Arden Key, DL

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Let me ask you all a question: who do you think is most likely to have been the culprit behind the trade Buck idea? Was it JL…or was it a guy with green eyeshades that said, "Hey kyle and john…,look, if we trade Buck , we can get a #14 pick in draft , a starter DL, AND SAVE $4mil/yr."

who was most likely the numbskull that proposed that, and then when he got some blowback , maybe enlisted a York family member to throw in his 2 cents? I do not believe kyle nor john were the ones who did this. Obviously no proof, but paraag is the money guy, and something i really worry about is ,
"Does kyle have the final say …or does paraag, the money man and obvious champion of the moneyball b.s.?"

Think on that and then point fingers. It just doesn't figure that JL, a HOFer, who knows D talent (Despite REuben the woman beater who tricked us all, catastrophe), would have come up with a dumb azz suggestion like trading Buck. Besides, john is big on character and leadership, so trading Buck just doesn't figure to be the guilty idiot here. Paraag? You bet. Again, my worry is he has the final final say in all talent selected. If that's the case we are dutifully screwed. I hope i am wrong, but all signs point to the money man. He's hell on wheels with contracts, but i hope he does NOT have final say in talent selection, be it draft, trades, FAs.

It would be really nice and good for overall team morale, if the Yorks actually posted that paraag has NO influence in talent selection.

Jed York might be a putz, but he isn't cheap. I don't think anyone was telling them to save money on it. I think they figured Armstead + Ward for the same money as just Buckner was a better way to fill out the defense. They just totally forgot that Armstead was a contract year wonder taking advantage of being surrounded by Bosa, Ford, and Buckner. They also totally misjudged how much of an important leader he was to the team. Staley talked about thinking Buckner was going to be the guy to take his spot as the overall team captain.

Just a massive oversight by Lynch and his support team trying to get cute by moving parts around. Drafting Kinlaw wasn't the problem, it was keeping Armstead. Signing Buck and drafting Kinlaw to replace Armstead would've made way more sense.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Let me ask you all a question: who do you think is most likely to have been the culprit behind the trade Buck idea? Was it JL…or was it a guy with green eyeshades that said, "Hey kyle and john…,look, if we trade Buck , we can get a #14 pick in draft , a starter DL, AND SAVE $4mil/yr."

who was most likely the numbskull that proposed that, and then when he got some blowback , maybe enlisted a York family member to throw in his 2 cents? I do not believe kyle nor john were the ones who did this. Obviously no proof, but paraag is the money guy, and something i really worry about is ,
"Does kyle have the final say …or does paraag, the money man and obvious champion of the moneyball b.s.?"

Think on that and then point fingers. It just doesn't figure that JL, a HOFer, who knows D talent (Despite REuben the woman beater who tricked us all, catastrophe), would have come up with a dumb azz suggestion like trading Buck. Besides, john is big on character and leadership, so trading Buck just doesn't figure to be the guilty idiot here. Paraag? You bet. Again, my worry is he has the final final say in all talent selected. If that's the case we are dutifully screwed. I hope i am wrong, but all signs point to the money man. He's hell on wheels with contracts, but i hope he does NOT have final say in talent selection, be it draft, trades, FAs.

It would be really nice and good for overall team morale, if the Yorks actually posted that paraag has NO influence in talent selection.

Jed York might be a putz, but he isn't cheap. I don't think anyone was telling them to save money on it. I think they figured Armstead + Ward for the same money as just Buckner was a better way to fill out the defense. They just totally forgot that Armstead was a contract year wonder taking advantage of being surrounded by Bosa, Ford, and Buckner. They also totally misjudged how much of an important leader he was to the team. Staley talked about thinking Buckner was going to be the guy to take his spot as the overall team captain.

Just a massive oversight by Lynch and his support team trying to get cute by moving parts around. Drafting Kinlaw wasn't the problem, it was keeping Armstead. Signing Buck and drafting Kinlaw to replace Armstead would've made way more sense.

Unfortunately, the sad part here is that neither of us KNOWS for sure…and man would i ever like to know for sure. So i guess we wait until somebody spills the beans. Meantime i still got paraag pegged as the guilty one…and believe me, i wish i didn't think that because that kind of organizational setup would doom this team into eternity….or until paraag retired. Don't think that is in the offing anytime soon, either.

