Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Heroism:
And then there were 2:

As the #49ers close in on their decision of which QB to take at No. 3, sources say they are down to two prospects — and the belief is those two are #Bama QB Mac Jones and #NDSU QB Trey Lance. Several sources say the focus does appear to have shifted to those two.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 26, 2021

What happened to Fields?

They either want to start Jones from day 1 or sit Lance for the year. They must think Fields is good enough to start from day one but not good enough to win right away.

I'm telling you - that epilepsy is going to have people questioning taking him that high.

Cmon Mayo, that isn't moving the needle either way.

Probably, never know.

He's been fine up until now. And he's taken some hard hits.


After this hit he went on to have his career best with a fractured rib.

Unless you're worried he will go into epileptic seizure from pre-game strobe lights?

Do rib shots some how cause seizures?

What would cause any issues at the next level that he hasn't dealt with so far?

the only reason I brought up a hit was because I've seen posters mention it before.

There's only been one guy to play with epilepsy in the league, I forget his name. But, there isn't a bunch of guys playing with it.

Well not everyone has it. Of course there would be a small sample size. There is only a small percentage of players hat even make it into the NFL. But, as I mentioned, is there something different in the NFL that he hasn't already dealt with up until now? I'm genuinely asking.

Yeah, I'm sure he'll get picked regardless.

He might he might not. I don't know, I can see the reason for all three. But, I'm just wondering about this epilepsy thing. Because I see a lot of posters worried about it. I'm wondering how this changes anything?

Alan Faneca played with epilepsy for his entire HOF career, in one of the most physically punishing positions on the field. Fields should be fine. It's a non-factor to me.

I don't think it's a factor for any team as well.

No at #3. But they could possibly be that dumb. I just don't see how he is worth #3 overall.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Heroism:
And then there were 2:

As the #49ers close in on their decision of which QB to take at No. 3, sources say they are down to two prospects — and the belief is those two are #Bama QB Mac Jones and #NDSU QB Trey Lance. Several sources say the focus does appear to have shifted to those two.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 26, 2021

What happened to Fields?

They either want to start Jones from day 1 or sit Lance for the year. They must think Fields is good enough to start from day one but not good enough to win right away.

I'm telling you - that epilepsy is going to have people questioning taking him that high.

Cmon Mayo, that isn't moving the needle either way.

Probably, never know.

He's been fine up until now. And he's taken some hard hits.


After this hit he went on to have his career best with a fractured rib.

Unless you're worried he will go into epileptic seizure from pre-game strobe lights?

Do rib shots some how cause seizures?

What would cause any issues at the next level that he hasn't dealt with so far?

the only reason I brought up a hit was because I've seen posters mention it before.

There's only been one guy to play with epilepsy in the league, I forget his name. But, there isn't a bunch of guys playing with it.

Well not everyone has it. Of course there would be a small sample size. There is only a small percentage of players hat even make it into the NFL. But, as I mentioned, is there something different in the NFL that he hasn't already dealt with up until now? I'm genuinely asking.

Yeah, I'm sure he'll get picked regardless.

He might he might not. I don't know, I can see the reason for all three. But, I'm just wondering about this epilepsy thing. Because I see a lot of posters worried about it. I'm wondering how this changes anything?

Alan Faneca played with epilepsy for his entire HOF career, in one of the most physically punishing positions on the field. Fields should be fine. It's a non-factor to me.

That's who it was, Faneca - he had no issues.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by mayo49:
I need some goddamn news.

We're drafting Mac.

Mac, Lance or Fields - I'm good with.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Heroism:
And then there were 2:

As the #49ers close in on their decision of which QB to take at No. 3, sources say they are down to two prospects — and the belief is those two are #Bama QB Mac Jones and #NDSU QB Trey Lance. Several sources say the focus does appear to have shifted to those two.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 26, 2021

What happened to Fields?

Dropping...

Wow, is it the seizures?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
This thread is ridiculous.

We hire Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius, to win us Lombardi trophies, but we don't give him the quarterback that allows him to run his offense? We just don't seem to grasp this is not a physical position. All the great quarterbacks beat you with their heads, not their physical prowess. Physical specimens at the position are a dime a dozen. The guys that have minds so quick that no matter what you try to do to stop them, they make what you just did wrong. That, folks, is he way to win against the intelligent defenses of the NFL today.

