Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Sorry but he needs to f**king play. Way too much given up with how little he's played

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by RasSuar:
Daily math reminder:

11 on 11 offensive football > 10 on 11 offensive football.

And when we unlock this with Trey the league will be

On some of our plays this will be true. However, it wasn't like Shanahan wasn't already designing plays to do this in other ways. There's more than 1 way to do this, you don't have to have just a running QB.
We'll do it with a QB rollout off a wide zone - we've seen these passes where the QB will look to turn and rollout and that DE is sitting there waiting. The play may not go anywhere or may even be a negative, but it's showing that we are able to leave the backside DE unblocked as he's occupied by the rollout of the QB when we do run a wide zone - that's 11v11 without a running QB.

We've also run a bunch of zone reads with Jimmy in there and I've seen it more times than I can count where a DE or DT is frozen by Jimmy G on the fake. There's also blocking assignments where we'll use formations to make it so we don't have to block one guy on the field because he can't get in on the play. It doesn't always have to be 11v11, you can do things to make it 10v10 or 9v9.

I'm not saying that 11v11 with a running qb isn't an advantage - don't get me wrong. But I think we also need to understand that that part alone isn't going to be this unstoppable force. IF he can throw the ball like an elite player AND add that running ability, you'll see the offense explode. If he's a pretty good runner and a decent QB, then it's not quite going to be the crazy take off people are expecting. He's go to be very, very good at one and at least pretty darn good at the other.

This is completely true Jonny, and back to your normal level of posting IMO.

I think Trey is already an elite runner for a QB, I only have Lamar ahead if he's going to use his strength, if we're looking at being safe and not taking any contact he's below Kyler and maybe Fields.

We've discussed the pocket play ad nauseam, I know he'll keep working on this, not sure when it'll be at a level we're happy with, but I bet that it's this year.

On a side note I think that you should want Trey to get in sooner, I think it'll add another dimension to your You Tube stuff.

As far as YT, that's secondary to my concern than winning. I'd rather us win a SB than have new and different stuff to talk about.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by RasSuar:
Daily math reminder:

11 on 11 offensive football > 10 on 11 offensive football.

And when we unlock this with Trey the league will be

On some of our plays this will be true. However, it wasn't like Shanahan wasn't already designing plays to do this in other ways. There's more than 1 way to do this, you don't have to have just a running QB.
We'll do it with a QB rollout off a wide zone - we've seen these passes where the QB will look to turn and rollout and that DE is sitting there waiting. The play may not go anywhere or may even be a negative, but it's showing that we are able to leave the backside DE unblocked as he's occupied by the rollout of the QB when we do run a wide zone - that's 11v11 without a running QB.

We've also run a bunch of zone reads with Jimmy in there and I've seen it more times than I can count where a DE or DT is frozen by Jimmy G on the fake. There's also blocking assignments where we'll use formations to make it so we don't have to block one guy on the field because he can't get in on the play. It doesn't always have to be 11v11, you can do things to make it 10v10 or 9v9.

I'm not saying that 11v11 with a running qb isn't an advantage - don't get me wrong. But I think we also need to understand that that part alone isn't going to be this unstoppable force. IF he can throw the ball like an elite player AND add that running ability, you'll see the offense explode. If he's a pretty good runner and a decent QB, then it's not quite going to be the crazy take off people are expecting. He's go to be very, very good at one and at least pretty darn good at the other.

This is completely true Jonny, and back to your normal level of posting IMO.

I think Trey is already an elite runner for a QB, I only have Lamar ahead if he's going to use his strength, if we're looking at being safe and not taking any contact he's below Kyler and maybe Fields.

We've discussed the pocket play ad nauseam, I know he'll keep working on this, not sure when it'll be at a level we're happy with, but I bet that it's this year.

On a side note I think that you should want Trey to get in sooner, I think it'll add another dimension to your You Tube stuff.

