Arden Key, DL

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I think we could have a real nice interior next year on pass rush downs bringing AA, DJJ, Kinlaw, and Givens in waves.

I think we might draft an interior DL for insurance if we can't afford to keep Key.

Key can probably cash in this offseason, but if he gets on himself, sign another 1-year deal here, he could net a 10-sack season and get a huge deal next offseason.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Key can probably cash in this offseason, but if he gets on himself, sign another 1-year deal here, he could net a 10-sack season and get a huge deal next offseason.

This would be a good way to try and convince him to take another 1-year deal. It's kind of crazy, but I think double-digit sacks is feasible if they use him from day 1 in his rush role from inside. He could really fleece some team in free agency in 2023.

If Key is offered a good contract by a team that runs a 3-4 defense he might do pretty good as an OLB in that system.

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
If Key is offered a good contract by a team that runs a 3-4 defense he might do pretty good as an OLB in that system.

I mean that doesn't change anything about him sucking as an edge rusher.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
If Key is offered a good contract by a team that runs a 3-4 defense he might do pretty good as an OLB in that system.

I mean that doesn't change anything about him sucking as an edge rusher.

Exactly. Id lower Ebukam's cap number, lock up Jones longterm and try to get Key on a 1 or 2 year deal. Still in the prime of his career once 1 to 2 years are up and can likely cash in big time if he is sacking QBs at the rate he does. And by big, I mean bigger than what he'd get this offseason. Another season or two like this past one, even if part time and someone will think he can do more in an expanded role and will give him 20 million +.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
If Key is offered a good contract by a team that runs a 3-4 defense he might do pretty good as an OLB in that system.

I mean that doesn't change anything about him sucking as an edge rusher.

Yeah that might be the case in a 4-3 defense

However in a 3/4 given his skill-set he might actually Excel.

As we should all be able to determine by now a player can be good if put in the right system to perform well

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
If Key is offered a good contract by a team that runs a 3-4 defense he might do pretty good as an OLB in that system.

I mean that doesn't change anything about him sucking as an edge rusher.

Yeah that might be the case in a 4-3 defense

However in a 3/4 given his skill-set he might actually Excel.

As we should all be able to determine by now a player can be good if put in the right system to perform well

Wouldn't he have to play some coverage in a 3-4? And in the situations where he has to rush the passer, if it didn't work so well with him rushing the passer as a 4-3 end, what would him doing it from the OLB position be better?

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
Yeah that might be the case in a 4-3 defense

However in a 3/4 given his skill-set he might actually Excel.

As we should all be able to determine by now a player can be good if put in the right system to perform well

Can you elaborate? The only difference he'd experience in a 3-4 is rushing from a 2-point stance and having coverage responsibilities. Neither of those would benefit him as an edge rusher. He's still rushing in the C gap and going against a tackle.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Wouldn't he have to play some coverage in a 3-4? And in the situations where he has to rush the passer, if it didn't work so well with him rushing the passer as a 4-3 end, what would him doing it from the OLB position be better?

Yep. Not to mention that if you ask most edge rushers, they prefer to avoid rushing from a 2-point stance. It affects get off by dramatically reducing the explosiveness that can be generated out of their stance. Also, it impacts pad level and makes it harder to maintain a lower pad level.

As a pass rusher, it's hard to beat playing in an attacking upfield one-gap wide 9 with your hand in the dirt. Every scheme is downgrade after that. If you can't rush the passer in Kocurek's system, it's unlikely you're going to have success rushing the QB elsewhere.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
If Key is offered a good contract by a team that runs a 3-4 defense he might do pretty good as an OLB in that system.

I mean that doesn't change anything about him sucking as an edge rusher.

Yeah that might be the case in a 4-3 defense

However in a 3/4 given his skill-set he might actually Excel.

As we should all be able to determine by now a player can be good if put in the right system to perform well

Wouldn't he have to play some coverage in a 3-4? And in the situations where he has to rush the passer, if it didn't work so well with him rushing the passer as a 4-3 end, what would him doing it from the OLB position be better?

Yes

He would have to play some coverage but his talent is obviously rushing the passer

Keep in mind the the skill-set needed to rush the passer a 4-3 defense differ from that in a 3/4 albeit slightly the skill set is still different

Kerry Hyder can only play in a wide 9 defense and Excel

However in a 4-3 over under defense he disappears

Either way I just want to see him get a chance to start in a defense that's better Suited for his talent

Just offseason speculation

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
Yeah that might be the case in a 4-3 defense

However in a 3/4 given his skill-set he might actually Excel.

As we should all be able to determine by now a player can be good if put in the right system to perform well

Can you elaborate? The only difference he'd experience in a 3-4 is rushing from a 2-point stance and having coverage responsibilities. Neither of those would benefit him as an edge rusher. He's still rushing in the C gap and going against a tackle.

YYou are correct

I just imagine he would want to start and since he doesn't seem to do well in a 4-3 defense I figure outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense might suit him better given his skill-set and finesse pass-rush ability as opposed to bulrush which is more suited for the wide-nine.

I could be way off on this but he put up some good stats and is only poised to do better and he might end up getting paid as a starter by another team just hopefully any system that best suits his abilities.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Wouldn't he have to play some coverage in a 3-4? And in the situations where he has to rush the passer, if it didn't work so well with him rushing the passer as a 4-3 end, what would him doing it from the OLB position be better?

Yep. Not to mention that if you ask most edge rushers, they prefer to avoid rushing from a 2-point stance. It affects get off by dramatically reducing the explosiveness that can be generated out of their stance. Also, it impacts pad level and makes it harder to maintain a lower pad level.

As a pass rusher, it's hard to beat playing in an attacking upfield one-gap wide 9 with your hand in the dirt. Every scheme is downgrade after that. If you can't rush the passer in Kocurek's system, it's unlikely you're going to have success rushing the QB elsewhere.

Yes sir

I I don't doubt The credibility of your statement because it sounds very true just want Arden key to get a chance to start in a system that best compliment his strengths and Excel in that system

Just off season speculation

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Wouldn't he have to play some coverage in a 3-4? And in the situations where he has to rush the passer, if it didn't work so well with him rushing the passer as a 4-3 end, what would him doing it from the OLB position be better?

Yep. Not to mention that if you ask most edge rushers, they prefer to avoid rushing from a 2-point stance. It affects get off by dramatically reducing the explosiveness that can be generated out of their stance. Also, it impacts pad level and makes it harder to maintain a lower pad level.

As a pass rusher, it's hard to beat playing in an attacking upfield one-gap wide 9 with your hand in the dirt. Every scheme is downgrade after that. If you can't rush the passer in Kocurek's system, it's unlikely you're going to have success rushing the QB elsewhere.

Yes sir

I I don't doubt The credibility of your statement because it sounds very true just want Arden key to get a chance to start in a system that best compliment his strengths and Excel in that system

Just off season speculation

I think it's in his future. Probably would still be wise to wait a year and get another of high quality year under his belt. Then go to a similar system where he can start.

One year on the team plus another off season with Kocurek, I can't wait to see how much Key and Ebukam improve.

Originally posted by pillageDatazz:
One year on the team plus another off season with Kocurek, I can't wait to see how much Key and Ebukam improve.

Don't be surprised if a team, say the Dolphins with a particular HC with familiarity of Key and a boatload of FA money comes calling and we decline to get into a bidding war. Obviously I hope he stays, signs another 1-year deal, has another good year and cashed in big time. But he may see the $$ elsewhere this offseason and bolt.