Kyle can't trust Jimmy Garoppolo. The lack of trust runs so deep that he only threw eight times against Green Bay in the playoffs. Every game, he knows there will be a least a couple of WTF plays. He can't play his game of making you defend "every blade of grass", because everybody in the league knows Jimmy can't hit the deep ball. The world Screams "Lets Make Garoppolo Beat Us" Every Sunday. We Lost the Super Bowl because Jimmy couldn't hit Sanders when he beat his man by five yards. But, Mac is no good because his guys get open too often.

Mac Jones Never has WTF plays. Mac Jones hits the deep balls. Mac Jones is The Man that Shanahan can trust. If we can't see that, we are selfish in our biases and not good fans. Either trust Shanahan to go get his man, or now is the time to go find your next head coach. Not.

OK, yes, you need good enough physical traits. We can't do it with noodle arm Sean Hill. Mac's deep balls show he has enough arm strength. Oh, but he's slow. His 40 time is 4.79. Jimmy Garoppolo's is 4.97. Joe Montana's is 4.7. Tua's is 4.90. Hell, Jerry freakin Rice's is 4.71

How about the latest Super Bowl winning quarterbacks? Per Google:

Tom Brady 5.28

Patrick Mahomes 4.80 4.80, people. Does that surprise you?

Tom Brady 5.28

Nick foles 5.14

Tom Brady 5.28

Peyton Manning 4.80

Tom Brady 5.28

Russsell Wilson 4.55

Joe Flacco 4.84

Eli Manning 4.92

Aaron Rodgers 4.71

Drew Brees 4.83

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Eli Manning 4.92

Peyton Manning 4.80

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Tom Brady 5.28

TomBrady 5.28

Brad Johnson 5.02

Tom Brady 5.28

Trent Dilfer 4.7

So, 5 of the last 21 Super Bowls winners were quarterbacked by oh so slightly faster men. Less than 24 percent. Man, don't give me that loser. (Oh Wait, he's the National Champion?) Give me somebody more athletic, and I will develop his mental quickness to that of the top five out of 330 million.

Good Luck.

Someone asked me where I got that Mac was more athletic than 76 percent of all of the Super Bowl winners this century. Yes, it is based on the NFL gold standard of 40 times. With a 32 inch vertical, I think that will likely stand up, but do your own math if you can find all of the numbers.

We all want to worship our athletic hero's, but let's look at history. Who's won 4 league championships? Johnny Unitas, who came into the league as a 194 pound rookie. Three of his championships came before the Super Bowl era. Joe Montana, who fell to the third round because of Exactly the same physical criticisms we hear about Mac. Tom Brady, who came into the league at 5.28 40, twenty frickin years ago. What do you suppose his 40 time is now? Oh, he's got 7 of the wins, so let's throw that out. No. He's got the slowest 40 time of all, and he's still doing it. What does that tell you? What Everything tells me about the NFL quarterback position. It Is A Mental Position. Yes, you need adequate arm strength. Nothing more, physically. The headwork separates the great ones.

Watch the experts break down Mac Jones mental acuity. I have Never seen such proven mental quickness coming out of college ball. Add to that his ball placement, footwork, pocket presence, and everything else, and he's as low risk of a prospect as you can get. If you realize what separates the all time great quarterbacks from the rest is All mental, and Not physical, and understand how Kyle needs that to achieve his greatness, you will see that Mac is our future.

Can it be taught to all these guys. NO! Can a bad pilot learn to be an OK pilot? Yes. Can an OK pilot learn to be a good pilot? Yes. Can any of them learn to be a Great pilot? NO! The aptitude has to be there. NY criticized me for saying that Kyle will really Love his job just being able to talk to Mac. I believe that's true, because for the first time in his life, he will have a Player that will keep up with him. Would my physics or aerodynamics professors enjoy talking advanced concepts with me? Uhh, No.

Is there evidence that Fields can get there? The way he has handled the blitz, maybe not.

Is there evidence that Lance can get there"? Yes, there is. He's a student of the game, and often sets his own plays based on what the defense is showing him. I believe he's got a Very quick mind, and there is a good chance. Bottom line, though, is that he's just not as far along as Mac is, and since it's such a low percentage of players that truly reach the top notch of NFL mental acuity, it is a gamble. Here's the bottom line. If our "window" is open now, and if Garoppolo's durability is questionable, and If we are going to need a back up to step in this year, Mac is our guy.

