. Not even the mighty Saban is immune to the powers that be when it comes to recruiting.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I think Mac is going to tear it up. I wouldn't mind starting him right away. Trade Jimmy to NE for a 2nd and build around the rook.

Why would NE give up anything at this point? Mac isn't gonna play any better than Jimmy imo

NE is desperate for a QB - I think they'd take Jimmy for a 2nd/3rd. As far as Mac starting - I think it'd be no different than the Jags starting Lawrence or the Jets starting Wilson, except we have a way better team.

Originally posted by swayze:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I think Mac is going to tear it up. I wouldn't mind starting him right away. Trade Jimmy to NE for a 2nd and build around the rook.

I expect there to be a learning curve, and for the record I am (very) bearish on Mac Jones. But if we do draft him, I agree, there's no reason to have him sit. Flip Jimmy for what you can, use the cap room maybe on the o-line, and let's see what we've got

I think Mac would be ready to go in week 1. But you could still make the argument It might not be in his best interest not to be rushed out instantly week 1. People say our offense can be a complex one to learn. In the end though I do think if we draft Mac will get the start week 1. The question right now is what kind of interest is there for Jimmy. I am not sure there is as much as some think. 25+ mil a year for a guy who has been injured two of the last three season. I think Pats is our best bet, but the question is what do they think of the Qbs in the draft that might be available to them. I think if they offer us a 2nd rounder. We should take it and run.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
"It took Matt Ryan a year to learn Kyle Shanahan's offense. Give him time!"

This guy is supposedly the smartest man to ever go to the NFL and supposedly has a perfect photographic memory and has supposedly been running a version of Shanahan's offense for his whole college career. Based on what people have said about him, he should have the offense mastered by the time he's finished hugging Goodell on the podium.

I mean no reason Fields or Lance couldn't start day 1 either. That elite athleticism and mobility should allow them to run in a circle for 6 minutes and 12 seconds to confuse the D and tire them out, then they can just chuck the ball 60 yards down field to an wide open receiver.

Why sit an elite level athlete with God like mobility, a cannon arm and elite accuracy after we traded 3 first round picks to get him. Especially Fields, I mean guy is even smarter than Mac given that aptitude test score, no reason for him not to know our play book before we even give it to him.

That how you Anti Mac guys sound FYI.

I mean, if we do draft Fields, I think we likely do start him week 1. Possibly Lance as well. Sitting them and letting them develop is a nice thought, but Alex Smith isn't walking through that door anytime soon and Jimmy is not the one you want trying to fill that role.

It's not even being anti-Mac to suggest that he shouldn't need time to learn the offense. We've heard multiple times now how incredibly smart he is and how he's basically already running the Shanahan offense. If anything, he might be able to give Kyle some pointers on what he could do to improve the offense.

A guy who hasn't played in a year and when he did play it was against some DB named frank currently employed at Safeways produce section.

And the best thing we could do for a guy that hasn't played in a year is to continuing sitting him so that he hasn't played in two or three years? He needs reps more than anything. If they draft Lance, I'd rather they just start him and get him the playing time he needs. Yea, it might be ugly at first, but Shanahan can find ways to gradually bring him along.

Originally posted by Chance:

posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The RBs he's done wonders with almost all have some elite physical traits. I mean Mostert has been the fastest ball carrier in the league the last couple of years. Breida was right up there.

I don't know how much you can relate the two, because QB and RB are very different, but the skill position players he's gotten the most out of are almost all high-percentile athletes.

Originally posted by Chance:
Yeah, I'm not saying Kyle is wrong. In fact, who the hell am I to say what the winning NFL strategy should be? I like Kyle because he goes against the grain, and doing so can yield strides in innovation like what Walsh did with the WCO. But hubris can get in the way, as the sum of parts can always be diminished by the weakest link in a chain, especially if it occurs at the QB position. I say pick the guy with the highest ceiling and trust your staff to get him there.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If the sum is greater then the parts WHY are you giving up so much for Mac? If all you want is a system guy why are you losing a TON of capital to help make the sum GREATER? It's stupid plain and simple.

is what it is get ready for McCorkle...what a joke. The NFCW is loving this. GMs and FOs are loving that Kyle isn't getting an elite talent at QB. Whatever at this point. You have about 10% of the fan base happy over this move...I'm sure it will go over great

Who knows what Kyles planned? But with all the Hybrid players Kyle's bringing on the team, a guy like Mac maybe can employ these hybrid players in such a way to really put defenses in a bind with his *mind* more than his athletic ability.

I agree that Mac is more limited athletically than Lance and Fields, but I also don't see what Kyle has in mind with his system and the team overall. I would say that athleticism means a lot less at the QB position than the RB or other positions. But maybe its Mac's *mind* that attracts Kyle versus his athleticism. Also I do want to point out Mac isn't a statute - I think he's a good athlete. I think he's good enough to minimize yardage loss when there is blitzes and OLine breakdowns. I think he can even escape on occasion.

But what if I told you that the QB could too be a hybrid player, displaying intelligent pocket play while also taking advantage of their elite physical traits.

Kyle has said it previously, athleticism tends to delay QB development. Example: Why stay in the pocket and suffer a 2 yard loss vs use your athleticism to gain a first down. Steve Young lost 3 conference championships- would that be different if he didn't have the athleticism and was forced to develop his pocket skills the way he did at a later time in his career? I don't know the answer to that, but I know Kyle would have better answers than I could ever come up (regarding Mac, Lance, and Trey) because he has the knowledge and background to answer that better than I could.