Kris Koucerek showing he still has it

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
Kris Koucerek showing he still has it

I wonder if the Javon Kinlaw injury ends up being a blessing in disguise for us for this season. No doubt, Kinlaw's impact in the run defense is sorely missed, but he hasn't given the team anything as a pass rusher. With Kinlaw out, an interior spot opened up on pass-rush downs, and it allowed Kocurek to get creative with his personnel groupings and move Arden Key inside. Let's hope he keeps balling out from that spot because we need the pass rush to get hot. 🔥🔥🔥

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by elguapo:
Key is doing a great job. Now just sack cousins and we're good to go

That would be such a key play if he got another and in a key game too!

I like what you did there. He may be a key factor in us beating Minn

Originally posted by billbird2111:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by miked1978:
Maybe just maybe it takes time to develop? Considering this is what his 4th year in the league. But hey just keep getting your hate on.

Time to develop? This is the first time in his entire football career he's played inside.

In fact, Demeco has been using him inside for about 4 games. He "developed" in 4 games.

He played well on the inside. I hope the 49ers keep him there.

I've seen Key get close to the QB from the outside too. But he's done his damage, so far, on the inside. I've seen one play where Jordan Willis/Arden Key do the tackle end twist and flushed out the QB into Bosa.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by elguapo:
Key is doing a great job. Now just sack cousins and we're good to go

That would be such a key play if he got another and in a key game too!

I like what you did there. He may be a key factor in us beating Minn

Key has shown some promise, I think he has a good game against Minny.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Unfortunately, the sad part here is that neither of us KNOWS for sure…and man would i ever like to know for sure. So i guess we wait until somebody spills the beans. Meantime i still got paraag pegged as the guilty one…and believe me, i wish i didn't think that because that kind of organizational setup would doom this team into eternity….or until paraag retired. Don't think that is in the offing anytime soon, either.

We've spent tons of money on Kittle, Warner, Trent Williams, Garoppolo, Armstead, etc. It makes no sense to suspect that being cheap was the reason we didn't extend Buckner. Paraag being the diabolical puppet master is such a 2014 rumor. Hes a brilliant finance guy who has worked our cap back into health. Baalke was the problem back then, not Paraag.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Unfortunately, the sad part here is that neither of us KNOWS for sure…and man would i ever like to know for sure. So i guess we wait until somebody spills the beans. Meantime i still got paraag pegged as the guilty one…and believe me, i wish i didn't think that because that kind of organizational setup would doom this team into eternity….or until paraag retired. Don't think that is in the offing anytime soon, either.

We've spent tons of money on Kittle, Warner, Trent Williams, Garoppolo, Armstead, etc. It makes no sense to suspect that being cheap was the reason we didn't extend Buckner. Paraag being the diabolical puppet master is such a 2014 rumor. Hes a brilliant finance guy who has worked our cap back into health. Baalke was the problem back then, not Paraag.

99, i sure hope you are right and i am wrong, because if not , then we are screwed. It isn't that i want to be right. Quite the opposite. But the way this went down, it just doesn't seem like an astute football move…and it wasn't, and that's where the $$$man comes in. FO could put all this to bed with a single one liner stating paraag only does contracts and has no say in who we draft, resign, FA or trade for. I don't expect to see that document …ever. So it will just remain…unknown.

Been a nice surprise and as one person said Kinlaw's injury may be a blessing in disguise. Hope he can up this production. If he does prove to be effective this bodes well for the future. Get Hyder back for cheap. Might need to move on from Armstead. He isn't terrible. But Bosa is back and better than ever and Armstead is meh. I'm hoping we can have the other dominant force emerge because the complimentary players like Jones and potentially Key and Willis can give us a game wrecking dline again.

Originally posted by Niners99:
Jed York might be a putz, but he isn't cheap. I don't think anyone was telling them to save money on it. I think they figured Armstead + Ward for the same money as just Buckner was a better way to fill out the defense. They just totally forgot that Armstead was a contract year wonder taking advantage of being surrounded by Bosa, Ford, and Buckner. They also totally misjudged how much of an important leader he was to the team. Staley talked about thinking Buckner was going to be the guy to take his spot as the overall team captain.

