Deshaun Watson

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
can't players association appeal goodell's appeal? if so who wins?

League wins

"The NFLPA can buy time or goodwill from its members by drawing this out, but the new CBA, signed in 2020, is just like the old ones: The NFL has ironclad language in its corner that will give it the "win," as it did in Deflategate and other cases that have gone to court. A handful of Browns fans and generally anti-NFL analysts have floated ideas of far-reaching lawsuits that would turn the league on its head and embarrass owners. That's not how any of this works. There is, in the end, one outcome."

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/8/3/23291282/nfl-appeal-deshaun-watson-suspension-cleveland-browns

cool, thanks for the info!

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by random49er:
Everything is optics @ this point,...lol.

In the end Goodell has the final say but with the new appointee instead of just ruling himself,....he's still tippie toeing that fine line IMO so as to keep his name out of the Federal court stuff if and when the PA appeals.

He needs to "look tough." That is the ultimate goal in all of this here.

Yup. They took a PR hit with the Ray Rice thing they were too lenient, then the video came out thru TMZ and there was huge backlash. All about dollars and "protect the shield" at this point. MLB already ran a similar calculation and gave a 2 year suspension for Bauer. Better to be too strong on protecting women than too lenient for optics, which I guarantee you is what the league is discussing behind closed doors.

Good points made.

League is pushing for a year. This is going to get ugly, but we already knew it.

Originally posted by FL9er:
League is pushing for a year. This is going to get ugly, but we already knew it.

If Roger wants a full year then it's a year. I mean the NFLPA can appeal it back to Roger I guess if they want to waste time.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by FL9er:
League is pushing for a year. This is going to get ugly, but we already knew it.

If Roger wants a full year then it's a year. I mean the NFLPA can appeal it back to Roger I guess if they want to waste time.

This whole thing is a mess. NFLPA and Watson can sue the league, potentially getting a stay of the suspension and Deshaun starts Week 1.. although unlikely it is possible.

What I am hearing.. if it goes to the courts NFL and Watson/NFLPA lose control of the timing.. may not be decided until deep into the season.. with Watson & the league in limbo the whole way..

If I'm the Browns I am angling to get Watson & the NFL together to agree on a deal.. maybe 12 games and Watson loses some real money.. that way it's settled.. no uncertainty and forward we go..

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
This whole thing is a mess. NFLPA and Watson can sue the league, potentially getting a stay of the suspension and Deshaun starts Week 1.. although unlikely it is possible.

What I am hearing.. if it goes to the courts NFL and Watson/NFLPA lose control of the timing.. may not be decided until deep into the season.. with Watson & the league in limbo the whole way..

If I'm the Browns I am angling to get Watson & the NFL together to agree on a deal.. maybe 12 games and Watson loses some real money.. that way it's settled.. no uncertainty and forward we go..

The problem with only giving him 6 games is it sets a precedent for future offenses. I mean how can you ever in the future give a player more than a 6 game suspension unless they murder someone? For instance how could failing a wellness policy get you the same amount of games as what Watson did? Ridley got a year for betting on games that didn't even involve his team.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by FL9er:
League is pushing for a year. This is going to get ugly, but we already knew it.

If Roger wants a full year then it's a year. I mean the NFLPA can appeal it back to Roger I guess if they want to waste time.

This whole thing is a mess. NFLPA and Watson can sue the league, potentially getting a stay of the suspension and Deshaun starts Week 1.. although unlikely it is possible.

What I am hearing.. if it goes to the courts NFL and Watson/NFLPA lose control of the timing.. may not be decided until deep into the season.. with Watson & the league in limbo the whole way..

If I'm the Browns I am angling to get Watson & the NFL together to agree on a deal.. maybe 12 games and Watson loses some real money.. that way it's settled.. no uncertainty and forward we go..

If I'm Roger I'm suspending him for the year and for every negative word said about me I'm adding another game. Watson is already getting special treatment being a rich incredible athlete he doesn't get more.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by FL9er:
League is pushing for a year. This is going to get ugly, but we already knew it.

If Roger wants a full year then it's a year. I mean the NFLPA can appeal it back to Roger I guess if they want to waste time.

This whole thing is a mess. NFLPA and Watson can sue the league, potentially getting a stay of the suspension and Deshaun starts Week 1.. although unlikely it is possible.

What I am hearing.. if it goes to the courts NFL and Watson/NFLPA lose control of the timing.. may not be decided until deep into the season.. with Watson & the league in limbo the whole way..

If I'm the Browns I am angling to get Watson & the NFL together to agree on a deal.. maybe 12 games and Watson loses some real money.. that way it's settled.. no uncertainty and forward we go..