I think that's selling Trey a little high but I hope it turns out to be true. We haven't really seen him use his legs but I'd be surprised if he's a better runner than Murray, Wilson or even Justin Fields who all appear to be smoother runners. I know you have it noted if he used his strength but that's not what you want to see from the QB(look at Cam and how fast he declined from his top performance)

But his running is definitely a strength so soon as he masters the passing element he's going to be a terrific QB, much like Wilson who went from "keep him in the pocket and make him throw" game plan for defenses to "I hope he hands the ball off"

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by RasSuar:
Daily math reminder:

11 on 11 offensive football > 10 on 11 offensive football.

And when we unlock this with Trey the league will be

On some of our plays this will be true. However, it wasn't like Shanahan wasn't already designing plays to do this in other ways. There's more than 1 way to do this, you don't have to have just a running QB.
We'll do it with a QB rollout off a wide zone - we've seen these passes where the QB will look to turn and rollout and that DE is sitting there waiting. The play may not go anywhere or may even be a negative, but it's showing that we are able to leave the backside DE unblocked as he's occupied by the rollout of the QB when we do run a wide zone - that's 11v11 without a running QB.

We've also run a bunch of zone reads with Jimmy in there and I've seen it more times than I can count where a DE or DT is frozen by Jimmy G on the fake. There's also blocking assignments where we'll use formations to make it so we don't have to block one guy on the field because he can't get in on the play. It doesn't always have to be 11v11, you can do things to make it 10v10 or 9v9.

I'm not saying that 11v11 with a running qb isn't an advantage - don't get me wrong. But I think we also need to understand that that part alone isn't going to be this unstoppable force. IF he can throw the ball like an elite player AND add that running ability, you'll see the offense explode. If he's a pretty good runner and a decent QB, then it's not quite going to be the crazy take off people are expecting. He's go to be very, very good at one and at least pretty darn good at the other.

This is completely true Jonny, and back to your normal level of posting IMO.

I think Trey is already an elite runner for a QB, I only have Lamar ahead if he's going to use his strength, if we're looking at being safe and not taking any contact he's below Kyler and maybe Fields.

We've discussed the pocket play ad nauseam, I know he'll keep working on this, not sure when it'll be at a level we're happy with, but I bet that it's this year.

On a side note I think that you should want Trey to get in sooner, I think it'll add another dimension to your You Tube stuff.

Based on what? His clips from college against Division II caliber competition? In spite of what some of you may think I don't have any issues with Lance. I hope he is everything the team imagined he would be when they drafted him. I just think that Jimmy's greater experience playing the game at an NFL level should give him the edge as a starter for a team that wants to win now. What I do have an issue with is people assigning all of these "elite' characteristics to Lance when he has yet to even take a snap in an NFL game that matters. "Oh, he already reads defenses better than Jimmy", and we know this how? "Oh, he would have made that pass that Jimmy missed", again something that is completely unproveable in any world outside of statistical probability, which means it possesses a certain degree of possibility not that it is an actual fact. "Trey is already an elite runner for a QB" , based on what, a handful of pre-season snaps. Or the couple of runs he had through gaping holes in the defense. Lance may indeed prove that all of these things are true, but as of the moment he hasn't actually proved any of them are so why do people keep on presenting them as some kind of unassailable facts. It really is a head scratcher. I get the feeling that people keep saying these things because they want them to be true and not because they have been proven to be so in any sort of empirical sense.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
We need some redemption after this incident:

Russell Wilson ended up with a beautiful, sane, talented Sista and Kap ended up with Aldon Smith's crazy and racist sloppy seconds. That's the difference. Russell was comfortable being corny as hell while Kap had to prove to the world that he was still black.

I bought into this hype. I thought we had Montana and Marino pt 2 in the NFC West. But it wasn't meant to be. Kap wanted to be a civil rights hero more than he wanted to be a great QB. Jim Brown was both, but he was a great player before he fought the good fight.

Originally posted by D0PEMAN:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
twins

that looks much closer, sorry dude

Haha gotta love screenshots

You can make the most attractive women look incredibly ugly if you pause at the right moments of facial expressions. Using still pics of QB's mid throw and trying to say they're identical mechanics is totally idiotic.

Hahaha

Originally posted by socal1632:
Sorry but he needs to f**king play. Way too much given up with how little he's played

There is a difference in "just f**king play" and getting reps so he can develop and grow.

