Maurice Hurst DT

Originally posted by SFrush:
Yeah that's false. He actually wasn't that far behind Chase Young in QB pressures before he missed the last 3 games.

That's more of an indictment of the class than a ringing endorsement. Chase Young didn't light the league on fire. He had about 25 pressures when Kinlaw sat out. For comparison, Nick Bosa had more than double that at that point. Not to mention double the sacks, triple the QB hits and double the TFLs. Let that sink in. Saying he was behind Chase Young isn't saying much.

Kinlaw was incredibly underwhelming. He was consistently stonewalled and pushed around by guys he should be abusing. He plays too damn high, has no idea how to use his hands, and is in the infancy of learning how to apply a pass-rush plan. All those tools and no idea how to apply them. How underwhelming was Kinlaw? Well, on the only full sack he was awarded in 2020, he was absolutely stonewalled and rag-dolled by the left guard. To Kinlaw's credit, he kept working even after the guard had ripped his ass down to the turf and given up on the play. The dude has a loooooooong way to go. Mo Hurst is a better player at this point. Hell, I hate to say it, but he was outplayed by backup UDFA Kevin Givens at many points last season.

The only thing this clip shows is how sick of an athlete Kinlaw is for managing to maintain balance after getting ripped to the turf and how hot his motor runs. But it's nothing to glamorize. It's too damn easy to get inside his framework. Kinlaw with passive hands that just float around and do nothing. That swipe wouldn't bust a grape. Kinlaw needs to strike with bad intentions and get the guard's hands off him the same way the guard chops his left arm. No plan for that guard punking him with his punch and controlling him like he's driving a F150. Playing too damn high. All that size and strength only to be negated by poor lad level. If that guard doesn't give up on the play, Kinlaw doesn't finish the season with a full sack. He better step it up because cheapies like this one aren't sustainable.

^ Hero dropping that knowledge. 100% accurate as always when it comes to defensive linemen

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SFrush:
Yeah that's false. He actually wasn't that far behind Chase Young in QB pressures before he missed the last 3 games.

That's more of an indictment of the class than a ringing endorsement. Chase Young didn't light the league on fire. He had about 25 pressures when Kinlaw sat out. For comparison, Nick Bosa had more than double that at that point. Not to mention double the sacks, triple the QB hits and double the TFLs. Let that sink in. Saying he was behind Chase Young isn't saying much.

Kinlaw was incredibly underwhelming. He was consistently stonewalled and pushed around by guys he should be abusing. He plays too damn high, has no idea how to use his hands, and is in the infancy of learning how to apply a pass-rush plan. All those tools and no idea how to apply them. How underwhelming was Kinlaw? Well, on the only full sack he was awarded in 2020, he was absolutely stonewalled and rag-dolled by the left guard. To Kinlaw's credit, he kept working even after the guard had ripped his ass down to the turf and given up on the play. The dude has a loooooooong way to go. Mo Hurst is a better player at this point. Hell, I hate to say it, but he was outplayed by backup UDFA Kevin Givens at many points last season.

The only thing this clip shows is how sick of an athlete Kinlaw is for managing to maintain balance after getting ripped to the turf and how hot his motor runs. But it's nothing to glamorize. It's too damn easy to get inside his framework. Kinlaw with passive hands that just float around and do nothing. That swipe wouldn't bust a grape. Kinlaw needs to strike with bad intentions and get the guard's hands off him the same way the guard chops his left arm. No plan for that guard punking him with his punch and controlling him like he's driving a F150. Playing too damn high. All that size and strength only to be negated by poor lad level. If that guard doesn't give up on the play, Kinlaw doesn't finish the season with a full sack. He better step it up because cheapies like this one aren't sustainable.

Imagine sleeping on #49ers Javon Kinlaw 😯 pic.twitter.com/6PTkhmyXRN

— 𝙏𝙝𝙚𝙎𝙁𝙉𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙧𝙨 (@Thesfniners_) March 22, 2021

Hero, with respect Kinlaw was drafted and thanks to Covid was dumped straight into the NFL with very little preparation or coaching and no preseasons. What is missing from his game is coaching and this year will in my opinion show the difference.