Just a massive oversight by Lynch and his support team trying to get cute by moving parts around. Drafting Kinlaw wasn't the problem, it was keeping Armstead. Signing Buck and drafting Kinlaw to replace Armstead would've made way more sense.

I agree with your point that Lynch tends to get too cute sometimes and thinks he can outsmart others, but I think the biggest problem was drafting the same position. It makes it extremely hard for Kinlaw to succeed because all of the pressure, even if he was healthy. It would have been better to draft OT and perhaps sign a veteran like N. Suh (he was free agent that year).

At the same time I also think there were other circumstances that we were not aware of that led to the trade. For example, Buck wanted a lot cash upfront and AA took a lot less money the first two years of the contract.

Originally posted by 25213646:

Originally posted by Niners99:
Jed York might be a putz, but he isn't cheap. I don't think anyone was telling them to save money on it. I think they figured Armstead + Ward for the same money as just Buckner was a better way to fill out the defense. They just totally forgot that Armstead was a contract year wonder taking advantage of being surrounded by Bosa, Ford, and Buckner. They also totally misjudged how much of an important leader he was to the team. Staley talked about thinking Buckner was going to be the guy to take his spot as the overall team captain.

Just a massive oversight by Lynch and his support team trying to get cute by moving parts around. Drafting Kinlaw wasn't the problem, it was keeping Armstead. Signing Buck and drafting Kinlaw to replace Armstead would've made way more sense.

I agree with your point that Lynch tends to get too cute sometimes and thinks he can outsmart others, but I think the biggest problem was drafting the same position. It makes it extremely hard for Kinlaw to succeed because all of the pressure, even if he was healthy. It would have been better to draft OT and perhaps sign a veteran like N. Suh (he was free agent that year).

At the same time I also think there were other circumstances that we were not aware of that led to the trade. For example, Buck wanted a lot cash upfront and AA took a lot less money the first two years of the contract.

This was a lot of it IMO. I'm no AB, but even just looking at this year, DeFo cap hit 4.5 mil more than AA and the team has 3.5 mil in cap space. Numbers weren't working BUT had they known Jimmy was going to be replaced with a rookie QB deal.....I think they could have worked deals to keep DeFo and Ward while letting AA walk and resigning the same guys. Now a lot depends on what they do with the Jimmy cap money assuming he's gone and if Kinlaw comes back strong.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Been a nice surprise and as one person said Kinlaw's injury may be a blessing in disguise. Hope he can up this production. If he does prove to be effective this bodes well for the future. Get Hyder back for cheap. Might need to move on from Armstead. He isn't terrible. But Bosa is back and better than ever and Armstead is meh. I'm hoping we can have the other dominant force emerge because the complimentary players like Jones and potentially Key and Willis can give us a game wrecking dline again.

Don't need to get Hyder back for cheap, give Kocurek a couple of 5th rounders and I'm betting he could easily find another DJ Jones or a younger more talented Kerry Hyder.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Been a nice surprise and as one person said Kinlaw's injury may be a blessing in disguise. Hope he can up this production. If he does prove to be effective this bodes well for the future. Get Hyder back for cheap. Might need to move on from Armstead. He isn't terrible. But Bosa is back and better than ever and Armstead is meh. I'm hoping we can have the other dominant force emerge because the complimentary players like Jones and potentially Key and Willis can give us a game wrecking dline again.

Don't need to get Hyder back for cheap, give Kocurek a couple of 5th rounders and I'm betting he could easily find another DJ Jones or a younger more talented Kerry Hyder.

Probably right.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Been a nice surprise and as one person said Kinlaw's injury may be a blessing in disguise. Hope he can up this production. If he does prove to be effective this bodes well for the future. Get Hyder back for cheap. Might need to move on from Armstead. He isn't terrible. But Bosa is back and better than ever and Armstead is meh. I'm hoping we can have the other dominant force emerge because the complimentary players like Jones and potentially Key and Willis can give us a game wrecking dline again.

Don't need to get Hyder back for cheap, give Kocurek a couple of 5th rounders and I'm betting he could easily find another DJ Jones or a younger more talented Kerry Hyder.

Probably right.

How can you say Armstead is meh? Just because he doesn't make a ton of splash plays doesn't mean he's not playing great.

The guy can literally play every position on the line at a "better than most" level.