Here's the bottom line on Mac Jones. The knock on his physicality is Way overblown hyperbole. He's not below average in Anything. IMO, he's the best collegiate prospect Ever mentally, and that's the most important "trait" that's predictive of success in the NFL.

We've all got the right to criticize our players, but we also claim to be fans. To be fair, let's criticize them when they screw up, or show us they're inadequate. Not when we make up ceilings on them.

I agree with most of your thoughts, not all of it, of course. But the post is well said.

You actually read that

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Heroism:
And then there were 2:

As the #49ers close in on their decision of which QB to take at No. 3, sources say they are down to two prospects — and the belief is those two are #Bama QB Mac Jones and #NDSU QB Trey Lance. Several sources say the focus does appear to have shifted to those two.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 26, 2021

What happened to Fields?

Honestly though. Give me Lance if this is true, but I'm not buying this as truth.

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle has said it previously, athleticism tends to delay QB development. Example: Why stay in the pocket and suffer a 2 yard loss vs use your athleticism to gain a first down. Steve Young lost 3 conference championships- would that be different if he didn't have the athleticism and was forced to develop his pocket skills the way he did at a later time in his career? I don't know the answer to that, but I know Kyle would have better answers than I could ever come up (regarding Mac, Lance, and Trey) because he has the knowledge and background to answer that better than I could.

I think it has in the past. Kids used their athleticism as a crutch. But with the new crop of athletic QBs being developed as pocket passers from early ages, I think the conventional binary thinking of you're either an athlete or a pocket QB is out the window.

If that's the case Kyle will pick Trey or Lance.

But if NCs number's are correct and athleticism only affects 3 or 4 plays a game, people might have to revisit the importance of athleticism.

I think the bigger factor is the rules changes to the QB position, and whether that can be taken advantage of by athletic QBs. So far the only plays I know that might take advantage of those rules changes are RPO plays. Even RPO plays, the QB still has to be a decent passer to really take advantage of those situations.

As for Mac's athleticism- i think he's not that much worse than Joe Montana in terms of pocket escapability. I can see Mac run the sprint right option with no problems, for example.

I've watched Russell Wilson carve up our defense enough to know that his athleticism effects more than 3 plays in a game. That's quite a weird stat NC references based on seemingly subjective analysis about what makes a play defined by athleticism.

Joe coming out was quite athletic, getting a basketball scholarship offer prior to college. It was discussed quite a bit yesterday. I was too young to remember his early days so I can't speak to that.

Well I watched Joe, and from my eye, and the VHS tapes I have, Mac isn't that much worse than Joe. Point being Mac's not a statue back there. He has some pocket escapability.

As for Midget 1 and 2 of the NFC West. These so called athletic QBs seem to have a lot of problems once the playoffs start and they are facing elite teams that are able to shut down their athleticism. I think Kurt Warner said it best, you want a QB with pocket skills first, and then you ask ok, does any of them have anything extra that adds to their existing pocket skills (athleticism being one skill) so he assesses pocket skills first.

So if you do the Kurt Warner analysis, Mac would be first, and Trey and Fields are ranked lower. The question that I can't answer is whether or not Fields or Lance can overcome Mac's lead with their athleticism. Thats for Kyle to answer since its his offensive scheme.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well I watched Joe, and from my eye, and the VHS tapes I have, Mac isn't that much worse than Joe. Point being Mac's not a statue back there. He has some pocket escapability.

As for Midget 1 and 2 of the NFC West. These so called athletic QBs seem to have a lot of problems once the playoffs start and they are facing elite teams that are able to shut down their athleticism. I think Kurt Warner said it best, you want a QB with pocket skills first, and then you ask ok, does any of them have anything extra that adds to their existing pocket skills (athleticism being one skill) so he assesses pocket skills first.

So if you do the Kurt Warner analysis, Mac would be first, and Trey and Fields are ranked lower. The question that I can't answer is whether or not Fields or Lance can overcome Mac's lead with their athleticism. Thats for Kyle to answer since its his offensive scheme.

