Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
If Fields or Lance is the pic I fully expect Kyle to design plays for them to be prolific in this offense day 1. You might have to dumb down the playbook but with how well players like Herbert and Burrow played their rookie season I fully disagree starting them is "throwing away the season".
If RG3 can take his team to the playoffs in year one so can both of them.
We went to the Super Bowl without throwing passes in multiple playoff games but a rookie QB with all the physical talent in the world can't replicate a decent season from Jimmy G? I don't see the logic there at all.
Rg3 started because Washington had no other option at qb. Same thing for Burrow and Herbert. There were no better options. Here there is no need to throw a rookie qb in the fire.
Jimmy seems to be well liked in the locker room. Again several players came back on one year deals because they felt they could compete for a super bowl. Almost all of them have thrown their support at Jimmy. Your not selling the locker room that a rookie is getting them to the super bowl imo. The team's defense played lights out in the playoffs and the running game was terrific during those couple playoff wins where they didn't really have to pass the ball . You can't expect that to be completely sustainable over the whole season in the toughest division in football. Jimmy also won quite a few games in the 4th quarter that season.
I don't see any logic in cutting Jimmy lose this season. We don't need the cap space. He's coming off another injury plagued season. What can you realistically expect to get for him right now? There is literally no reason to let Jimmy go. If you keep him around and he has a great season you get a better return for him next year. Your rookie gets to spend a year being brought along slowly ala Mahomes. I see no benefit in letting Jimmy go now and from listening to the team they don't either unless someone throws them a stupid trade offer which why would anyone offer anything substantial for him right now?
There's so much I disagree with here I don't really know where to begin.
1. I'm not a cap expert but I've been told that getting rid of Jimmy this year frees up more cap space a year from now and the year after that as opposed to keeping him this coming season. So I think there is a benefit to getting rid of him now from that standpoint considering all the players we resigned to one-year deals that we could potentially keep the following season if we traded Jimmy now.
2. You talked about maximizing Jimmy's value but last time I checked he got injured last season and 3 seasons ago. So IMO there's just as good of a chance that we keep Jimmy and he gets hurt and now he's untradable. At least right now he's "healthy" and teams could make decisions during the draft to pass on a rookie and sign Jimmy (just like the Jets did with Sam Darnold).
3. Our players didn't sign one-year deals because they only believe in Jimmy. They signed here because of Kyle Shanahan and the reduced league-wide salary cap. It makes sense for players to sign one-year deals to the team they are familiar with and had success with so they can maximize their value for the next offseason.
4. There is no way either of us can assume that the rookie could not play at Jimmy's level considering how average Jimmy was even when he was healthy. That first game against the Cardinals was awful. So you're saying there is no possible way Fields or Lance could play better than that? If Jimmy was Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford with very solid seasons in his past I would agree with you that it's very unlikely for the rookie to give us a better chance to win. That's just simply not the case with Jimmy. He has not had that pedigree to where we can trust him to play at a near pro bowl level.
I think the benefit of keeping Jimmy would be mainly for the career progression of Fields, Lance, or whoever we take at 3. I'm not saying I don't want Jimmy on the team but to suggest there is no reason to get rid of him now is false. And to suggest that our team wouldn't like or believe in a rookie that Kyle Shanahan hand-picked to be our franchise QB for the next decade and to assume he can't produce a season like Jimmy's "best" is insane to me.
I think it's clear we will have to agree to disagree rather than take this in circles.
Jimmy very well could get injured this year but that's projecting. We have an opportunity to build better value by keeping him and considering we have traded away so many high picks over the next couple of years the better return we can get for him the better it is for the team. Getting rid of Jimmy will also free up more space next year than it will this year.
And yes I understand that part of the reason the players signed one year deals was because of the reduced salary cap. I also know basically the entire secondary said they all kept in touch during the process and decided to return so they could give it another go together. Their own words.
Jimmy is more valuable to this team right now than trading him. Nobody is trading us anything substantial for him when he's been hurt 2 out of the last 3 seasons. He's shown when healthy that he's capable of playing at a solid level in this system and leading this team to wins. We stand more to let him stick around this year and see if we can maximize his value. Jimmy knows his time is limited here. At this point he's playing for his own future. This will be the first time he's had to play with a fire this size under his butt. Let's see what a highly motivated Jimmy looks like.
Also I'm not saying a rookie can't win us some games. I'm saying why throw them into a situation where they have to? Kyle's offense is already known as a tough offense to learn. It's already been stated that the league hasn't decided on what the off-season will look like as far as how much will be hands on and how much will be virtual based. Your setting a rookie up by throwing them into that fire when you don't have to. There is nothing wrong with taking the Mahomes route. Let the rookie take some time to absorb the playbook. Let them take a year to get coached up and keep the veteran qb in who already knows the playbook. There's no reason to water the playbook down for a rookie when we don't have too.
I never said the team wouldn't believe in the new qb. I said good luck convincing them that's the best thing for the immediate future. Everybody knows the reigns will soon be passed to Kyle's handpicked qb. When that time comes the team I'm sure will rally around that qb. That's then though. The guys on the team still want to win THIS year though and they know already that they can win with Jimmy. If you believe a rookie qb has a chance to lead us to a super bowl this year good for you. I'm sorry man I just don't. Whens the last time you saw a rookie qb do that? Again we play in the toughest division in football. That needs to be kept in mind. Also once again with so much unknown about the off-season programs I think our future qb is best served sitting a year on the sideline.
Like I said, It looks like we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject.
[ Edited by Willisfn4life on Apr 8, 2021 at 7:44 PM ]
