Randy Moss apparently still smoking a lot of weed

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Jerry Rice
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
.
.
.
Everyone else.

I'm not saying you are wrong with your three players, but I simply don't put those three up there together, and seemingly dismiss everyone else in the history of the game. I see that as somewhat of an insult to guys who played in eras where you could get your ass kicked all day long. There once was a time when 50 catches and about 850 yards in a season was considered excellent. As great as Owens, Moss and even to an extent Rice was, they all benefitted from pass/receiving numbers going through the roof. Now Rice, prior to the first set of major rule changes/enforcements in 1994, put up some devastating numbers, and was the best receiver in football...and the best receiver I've ever seen...

However, during his run from 1986-1994, the next best receiver in that era was Sterling Sharpe. Go look at what that guy did before a neck injury ended his career. In those years stated, Sharpe managed to lead the league in catches three times, yardage once and TD catches twice. That's 6 times, in a shortened career in which he led the NFL in a major category, in Jerry farkin Rice's prime years no less. Neither Moss nor Owens accomplished that in far longer careers - and without dealing with a prime Rice. Sharpe was a three time first team all pro, when the other all pro starter was practically a given, and IMO, was better than Moss, Owens, Fitzgerald...or practically anybody in the history of the game save for JR. He just didn't advertise himself like Randy or T.O.

Go look at someone like Paul Warfield. Think of what the Niners did in the NFC title game last year against GB - that was somewhat Warfield's career in a nutshell. Started his career with the Jim Brown/Leroy Kelly Cleveland Browns, and basically ended his career with the Csonka/Morris/Kiick rushing attack of the Dolphins. He still went to 8 Pro Bowls (when they were actually legit) and had more All Pro first nods than Larry Fitzgerald. Again...he was as good as Owens/Moss/Fitz, but doesn't get recognized anywhere near that class.

Again....I'm not accusing you specifically, but people need to stop believing that the NFL started in the year 2000.

If yahveh could design the perfect physical tools for a wide receiver it would be the ones Randy Moss had.

However Jerry isn't too far behind. And Jerry was actually even better at adjusting to balls in the air and working the short and underneath zones.

And of course Jerry's work ethic is legendary and transcendental not just in football but all sports, any sport. He was one of the hardest working professional athletes of any sport the last two centuries. And the results showed in statistics and to the naked eye on the football field.

So moss can toke up and whine about shoulda coulda woulda all he wants. Jerry is the guy you pick first when sides are made in the sandlot.

And are randy and to really number 2 or 3? I can think of a few guys who i might take before even if they didnt have as long careers, fitzgerald notwithstanding.

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Jerry Rice
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
.
.
.
Everyone else.

I'm not saying you are wrong with your three players, but I simply don't put those three up there together, and seemingly dismiss everyone else in the history of the game. I see that as somewhat of an insult to guys who played in eras where you could get your ass kicked all day long. There once was a time when 50 catches and about 850 yards in a season was considered excellent. As great as Owens, Moss and even to an extent Rice was, they all benefitted from pass/receiving numbers going through the roof. Now Rice, prior to the first set of major rule changes/enforcements in 1994, put up some devastating numbers, and was the best receiver in football...and the best receiver I've ever seen...

However, during his run from 1986-1994, the next best receiver in that era was Sterling Sharpe. Go look at what that guy did before a neck injury ended his career. In those years stated, Sharpe managed to lead the league in catches three times, yardage once and TD catches twice. That's 6 times, in a shortened career in which he led the NFL in a major category, in Jerry farkin Rice's prime years no less. Neither Moss nor Owens accomplished that in far longer careers - and without dealing with a prime Rice. Sharpe was a three time first team all pro, when the other all pro starter was practically a given, and IMO, was better than Moss, Owens, Fitzgerald...or practically anybody in the history of the game save for JR. He just didn't advertise himself like Randy or T.O.

Go look at someone like Paul Warfield. Think of what the Niners did in the NFC title game last year against GB - that was somewhat Warfield's career in a nutshell. Started his career with the Jim Brown/Leroy Kelly Cleveland Browns, and basically ended his career with the Csonka/Morris/Kiick rushing attack of the Dolphins. He still went to 8 Pro Bowls (when they were actually legit) and had more All Pro first nods than Larry Fitzgerald. Again...he was as good as Owens/Moss/Fitz, but doesn't get recognized anywhere near that class.

Again....I'm not accusing you specifically, but people need to stop believing that the NFL started in the year 2000.

Kudos to bringing up Sharpe (should be a Hall of Famer) and Warfield. Amazing receiver that helped take the Dolphins offense to another level (Griese, Kiick, and Csonka were already there). Had some 11 TDs on 29 catches one year if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
We could legitimately divide the WCO history into pre-Jerry Rice and post-Jerry Rice. The offense hit different. Montana, for all of his greatness (and he is the GOAT QB in my opinion) went to a different level when Rice got on this team. And yeah, Rice from 86 to say 90 or 92, was devastating. Didn't he have a year when he averaged over 20 yards per catch? There is the 22 TDs in 12 games....it's ridiculous.

Don't forget that Montana led the Niners to 2 SB wins before Rice got on the team. His next 2 were with Rice and Taylor in 1989-1990.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

If yahveh could design the perfect physical tools for a wide receiver it would be the ones Randy Moss had.

However Jerry isn't too far behind. And Jerry was actually even better at adjusting to balls in the air and working the short and underneath zones.