Well, one thing, I don't think the key for Fields or Lance is to overcome mac's lead with their athleticism as much as it is to lean on their athleticism until they can catch up to Mac in terms of recognizing blitzes, pocket adjustment, manipulating the defense with their eyes, etc—all the areas he's supposedly ahead

Originally posted by Viperboy:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
This thread is ridiculous.

We hire Kyle Shanahan, the offensive genius, to win us Lombardi trophies, but we don't give him the quarterback that allows him to run his offense? We just don't seem to grasp this is not a physical position. All the great quarterbacks beat you with their heads, not their physical prowess. Physical specimens at the position are a dime a dozen. The guys that have minds so quick that no matter what you try to do to stop them, they make what you just did wrong. That, folks, is he way to win against the intelligent defenses of the NFL today.

Kyle can't trust Jimmy Garoppolo. The lack of trust runs so deep that he only threw eight times against Green Bay in the playoffs. Every game, he knows there will be a least a couple of WTF plays. He can't play his game of making you defend "every blade of grass", because everybody in the league knows Jimmy can't hit the deep ball. The world Screams "Lets Make Garoppolo Beat Us" Every Sunday. We Lost the Super Bowl because Jimmy couldn't hit Sanders when he beat his man by five yards. But, Mac is no good because his guys get open too often.

Mac Jones Never has WTF plays. Mac Jones hits the deep balls. Mac Jones is The Man that Shanahan can trust. If we can't see that, we are selfish in our biases and not good fans. Either trust Shanahan to go get his man, or now is the time to go find your next head coach. Not.

OK, yes, you need good enough physical traits. We can't do it with noodle arm Sean Hill. Mac's deep balls show he has enough arm strength. Oh, but he's slow. His 40 time is 4.79. Jimmy Garoppolo's is 4.97. Joe Montana's is 4.7. Tua's is 4.90. Hell, Jerry freakin Rice's is 4.71

How about the latest Super Bowl winning quarterbacks? Per Google:

Tom Brady 5.28

Patrick Mahomes 4.80 4.80, people. Does that surprise you?

Tom Brady 5.28

Nick foles 5.14

Tom Brady 5.28

Peyton Manning 4.80

Tom Brady 5.28

Russsell Wilson 4.55

Joe Flacco 4.84

Eli Manning 4.92

Aaron Rodgers 4.71

Drew Brees 4.83

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Eli Manning 4.92

Peyton Manning 4.80

Ben Roethlisberger 4.75

Tom Brady 5.28

TomBrady 5.28

Brad Johnson 5.02

Tom Brady 5.28

Trent Dilfer 4.7

So, 5 of the last 21 Super Bowls winners were quarterbacked by oh so slightly faster men. Less than 24 percent. Man, don't give me that loser. (Oh Wait, he's the National Champion?) Give me somebody more athletic, and I will develop his mental quickness to that of the top five out of 330 million.

Good Luck.

Someone asked me where I got that Mac was more athletic than 76 percent of all of the Super Bowl winners this century. Yes, it is based on the NFL gold standard of 40 times. With a 32 inch vertical, I think that will likely stand up, but do your own math if you can find all of the numbers.

We all want to worship our athletic hero's, but let's look at history. Who's won 4 league championships? Johnny Unitas, who came into the league as a 194 pound rookie. Three of his championships came before the Super Bowl era. Joe Montana, who fell to the third round because of Exactly the same physical criticisms we hear about Mac. Tom Brady, who came into the league at 5.28 40, twenty frickin years ago. What do you suppose his 40 time is now? Oh, he's got 7 of the wins, so let's throw that out. No. He's got the slowest 40 time of all, and he's still doing it. What does that tell you? What Everything tells me about the NFL quarterback position. It Is A Mental Position. Yes, you need adequate arm strength. Nothing more, physically. The headwork separates the great ones.

Watch the experts break down Mac Jones mental acuity. I have Never seen such proven mental quickness coming out of college ball. Add to that his ball placement, footwork, pocket presence, and everything else, and he's as low risk of a prospect as you can get. If you realize what separates the all time great quarterbacks from the rest is All mental, and Not physical, and understand how Kyle needs that to achieve his greatness, you will see that Mac is our future.