I think what Kyle is going to do is a great approach even if people b***h about the whole 2 QB thing. It lets Trey get into games, grow and get game reps without throwing everything on his shoulders.

We have a SB level roster. Guys like Lawrence and Wilson have nothing to worry about in terms of expectations. Even Mac Jones doesn't have huge expectations simply because of how crappy Cam played last year.

Even Justin Fields isn't in the same situation. Chicago is a mid level playoff contender, only got in cuz we beat Arizona last year. Plus they're desperate for QB worth anything and Andy Dalton really has no attachment to that team. Garoppolo at least is highly respected by the players on this roster even if some fans think he's ass.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by RasSuar:
Daily math reminder:

11 on 11 offensive football > 10 on 11 offensive football.

And when we unlock this with Trey the league will be

On some of our plays this will be true. However, it wasn't like Shanahan wasn't already designing plays to do this in other ways. There's more than 1 way to do this, you don't have to have just a running QB.
We'll do it with a QB rollout off a wide zone - we've seen these passes where the QB will look to turn and rollout and that DE is sitting there waiting. The play may not go anywhere or may even be a negative, but it's showing that we are able to leave the backside DE unblocked as he's occupied by the rollout of the QB when we do run a wide zone - that's 11v11 without a running QB.

We've also run a bunch of zone reads with Jimmy in there and I've seen it more times than I can count where a DE or DT is frozen by Jimmy G on the fake. There's also blocking assignments where we'll use formations to make it so we don't have to block one guy on the field because he can't get in on the play. It doesn't always have to be 11v11, you can do things to make it 10v10 or 9v9.

I'm not saying that 11v11 with a running qb isn't an advantage - don't get me wrong. But I think we also need to understand that that part alone isn't going to be this unstoppable force. IF he can throw the ball like an elite player AND add that running ability, you'll see the offense explode. If he's a pretty good runner and a decent QB, then it's not quite going to be the crazy take off people are expecting. He's go to be very, very good at one and at least pretty darn good at the other.

This is completely true Jonny, and back to your normal level of posting IMO.

I think Trey is already an elite runner for a QB, I only have Lamar ahead if he's going to use his strength, if we're looking at being safe and not taking any contact he's below Kyler and maybe Fields.

We've discussed the pocket play ad nauseam, I know he'll keep working on this, not sure when it'll be at a level we're happy with, but I bet that it's this year.

On a side note I think that you should want Trey to get in sooner, I think it'll add another dimension to your You Tube stuff.

Based on what? His clips from college against Division II caliber competition? In spite of what some of you may think I don't have any issues with Lance. I hope he is everything the team imagined he would be when they drafted him. I just think that Jimmy's greater experience playing the game at an NFL level should give him the edge as a starter for a team that wants to win now. What I do have an issue with is people assigning all of these "elite' characteristics to Lance when he has yet to even take a snap in an NFL game that matters. "Oh, he already reads defenses better than Jimmy", and we know this how? "Oh, he would have made that pass that Jimmy missed", again something that is completely unproveable in any world outside of statistical probability, which means it possesses a certain degree of possibility not that it is an actual fact. "Trey is already an elite runner for a QB" , based on what, a handful of pre-season snaps. Or the couple of runs he had through gaping holes in the defense. Lance may indeed prove that all of these things are true, but as of the moment he hasn't actually proved any of them are so why do people keep on presenting them as some kind of unassailable facts. It really is a head scratcher.

First, I didn't bring up Jimmy, it's not about Jimmy, I didn't even touch on the passing element.

I watched every single running and passing snap Lance took from college. Yes he played at a lower level of competition but the running ability jumps off the screen, he's balanced, can juke and has been clocked over 21 mph.

Granted he won't be trucking NFL LB's like he did in college, but you can just see how physically imposing he is. I don't want him to lower the shoulder, but he's clearly capable, would be happy with him using left handed stiff arms though.

There's nothing at all head scratching in my take.