If I'm Roger I'm suspending him for the year and for every negative word said about me I'm adding another game. Watson is already getting special treatment being a rich incredible athlete he doesn't get more.

Yessir I am glad they are going for more. It's not up to Roger. Per CBA, it's up to the independent arbiter who was Judge Robinson.. now both sides have the ability to dispute the ruling.. NFL has done so pushing for more.. just sayin there is no telling how this ends up..

NFL pushing for indefinite suspension or year long and Watson would have be reinstated by the league.. My understanding is they offered 12 games and substantial Watson fine.. Watson declined.. big mistake.

Originally posted by JTB1974:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
This whole thing is a mess. NFLPA and Watson can sue the league, potentially getting a stay of the suspension and Deshaun starts Week 1.. although unlikely it is possible.

What I am hearing.. if it goes to the courts NFL and Watson/NFLPA lose control of the timing.. may not be decided until deep into the season.. with Watson & the league in limbo the whole way..

If I'm the Browns I am angling to get Watson & the NFL together to agree on a deal.. maybe 12 games and Watson loses some real money.. that way it's settled.. no uncertainty and forward we go..

The problem with only giving him 6 games is it sets a precedent for future offenses. I mean how can you ever in the future give a player more than a 6 game suspension unless they murder someone? For instance how could failing a wellness policy get you the same amount of games as what Watson did? Ridley got a year for betting on games that didn't even involve his team.

Yes I agree 6 games is light most ppl feel this way.. if I'm the team I want clarity.. they can get it if they make a deal with the league for more games and more dollars..

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by FL9er:
League is pushing for a year. This is going to get ugly, but we already knew it.

If Roger wants a full year then it's a year. I mean the NFLPA can appeal it back to Roger I guess if they want to waste time.

This whole thing is a mess. NFLPA and Watson can sue the league, potentially getting a stay of the suspension and Deshaun starts Week 1.. although unlikely it is possible.

What I am hearing.. if it goes to the courts NFL and Watson/NFLPA lose control of the timing.. may not be decided until deep into the season.. with Watson & the league in limbo the whole way..

If I'm the Browns I am angling to get Watson & the NFL together to agree on a deal.. maybe 12 games and Watson loses some real money.. that way it's settled.. no uncertainty and forward we go..

If I'm Roger I'm suspending him for the year and for every negative word said about me I'm adding another game. Watson is already getting special treatment being a rich incredible athlete he doesn't get more.

Yessir I am glad they are going for more. It's not up to Roger. Per CBA, it's up to the independent arbiter who was Judge Robinson.. now both sides have the ability to dispute the ruling.. NFL has done so pushing for more.. just sayin there is no telling how this ends up..

NFL pushing for indefinite suspension or year long and Watson would have be reinstated by the league.. My understanding is they offered 12 games and substantial Watson fine.. Watson declined.. big mistake.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by FL9er:
League is pushing for a year. This is going to get ugly, but we already knew it.

If Roger wants a full year then it's a year. I mean the NFLPA can appeal it back to Roger I guess if they want to waste time.

This whole thing is a mess. NFLPA and Watson can sue the league, potentially getting a stay of the suspension and Deshaun starts Week 1.. although unlikely it is possible.

What I am hearing.. if it goes to the courts NFL and Watson/NFLPA lose control of the timing.. may not be decided until deep into the season.. with Watson & the league in limbo the whole way..

If I'm the Browns I am angling to get Watson & the NFL together to agree on a deal.. maybe 12 games and Watson loses some real money.. that way it's settled.. no uncertainty and forward we go..

If I'm Roger I'm suspending him for the year and for every negative word said about me I'm adding another game. Watson is already getting special treatment being a rich incredible athlete he doesn't get more.

Yessir I am glad they are going for more. It's not up to Roger. Per CBA, it's up to the independent arbiter who was Judge Robinson.. now both sides have the ability to dispute the ruling.. NFL has done so pushing for more.. just sayin there is no telling how this ends up..

NFL pushing for indefinite suspension or year long and Watson would have be reinstated by the league.. My understanding is they offered 12 games and substantial Watson fine.. Watson declined.. big mistake.

While Roger Goodell, who is not an attorney, retains the ability to exercise final say over a possible Deshaun Watson punishment, the new conduct policy means the initial decision will be made by a neutral person--retired federal judge Sue Robinson, who is also an ex-prosecutor. https://t.co/FB0Ss49baJ

— Michael McCann (@McCannSportsLaw) March 30, 2022

You are correct however, there is a reason they mention Goodell as not an attorney.