And of course Jerry's work ethic is legendary and transcendental not just in football but all sports, any sport. He was one of the hardest working professional athletes of any sport the last two centuries. And the results showed in statistics and to the naked eye on the football field.

So moss can toke up and whine about shoulda coulda woulda all he wants. Jerry is the guy you pick first when sides are made in the sandlot.

And are randy and to really number 2 or 3? I can think of a few guys who i might take before even if they didnt have as long careers, fitzgerald notwithstanding.

Yep. Regarding the physical tools, Moss was born with the lot. Except, perhaps, what Rice had between his ears. A level of commitment that Moss could not approach.

Sterling Sharpe should be in the Hall of Fame.

Moss put up some huge numbers over a selected period of time. When calling someone the GOAT so much more goes into that ranking. When you put up the intangibles such as work ethic Moss can't come near Jerry. Moss could be having contract issues with his employer and he needs his name out there. It makes no difference if it is real or fake news, getting your name out there is the final denominator.

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

I'm not saying you are wrong with your three players, but I simply don't put those three up there together, and seemingly dismiss everyone else in the history of the game. I see that as somewhat of an insult to guys who played in eras where you could get your ass kicked all day long. There once was a time when 50 catches and about 850 yards in a season was considered excellent. As great as Owens, Moss and even to an extent Rice was, they all benefitted from pass/receiving numbers going through the roof. Now Rice, prior to the first set of major rule changes/enforcements in 1994, put up some devastating numbers, and was the best receiver in football...and the best receiver I've ever seen...

However, during his run from 1986-1994, the next best receiver in that era was Sterling Sharpe. Go look at what that guy did before a neck injury ended his career. In those years stated, Sharpe managed to lead the league in catches three times, yardage once and TD catches twice. That's 6 times, in a shortened career in which he led the NFL in a major category, in Jerry farkin Rice's prime years no less. Neither Moss nor Owens accomplished that in far longer careers - and without dealing with a prime Rice. Sharpe was a three time first team all pro, when the other all pro starter was practically a given, and IMO, was better than Moss, Owens, Fitzgerald...or practically anybody in the history of the game save for JR. He just didn't advertise himself like Randy or T.O.

Go look at someone like Paul Warfield. Think of what the Niners did in the NFC title game last year against GB - that was somewhat Warfield's career in a nutshell. Started his career with the Jim Brown/Leroy Kelly Cleveland Browns, and basically ended his career with the Csonka/Morris/Kiick rushing attack of the Dolphins. He still went to 8 Pro Bowls (when they were actually legit) and had more All Pro first nods than Larry Fitzgerald. Again...he was as good as Owens/Moss/Fitz, but doesn't get recognized anywhere near that class.

Again....I'm not accusing you specifically, but people need to stop believing that the NFL started in the year 2000.

Good post

Rice is the Legend. The GOAT. It is not close enough to debate.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Damn. I forgot about fitzgerald. I out him over both to and moss due for mostly longtivity

Agreed it's Rice then a debate between megatron and fitz, then moss, then a debate with TO and everyone else. TO is arguably not in the top 5

Ridiculous.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Damn. I forgot about fitzgerald. I out him over both to and moss due for mostly longtivity

Agreed it's Rice then a debate between megatron and fitz, then moss, then a debate with TO and everyone else. TO is arguably not in the top 5

Ridiculous.

I'd put him in the top 5, but I get the argument. After Rice there's a drop off and then you have a pool of elite WRs who are more open to debate: Moss, Fitz, Megatron, T.O. Marvin Harrison, and probably a few others. I'd say T.O. is #3 or 4, definitely in the top five but I can see someone having him at #6, he did drop the ball a lot.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
We could legitimately divide the WCO history into pre-Jerry Rice and post-Jerry Rice. The offense hit different. Montana, for all of his greatness (and he is the GOAT QB in my opinion) went to a different level when Rice got on this team. And yeah, Rice from 86 to say 90 or 92, was devastating. Didn't he have a year when he averaged over 20 yards per catch? There is the 22 TDs in 12 games....it's ridiculous.

Don't forget that Montana led the Niners to 2 SB wins before Rice got on the team. His next 2 were with Rice and Taylor in 1989-1990.

Not forgetting that. Just talking about Rice at the moment and the difference in the offense before he was drafted and after. Nothing I said takes away from what Montana did before 1985.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
I dont remember Randy stonewalling Pro-Bowl safeties

That's Steve At**ter who's going to the hall next year.

this ones better

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
Damn. I forgot about fitzgerald. I out him over both to and moss due for mostly longtivity

Agreed it's Rice then a debate between megatron and fitz, then moss, then a debate with TO and everyone else. TO is arguably not in the top 5

Ridiculous.

There is a reason why TO and Moss in their prime were moved around like they had the plague. Both had bad attitudes and were at times considered team killers.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Damn. I forgot about fitzgerald. I out him over both to and moss due for mostly longtivity

Agreed it's Rice then a debate between megatron and fitz, then moss, then a debate with TO and everyone else. TO is arguably not in the top 5

Ridiculous.

There is a reason why TO and Moss in their prime were moved around like they had the plague. Both had bad attitudes and were at times considered team killers.

I'll always have TO in top 5. He was a diva, true. But his catch against the Packers to win the playoff game (I know he had like 5 drops too), 283 yards receiving against the Bears, and being dominant in the Super Bowl with the Eagles while pretty much playing on a broken leg.