It doesn't really matter if he's the 2nd best running QB in the league or the 10th anyway, he's clearly someone a DC will have to account for, and that's enough when discussing him as a runner.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Why you so focused on his package?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
We need some redemption after this incident:

Russell Wilson ended up with a beautiful, sane, talented Sista and Kap ended up with Aldon Smith's crazy and racist sloppy seconds. That's the difference. Russell was comfortable being corny as hell while Kap had to prove to the world that he was still black.

I bought into this hype. I thought we had Montana and Marino pt 2 in the NFC West. But it wasn't meant to be. Kap wanted to be a civil rights hero more than he wanted to be a great QB. Jim Brown was both, but he was a great player before he fought the good fight.

Um, I think you missed the point of my post. Look at the picture. Look closer. Look closlier. Look more closlier.

Trey is a very talented runner, much more talented running with the football than passing it... I look forward to watching Shanny's Trey-cat packages this year, how the packages evolve week to week and all the counters he adds to them

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Why you so focused on his package?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
We need some redemption after this incident:

Russell Wilson ended up with a beautiful, sane, talented Sista and Kap ended up with Aldon Smith's crazy and racist sloppy seconds. That's the difference. Russell was comfortable being corny as hell while Kap had to prove to the world that he was still black.

I bought into this hype. I thought we had Montana and Marino pt 2 in the NFC West. But it wasn't meant to be. Kap wanted to be a civil rights hero more than he wanted to be a great QB. Jim Brown was both, but he was a great player before he fought the good fight.

Um, I think you missed the point of my post. Look at the picture. Look closer. Look closlier. Look more closlier.

It's not exactly a secret that Russ stuffs his pants though

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Why you so focused on his package?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
We need some redemption after this incident:

Russell Wilson ended up with a beautiful, sane, talented Sista and Kap ended up with Aldon Smith's crazy and racist sloppy seconds. That's the difference. Russell was comfortable being corny as hell while Kap had to prove to the world that he was still black.

I bought into this hype. I thought we had Montana and Marino pt 2 in the NFC West. But it wasn't meant to be. Kap wanted to be a civil rights hero more than he wanted to be a great QB. Jim Brown was both, but he was a great player before he fought the good fight.

Um, I think you missed the point of my post. Look at the picture. Look closer. Look closlier. Look more closlier.

It's not exactly a secret that Russ stuffs his pants though

As for Kap, I think it was that all his protein was going to his abs. None left for other... portions.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by mitpdub:
Anyone have stats on his completion percentage in college ? In this preseason it's not too good, but his explosive plays were great.

i was reading that Allen with the Bills upped his completion rate over 12% in year 2. I'm hoping that with proper coaching if this is an issue with Lance he gets better over time.

Finally was able to update my catchable ball (accuracy) chart with Mac Jones' data. I compared them to my database of 89 QBs and color-coded the results into quartiles. Green is top-25%, yellow 26-50%, orange is 51-75%, red is bottom 25%. Impressive numbers sans Lance (1/?) pic.twitter.com/Rz4ubm02GC

— Ian Wharton (@NFLFilmStudy) April 14, 2021

That chart hurts. Thanks for posting !

I hear it's hard to drastically improve accuracy in the pros. It's why Mac Jones was wanted because of his accuracy, even though he can't throw the deep ball.

i don't think completion percentage is overrated because it moves the chains and provides more opportunities. Montana and Young and most top QBs were known for accuracy first.

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Why you so focused on his package?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
We need some redemption after this incident:

Russell Wilson ended up with a beautiful, sane, talented Sista and Kap ended up with Aldon Smith's crazy and racist sloppy seconds. That's the difference. Russell was comfortable being corny as hell while Kap had to prove to the world that he was still black.

I bought into this hype. I thought we had Montana and Marino pt 2 in the NFC West. But it wasn't meant to be. Kap wanted to be a civil rights hero more than he wanted to be a great QB. Jim Brown was both, but he was a great player before he fought the good fight.

Um, I think you missed the point of my post. Look at the picture. Look closer. Look closlier. Look more closlier.

It's not exactly a secret that Russ stuffs his pants though

He does have huge hands though.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by RasSuar:
Daily math reminder:

11 on 11 offensive football > 10 on 11 offensive football.