A sterner stance by Goodell also raises the possibility that the NFLPA, which strongly urged the NFL to accept Robinson's ruling, could take legal action in federal court, a step that would extend the matter beyond the start of the new season, and possibly much further.

It is likely that if Goodell does increase punishment.. Watson and/or NFLPA will sue. They will argue that Judge Robinson has much better legal credentials / impartiality than the commish. It would go to court and be out of everyone's hands (Goodell, Watson, Browns, NFLPA, etc.). That's the direction I feel this may be headed.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You are correct however, there is a reason they mention Goodell as not an attorney.

A sterner stance by Goodell also raises the possibility that the NFLPA, which strongly urged the NFL to accept Robinson's ruling, could take legal action in federal court, a step that would extend the matter beyond the start of the new season, and possibly much further.

It is likely that if Goodell does increase punishment.. Watson and/or NFLPA will sue. They will argue that Judge Robinson has much better legal credentials / impartiality than the commish. It would go to court and be out of everyone's hands (Goodell, Watson, Browns, NFLPA, etc.). That's the direction I feel this may be headed.

Problem is the MOU says Goddell and his handpicked guy are the final word. NFLPA bargained that as the procedure.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You are correct however, there is a reason they mention Goodell as not an attorney.

A sterner stance by Goodell also raises the possibility that the NFLPA, which strongly urged the NFL to accept Robinson's ruling, could take legal action in federal court, a step that would extend the matter beyond the start of the new season, and possibly much further.

It is likely that if Goodell does increase punishment.. Watson and/or NFLPA will sue. They will argue that Judge Robinson has much better legal credentials / impartiality than the commish. It would go to court and be out of everyone's hands (Goodell, Watson, Browns, NFLPA, etc.). That's the direction I feel this may be headed.

Problem is the MOU says Goddell and his handpicked guy are the final word. NFLPA bargained that as the procedure.

I see that. Seems just so dumb that NFLPA would sign on to give up all control to the NFL. How is that any different than it was before? I've seen a lot of sources saying that if Goodell does increase the suspension.. there will be a lawsuit. I'm not much of a legal expert so I can't claim I know how this all will play out. Sure CBA is a binding agreement.. but you have disputes over contracts and agreements all the time..

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You are correct however, there is a reason they mention Goodell as not an attorney.

A sterner stance by Goodell also raises the possibility that the NFLPA, which strongly urged the NFL to accept Robinson's ruling, could take legal action in federal court, a step that would extend the matter beyond the start of the new season, and possibly much further.

It is likely that if Goodell does increase punishment.. Watson and/or NFLPA will sue. They will argue that Judge Robinson has much better legal credentials / impartiality than the commish. It would go to court and be out of everyone's hands (Goodell, Watson, Browns, NFLPA, etc.). That's the direction I feel this may be headed.

It would go to court and would get thrown out because the CBA clearly defines Goodell's power to adjust any discipline handed out as he sees fit. if the judge hadn't found against Watson then per the CBA, the NFL would have had no recourse, but she did and more or less threw one down the middle of the plate for Goodell to swing at. The NFLPA will no doubt sue, the NFL will file a motion for summary judgment, citing the CBA that the NFLPA itself agreed to, and it will end there.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I see that. Seems just so dumb that NFLPA would sign on to give up all control to the NFL. How is that any different than it was before? I've seen a lot of sources saying that if Goodell does increase the suspension.. there will be a lawsuit. I'm not much of a legal expert so I can't claim I know how this all will play out. Sure CBA is a binding agreement.. but you have disputes over contracts and agreements all the time..

The difference is that there's now a neutral party that determines whether any discipline is necessary. The NFL can only appeal if that neutral party determines that a preponderance of evidence supports guilt.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I see that. Seems just so dumb that NFLPA would sign on to give up all control to the NFL. How is that any different than it was before? I've seen a lot of sources saying that if Goodell does increase the suspension.. there will be a lawsuit. I'm not much of a legal expert so I can't claim I know how this all will play out. Sure CBA is a binding agreement.. but you have disputes over contracts and agreements all the time..

The difference is that there's now a neutral party that determines whether any discipline is necessary. The NFL can only appeal if that neutral party determines that a preponderance of evidence supports guilt.

Ah, so if Robinson said no suspension.. Watson would be in the free and clear.. and nothing Roger could do about it?

Edit: good points.. I still think there's is a legit chance NFLPA / Watson challenge and win or force a NFL compromise/settlement.. this is a new system and not much precedent here for how things may go.. especially if he drastically differs from the recommended suspension..