Can it be taught to all these guys. NO! Can a bad pilot learn to be an OK pilot? Yes. Can an OK pilot learn to be a good pilot? Yes. Can any of them learn to be a Great pilot? NO! The aptitude has to be there. NY criticized me for saying that Kyle will really Love his job just being able to talk to Mac. I believe that's true, because for the first time in his life, he will have a Player that will keep up with him. Would my physics or aerodynamics professors enjoy talking advanced concepts with me? Uhh, No.

Is there evidence that Fields can get there? The way he has handled the blitz, maybe not.

Is there evidence that Lance can get there"? Yes, there is. He's a student of the game, and often sets his own plays based on what the defense is showing him. I believe he's got a Very quick mind, and there is a good chance. Bottom line, though, is that he's just not as far along as Mac is, and since it's such a low percentage of players that truly reach the top notch of NFL mental acuity, it is a gamble. Here's the bottom line. If our "window" is open now, and if Garoppolo's durability is questionable, and If we are going to need a back up to step in this year, Mac is our guy.

Here's the bottom line on Mac Jones. The knock on his physicality is Way overblown hyperbole. He's not below average in Anything. IMO, he's the best collegiate prospect Ever mentally, and that's the most important "trait" that's predictive of success in the NFL.

We've all got the right to criticize our players, but we also claim to be fans. To be fair, let's criticize them when they screw up, or show us they're inadequate. Not when we make up ceilings on them.

I agree with most of your thoughts, not all of it, of course. But the post is well said.

You actually read that

It took a while but yeah. he basically said Mac will be fine in Kyles system and is plenty athletic enough to athletically satisfy Kyle, if Kyle picks him, for his system.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
No at #3. But they could possibly be that dumb. I just don't see how he is worth #3 overall.

+ two 1st rounders

Originally posted by swayze:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well I watched Joe, and from my eye, and the VHS tapes I have, Mac isn't that much worse than Joe. Point being Mac's not a statue back there. He has some pocket escapability.

As for Midget 1 and 2 of the NFC West. These so called athletic QBs seem to have a lot of problems once the playoffs start and they are facing elite teams that are able to shut down their athleticism. I think Kurt Warner said it best, you want a QB with pocket skills first, and then you ask ok, does any of them have anything extra that adds to their existing pocket skills (athleticism being one skill) so he assesses pocket skills first.

So if you do the Kurt Warner analysis, Mac would be first, and Trey and Fields are ranked lower. The question that I can't answer is whether or not Fields or Lance can overcome Mac's lead with their athleticism. Thats for Kyle to answer since its his offensive scheme.

Well, one thing, I don't think the key for Fields or Lance is to overcome mac's lead with their athleticism as much as it is to lean on their athleticism until they can catch up to Mac in terms of recognizing blitzes, pocket adjustment, manipulating the defense with their eyes, etc—all the areas he's supposedly ahead

Well thats the other point Kyle makes. If they *lean* on their athleticism- in his experience he says it delays their pocket QB development. He is saying that, not me. But seeing Steve be a one read and run QB for years, makes me kind of agree with him.

Now you look at Mahomes and the pro Field's/Lance guys say Mahomes did fine developing behind Alex, therefore Fields/Lance will be just fine. But this isn't Fat Andy's offense, this is Kyles offense- one of the more compelx offenses in the NFL. Again, its that athleticism vs intangibles argument --- i don't have the answer to that question, but Kyle will have to come up with one on the 29th, he can't pick two QBs with that #3 pick.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Heroism:
And then there were 2:

As the #49ers close in on their decision of which QB to take at No. 3, sources say they are down to two prospects — and the belief is those two are #Bama QB Mac Jones and #NDSU QB Trey Lance. Several sources say the focus does appear to have shifted to those two.

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 26, 2021

What happened to Fields?

They either want to start Jones from day 1 or sit Lance for the year. They must think Fields is good enough to start from day one but not good enough to win right away.

I'm telling you - that epilepsy is going to have people questioning taking him that high.

Cmon Mayo, that isn't moving the needle either way.

Probably, never know.

He's been fine up until now. And he's taken some hard hits.


After this hit he went on to have his career best with a fractured rib.

Unless you're worried he will go into epileptic seizure from pre-game strobe lights?

Do rib shots some how cause seizures?

What would cause any issues at the next level that he hasn't dealt with so far?

the only reason I brought up a hit was because I've seen posters mention it before.

There's only been one guy to play with epilepsy in the league, I forget his name. But, there isn't a bunch of guys playing with it.