Originally posted by Bloodless:

Originally posted by swayze:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I think Mac is going to tear it up. I wouldn't mind starting him right away. Trade Jimmy to NE for a 2nd and build around the rook.

I expect there to be a learning curve, and for the record I am (very) bearish on Mac Jones. But if we do draft him, I agree, there's no reason to have him sit. Flip Jimmy for what you can, use the cap room maybe on the o-line, and let's see what we've got

I think Mac would be ready to go in week 1. But you could still make the argument It might not be in his best interest not to be rushed out instantly week 1. People say our offense can be a complex one to learn. In the end though I do think if we draft Mac will get the start week 1. The question right now is what kind of interest is there for Jimmy. I am not sure there is as much as some think. 25+ mil a year for a guy who has been injured two of the last three season. I think Pats is our best bet, but the question is what do they think of the Qbs in the draft that might be available to them. I think if they offer us a 2nd rounder. We should take it and run.

Not hard to learn if you are The Super Processor

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
And the best thing we could do for a guy that hasn't played in a year is to continuing sitting him so that he hasn't played in two or three years? He needs reps more than anything. If they draft Lance, I'd rather they just start him and get him the playing time he needs. Yea, it might be ugly at first, but Shanahan can find ways to gradually bring him along.

It sounds nice in theory. But not reality.

Shanahan is not one to bring guys along. He wanted cousins because he knew his offense. Shanahan doesn't have time for another 2 or 3 losing seasons while lance is learning.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I think Mac is going to tear it up. I wouldn't mind starting him right away. Trade Jimmy to NE for a 2nd and build around the rook.

My dream Scenario is pitts at 3 and then trade Jimmy and the second plus filler to get back in to range for Mac or Mond.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Chance:

posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
The RBs he's done wonders with almost all have some elite physical traits. I mean Mostert has been the fastest ball carrier in the league the last couple of years. Breida was right up there.

I don't know how much you can relate the two, because QB and RB are very different, but the skill position players he's gotten the most out of are almost all high-percentile athletes.

Originally posted by Chance:
Yeah, I'm not saying Kyle is wrong. In fact, who the hell am I to say what the winning NFL strategy should be? I like Kyle because he goes against the grain, and doing so can yield strides in innovation like what Walsh did with the WCO. But hubris can get in the way, as the sum of parts can always be diminished by the weakest link in a chain, especially if it occurs at the QB position. I say pick the guy with the highest ceiling and trust your staff to get him there.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If the sum is greater then the parts WHY are you giving up so much for Mac? If all you want is a system guy why are you losing a TON of capital to help make the sum GREATER? It's stupid plain and simple.

is what it is get ready for McCorkle...what a joke. The NFCW is loving this. GMs and FOs are loving that Kyle isn't getting an elite talent at QB. Whatever at this point. You have about 10% of the fan base happy over this move...I'm sure it will go over great

Who knows what Kyles planned? But with all the Hybrid players Kyle's bringing on the team, a guy like Mac maybe can employ these hybrid players in such a way to really put defenses in a bind with his *mind* more than his athletic ability.

I agree that Mac is more limited athletically than Lance and Fields, but I also don't see what Kyle has in mind with his system and the team overall. I would say that athleticism means a lot less at the QB position than the RB or other positions. But maybe its Mac's *mind* that attracts Kyle versus his athleticism. Also I do want to point out Mac isn't a statute - I think he's a good athlete. I think he's good enough to minimize yardage loss when there is blitzes and OLine breakdowns. I think he can even escape on occasion.

But what if I told you that the QB could too be a hybrid player, displaying intelligent pocket play while also taking advantage of their elite physical traits.

Kyle has said it previously, athleticism tends to delay QB development. Example: Why stay in the pocket and suffer a 2 yard loss vs use your athleticism to gain a first down. Steve Young lost 3 conference championships- would that be different if he didn't have the athleticism and was forced to develop his pocket skills the way he did at a later time in his career? I don't know the answer to that, but I know Kyle would have better answers than I could ever come up (regarding Mac, Lance, and Trey) because he has the knowledge and background to answer that better than I could.

Did Kyle say that before or after getting his ass kicked by a plethora of underdeveloped, athletic QBs the last few years?

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle has said it previously, athleticism tends to delay QB development. Example: Why stay in the pocket and suffer a 2 yard loss vs use your athleticism to gain a first down. Steve Young lost 3 conference championships- would that be different if he didn't have the athleticism and was forced to develop his pocket skills the way he did at a later time in his career? I don't know the answer to that, but I know Kyle would have better answers than I could ever come up (regarding Mac, Lance, and Trey) because he has the knowledge and background to answer that better than I could.

I think it has in the past. Kids used their athleticism as a crutch. But with the new crop of athletic QBs being developed as pocket passers from early ages, I think the conventional binary thinking of you're either an athlete or a pocket QB is out the window.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle has said it previously, athleticism tends to delay QB development. Example: Why stay in the pocket and suffer a 2 yard loss vs use your athleticism to gain a first down. Steve Young lost 3 conference championships- would that be different if he didn't have the athleticism and was forced to develop his pocket skills the way he did at a later time in his career? I don't know the answer to that, but I know Kyle would have better answers than I could ever come up (regarding Mac, Lance, and Trey) because he has the knowledge and background to answer that better than I could.

We saw it with Young, Garcia and CK. That does not mean this crop will suffer the same. They might, but i suspect Lance more then Fields.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I think Mac is going to tear it up. I wouldn't mind starting him right away. Trade Jimmy to NE for a 2nd and build around the rook.

My dream Scenario is pitts at 3 and then trade Jimmy and the second plus filler to get back in to range for Mac or Mond.

I can dig it - that'd be gutsy.