And when we unlock this with Trey the league will be

On some of our plays this will be true. However, it wasn't like Shanahan wasn't already designing plays to do this in other ways. There's more than 1 way to do this, you don't have to have just a running QB.
We'll do it with a QB rollout off a wide zone - we've seen these passes where the QB will look to turn and rollout and that DE is sitting there waiting. The play may not go anywhere or may even be a negative, but it's showing that we are able to leave the backside DE unblocked as he's occupied by the rollout of the QB when we do run a wide zone - that's 11v11 without a running QB.

We've also run a bunch of zone reads with Jimmy in there and I've seen it more times than I can count where a DE or DT is frozen by Jimmy G on the fake. There's also blocking assignments where we'll use formations to make it so we don't have to block one guy on the field because he can't get in on the play. It doesn't always have to be 11v11, you can do things to make it 10v10 or 9v9.

I'm not saying that 11v11 with a running qb isn't an advantage - don't get me wrong. But I think we also need to understand that that part alone isn't going to be this unstoppable force. IF he can throw the ball like an elite player AND add that running ability, you'll see the offense explode. If he's a pretty good runner and a decent QB, then it's not quite going to be the crazy take off people are expecting. He's go to be very, very good at one and at least pretty darn good at the other.

This is completely true Jonny, and back to your normal level of posting IMO.

I think Trey is already an elite runner for a QB, I only have Lamar ahead if he's going to use his strength, if we're looking at being safe and not taking any contact he's below Kyler and maybe Fields.

We've discussed the pocket play ad nauseam, I know he'll keep working on this, not sure when it'll be at a level we're happy with, but I bet that it's this year.

On a side note I think that you should want Trey to get in sooner, I think it'll add another dimension to your You Tube stuff.

Based on what? His clips from college against Division II caliber competition? In spite of what some of you may think I don't have any issues with Lance. I hope he is everything the team imagined he would be when they drafted him. I just think that Jimmy's greater experience playing the game at an NFL level should give him the edge as a starter for a team that wants to win now. What I do have an issue with is people assigning all of these "elite' characteristics to Lance when he has yet to even take a snap in an NFL game that matters. "Oh, he already reads defenses better than Jimmy", and we know this how? "Oh, he would have made that pass that Jimmy missed", again something that is completely unproveable in any world outside of statistical probability, which means it possesses a certain degree of possibility not that it is an actual fact. "Trey is already an elite runner for a QB" , based on what, a handful of pre-season snaps. Or the couple of runs he had through gaping holes in the defense. Lance may indeed prove that all of these things are true, but as of the moment he hasn't actually proved any of them are so why do people keep on presenting them as some kind of unassailable facts. It really is a head scratcher.

First, I didn't bring up Jimmy, it's not about Jimmy, I didn't even touch on the passing element.

I watched every single running and passing snap Lance took from college. Yes he played at a lower level of competition but the running ability jumps off the screen, he's balanced, can juke and has been clocked over 21 mph.

Granted he won't be trucking NFL LB's like he did in college, but you can just see how physically imposing he is. I don't want him to lower the shoulder, but he's clearly capable, would be happy with him using left handed stiff arms though.

There's nothing at all head scratching in my take.

It doesn't really matter if he's the 2nd best running QB in the league or the 10th anyway, he's clearly someone a DC will have to account for, and that's enough when discussing him as a runner.

Sorry, I just don't see how you can say that Lance is already an elite runner for a QB when he has yet to even compete at a serious NFL level against NFL quality players, who are going to be bigger, faster and stronger than most of the guys he faced in college. The NFL landscape is littered with college QBs who people thought were going to tear up the league and ended up out on the street after just a few years. What these guys did in college hardly seems to matter any more beyond how their best traits are able to transfer to the NFL and for that it seems to me that you have to see them play in games that count against opponents who don't have their best interests at heart and probably don't care about their press clippings. Like I said, I hope Lance is great. He just needs the opportunity to show he can be before I anoint him with all of the super human qualities that some posters already seem to have assigned to him. As to the Jimmy reference that was just a general observation and had nothing to do with your post. No need to get your panties in a twist.