Okay niners... cut the crap signing DT's like crazy niners trade javon kinlaw and a 2022 third round pick to the Falcons for Julio Jones. The Falcons then cut Grady Jarrett to further relieve their cap situation niners get some cap space by trading kinlaw and Falcons come out of cap hell and can sign their draft picks.... see that was easy lol

Originally posted by swaccmac1:
Okay niners... cut the crap signing DT's like crazy niners trade javon kinlaw and a 2022 third round pick to the Falcons for Julio Jones. The Falcons then cut Grady Jarrett to further relieve their cap situation niners get some cap space by trading kinlaw and Falcons come out of cap hell and can sign their draft picks.... see that was easy lol

You're assuming that the Falcons would want this "underwhelming tackle" and a 3rd round pick in exchange for Jones. I doubt they would take that. Kinlaw is a $3.5 million cap hit this season That wouldn't be enough to take on Jones who has a $15 million cap number. They still need to sign Lance and they always need to have a little left over in case players get injured and they have to sign replacements. They also will need to address Fred warner's contract.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by swaccmac1:
Okay niners... cut the crap signing DT's like crazy niners trade javon kinlaw and a 2022 third round pick to the Falcons for Julio Jones. The Falcons then cut Grady Jarrett to further relieve their cap situation niners get some cap space by trading kinlaw and Falcons come out of cap hell and can sign their draft picks.... see that was easy lol

You're assuming that the Falcons would want this "underwhelming tackle" and a 3rd round pick in exchange for Jones. I doubt they would take that. Kinlaw is a $3.5 million cap hit this season That wouldn't be enough to take on Jones who has a $15 million cap number. They still need to sign Lance and they always need to have a little left over in case players get injured and they have to sign replacements. They also will need to address Fred warner's contract.

Come on catchmaster live a little lol I wasn't saying kinlaw's salary would offset Jones's. Just that it would help ease the financial gymnastics that the niners would have to create to make the trade work. Oh well .... right now it's just pie in the sky. Go niners

Originally posted by 49ers808:
^ Hero dropping that knowledge. 100% accurate as always when it comes to defensive linemen

Hero loves himself guys with technical skills because you know they know what they're doing.

We all know Kinlaw was raw and full of potential. I haven't seen anything from him yet to make me think he's too lazy or doesn't care enough not to make the climb to elite level.

But proof will be in how he plays. No question if the body and talent meet with technique we're gonna have ourselves one of the best DTs in the game right now.

Originally posted by swaccmac1:
Come on catchmaster live a little lol I wasn't saying kinlaw's salary would offset Jones's. Just that it would help ease the financial gymnastics that the niners would have to create to make the trade work. Oh well .... right now it's just pie in the sky. Go niners

Sorry I guess i misread your comment. Anyway we agree that jones is probably not likely to land here. We would need to give up a couple of 2nd rounders or a player and a second rounder and I don't see that happening. They might be able to clear enough cap space by reworking some contracts but it would be tight. The real question is what is Atlanta going to want in a trade. Teams know they're up against the wall with their cap but the Falcons aren't going to let him go for nothing.

Originally posted by English:
Hero, with respect Kinlaw was drafted and thanks to Covid was dumped straight into the NFL with very little preparation or coaching and no preseasons. What is missing from his game is coaching and this year will in my opinion show the difference.

Oh, for sure. The unusual year definitely didn't do him any favors, especially considering how raw he was coming out. No way am I throwing in the towel on Kinlaw after one season. That would be silly.

But at the same time, I'm not going to pretend he had some great rookie season season. We gotta be honest with ourselves. He's got a lot of work to do.

Kinlaw flashed last year. Rookie DTs rarely make an impact, so this season should be a good indicator of how he'll manage as a pro.

The DL was a mess last year without a notable DE. Having Bosa back and paired with either Ford, Ebukam, or Key will be a massive help inside. Adding Hurst, who's shown that he can penetrate will only further help Kinlaw.

The Dline is looking good (on paper) at this point and I'd expect Hurst and Kinlaw to play well and spend some time in the backfield pressuring QBs.

Edit: And to add to this, having 2 athletic DTs is going to be very important in our division with Murray and Wilson. If the edges can create scramble plays we'll need some athletic bodies on the interior that can pursue the QB.

Originally posted by strickac:
Kinlaw flashed last year. Rookie DTs rarely make an impact, so this season should be a good indicator of how he'll manage as a pro.

The DL was a mess last year without a notable DE. Having Bosa back and paired with either Ford, Ebukam, or Key will be a massive help inside. Adding Hurst, who's shown that he can penetrate will only further help Kinlaw.

The Dline is looking good (on paper) at this point and I'd expect Hurst and Kinlaw to play well and spend some time in the backfield pressuring QBs.

Edit: And to add to this, having 2 athletic DTs is going to be very important in our division with Murray and Wilson. If the edges can create scramble plays we'll need some athletic bodies on the interior that can pursue the QB.