Well not everyone has it. Of course there would be a small sample size. There is only a small percentage of players hat even make it into the NFL. But, as I mentioned, is there something different in the NFL that he hasn't already dealt with up until now? I'm genuinely asking.

Yeah, I'm sure he'll get picked regardless.

He might he might not. I don't know, I can see the reason for all three. But, I'm just wondering about this epilepsy thing. Because I see a lot of posters worried about it. I'm wondering how this changes anything?

Alan Faneca played with epilepsy for his entire HOF career, in one of the most physically punishing positions on the field. Fields should be fine. It's a non-factor to me.

That's who it was, Faneca - he had no issues.

Knowing our injury history- you know my stance on any players with pre existing health problems.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle has said it previously, athleticism tends to delay QB development. Example: Why stay in the pocket and suffer a 2 yard loss vs use your athleticism to gain a first down. Steve Young lost 3 conference championships- would that be different if he didn't have the athleticism and was forced to develop his pocket skills the way he did at a later time in his career? I don't know the answer to that, but I know Kyle would have better answers than I could ever come up (regarding Mac, Lance, and Trey) because he has the knowledge and background to answer that better than I could.

I think it has in the past. Kids used their athleticism as a crutch. But with the new crop of athletic QBs being developed as pocket passers from early ages, I think the conventional binary thinking of you're either an athlete or a pocket QB is out the window.

If that's the case Kyle will pick Trey or Lance.

But if NCs number's are correct and athleticism only affects 3 or 4 plays a game, people might have to revisit the importance of athleticism.

I think the bigger factor is the rules changes to the QB position, and whether that can be taken advantage of by athletic QBs. So far the only plays I know that might take advantage of those rules changes are RPO plays. Even RPO plays, the QB still has to be a decent passer to really take advantage of those situations.

As for Mac's athleticism- i think he's not that much worse than Joe Montana in terms of pocket escapability. I can see Mac run the sprint right option with no problems, for example.

I've watched Russell Wilson carve up our defense enough to know that his athleticism effects more than 3 plays in a game. That's quite a weird stat NC references based on seemingly subjective analysis about what makes a play defined by athleticism.

Joe coming out was quite athletic, getting a basketball scholarship offer prior to college. It was discussed quite a bit yesterday. I was too young to remember his early days so I can't speak to that.

Well I watched Joe, and from my eye, and the VHS tapes I have, Mac isn't that much worse than Joe. Point being Mac's not a statue back there. He has some pocket escapability.

As for Midget 1 and 2 of the NFC West. These so called athletic QBs seem to have a lot of problems once the playoffs start and they are facing elite teams that are able to shut down their athleticism. I think Kurt Warner said it best, you want a QB with pocket skills first, and then you ask ok, does any of them have anything extra that adds to their existing pocket skills (athleticism being one skill) so he assesses pocket skills first.

So if you do the Kurt Warner analysis, Mac would be first, and Trey and Fields are ranked lower. The question that I can't answer is whether or not Fields or Lance can overcome Mac's lead with their athleticism. Thats for Kyle to answer since its his offensive scheme.

Yeah Warner gave a really good breakdown. I like his take that for him Mac is a guaranteed starter... The question is whether or not he can be better than just good and be a transcendent player. The limiting factor there is gonna be pure arm talent. These other guys don't have Macs processing or foot work or ability to manipulate defenses post snap. But they do have superior arm talent. If Mac can make the off platform throws he has all the traits of a hall of famer. But that's something he didn't show much of in college. It's a question that will be answered in the pros.

Honestly that's where the hate is coming from. What Mac is far and away superior at are traits that fans can't easily see. Making reads is a tough one. You need someone with an intricate knowledge of the position and the teams offense to walk you through it. Foot work is even more mundane. I don't know what I'm looking at without JTO or Simms or Warner walking me thru it. It's easy to see arm talent and athleticism though... Which just happen to be Macs weaknesses. In the pros we're still not looking at reads and foot work but we can just use stats and wins and losses then. Macs issue is no one believes the stats since he played on the best team and the average fan can't see what he's amazing at.

Originally posted by ForeverYoung8:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
No at #3. But they could possibly be that dumb. I just don't see how he is worth #3 overall.

+ two 1st rounders

It was actually number twelve plus two first rounders which equals the number three.