Hurst and Kinlaw both have interceptions, pretty cool that these two guys can play in the secondary too.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SFrush:
Yeah that's false. He actually wasn't that far behind Chase Young in QB pressures before he missed the last 3 games.

That's more of an indictment of the class than a ringing endorsement. Chase Young didn't light the league on fire. He had about 25 pressures when Kinlaw sat out. For comparison, Nick Bosa had more than double that at that point. Not to mention double the sacks, triple the QB hits and double the TFLs. Let that sink in. Saying he was behind Chase Young isn't saying much.

Kinlaw was incredibly underwhelming. He was consistently stonewalled and pushed around by guys he should be abusing. He plays too damn high, has no idea how to use his hands, and is in the infancy of learning how to apply a pass-rush plan. All those tools and no idea how to apply them. How underwhelming was Kinlaw? Well, on the only full sack he was awarded in 2020, he was absolutely stonewalled and rag-dolled by the left guard. To Kinlaw's credit, he kept working even after the guard had ripped his ass down to the turf and given up on the play. The dude has a loooooooong way to go. Mo Hurst is a better player at this point. Hell, I hate to say it, but he was outplayed by backup UDFA Kevin Givens at many points last season.

The only thing this clip shows is how sick of an athlete Kinlaw is for managing to maintain balance after getting ripped to the turf and how hot his motor runs. But it's nothing to glamorize. It's too damn easy to get inside his framework. Kinlaw with passive hands that just float around and do nothing. That swipe wouldn't bust a grape. Kinlaw needs to strike with bad intentions and get the guard's hands off him the same way the guard chops his left arm. No plan for that guard punking him with his punch and controlling him like he's driving a F150. Playing too damn high. All that size and strength only to be negated by poor lad level. If that guard doesn't give up on the play, Kinlaw doesn't finish the season with a full sack. He better step it up because cheapies like this one aren't sustainable.

Imagine sleeping on #49ers Javon Kinlaw 😯 pic.twitter.com/6PTkhmyXRN

— 𝙏𝙝𝙚𝙎𝙁𝙉𝙞𝙣𝙚𝙧𝙨 (@Thesfniners_) March 22, 2021

What a surprise. You overreacting as usual. This is just like you calling Greenlaw a liability in coverage after the first preseason game of his professional career against Dallas and then he goes onto outplay Kwon Alexander his rookie season.

Off the top of my head I can think of 4-5 plays where Kinlaw was a split second away from getting a sack. Heck the very first game he nearly had a sack on Murray in the endzone after beating Sweezy but Murray threw the ball away. He also should have had one against Philly but Wentz slipped out of it.

[tweet

But yeah these clips totally show he has no idea what to do with his hands.

The only solid point you made is pad level. That I can get onboard with even though a 6'5 DT is always going more issues there than a 6 foot guy like Givens.

I posted both of those clips in the Kinlaw thread. I give credit when it's due. Those clips are examples of plays that were few and far between during the season. The mark of good play is consistency, and the only consistency to Kinlaw's game last season was him getting his ass handed to him throughout the season.

Here's me on September 14 defending Kinlaw. I don't play these emotional, butthurt games people tend to do. I keep it 100.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Umm, what? That second play isn't "bad." It's neither good nor bad. In fact, this happened in the first quarter, and he ADJUSTED to it in the second quarter. The guard is a two-handed high puncher; Kinlaw adjusts the timing of counter club and reduces his surface area as he crosses his face.

If anything, that "bad" play is strong evidence that he's processing things upstairs.

The ugly play is what it is. He's a rookie, got high and paid for it against two Ol. He'll learn.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I posted both of those clips in the Kinlaw thread. I give credit when it's due. Those clips are examples of plays that were few and far between during the season. The only consistency to Kinlaw's game was him getting his ass handed to him throughout the season.

and you would be wrong.

Originally posted by SFrush:
and you would be wrong.

Facts are facts. Here's me on September 14 defending Kinlaw. I don't play these emotional, butthurt games people tend to do. Play good and you get props; play bad and you get called out. The mark of good play is consistency. I try to keep it 100 with every player.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Umm, what? That second play isn't "bad." It's neither good nor bad. In fact, this happened in the first quarter, and he ADJUSTED to it in the second quarter. The guard is a two-handed high puncher; Kinlaw adjusts the timing of counter club and reduces his surface area as he crosses his face.

If anything, that "bad" play is strong evidence that he's processing things upstairs.

The ugly play is what it is. He's a rookie, got high and paid for it against two Ol. He'll learn.