Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
No, start him now even though he's not even close to being ready, risk the season even though they're 2 and 0, upset the locker room, so they can develop this linebacker posing as a qb with the slim hope they didn't completely botch the pick.

Lol and no one said that….it's like people don't read and make up s**t to argue about in here

SHanahan has been consistent at least. Play the guy who gives the team the best chance to win, despite the draft position ie not Aiyuk and sermon.

He will play trey when/if he feels he gives the team the best chance to win.

If there will be a game where try should be playing a substantial amount, it's this packers game.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
This is pretty meaningless because most first round QBs are drafted by s**t teams that either have no other option at QB or the rookie is their best option. Or they're simply desperate for some sort of excitement boost from throwing a rookie to the wolves.

None of which applies to the 49ers who are in the extraordinarily rare position of being able to sit a rookie QB because they have a pretty good veteran quarterback starting ahead of them and no need to satisfy an ADHD addled fanbase off its Ritalin.

Why do they have no other option? That's simply not true at all…again if sitting a rookie QB that you spent a lot for is the best chance for them to be successful no team would start them.

Starting a rookie just based on excitement is stupid. No coach is doing that, that's a weak argument for having 29-33 1st rd QBs starting at some point over the past 10 yrs….playing football makes players better. Doesn't mean it's a day 1 thing, just one the best way for a guy to develop.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
SHanahan has been consistent at least. Play the guy who gives the team the best chance to win, despite the draft position ie not Aiyuk and sermon.

He will play trey when/if he feels he gives the team the best chance to win.

If there will be a game where try should be playing a substantial amount, it's this packers game.

That's all fine and not my debate….people saying the best way to develop a QB is by putting him on the bench for a yr and I disagee with that.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You mean just develop him like most teams do with 1st rd picks by playing them?

With Justin Fields starting Sunday, 29 of 33 QBs taken in the first round in the last 10 draft cycles (2012-21) will have started inside their first 10 games as a pro. And if Trey Lance starts anytime soon, it'll be 30 of 33.

Redshirting a first-round QB rarely actually happens. pic.twitter.com/SeGUCyAX30

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) September 22, 2021

Again if the best way to get a QB to be successful was to not play them yr one then..They. Would. Not. Play. Them. Period.

This is pretty meaningless because most first round QBs are drafted by s**t teams that either have no other option at QB or the rookie is their best option. Or they're simply desperate for some sort of excitement boost from throwing a rookie to the wolves.

None of which applies to the 49ers who are in the extraordinarily rare position of being able to sit a rookie QB because they have a pretty good veteran quarterback starting ahead of them and no need to satisfy an ADHD addled fanbase off its Ritalin.

Just had to make it personal against me

From that list (excluding 2020 and 2021 drafts):

QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 17 (8 busts) 47% bust rate
QBs that sit at least their first season: 8 (4 busts) 50% bust rate
QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 39 (27 busts) 70% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 20 (11 busts) 55% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 27 (17 busts) 63% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 5 (1 bust) 20% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 7 (2 busts) 29% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that sit at least their first season: 2 (0 busts) 0% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that sit at least their first season: 3 (1 bust) 33% bust rate

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why do they have no other option? That's simply not true at all…again if sitting a rookie QB that you spent a lot for is the best chance for them to be successful no team would start them.

Starting a rookie just based on excitement is stupid. No coach is doing that, that's a weak argument for having 29-33 1st rd QBs starting at some point over the past 10 yrs….playing football makes players better. Doesn't mean it's a day 1 thing, just one the best way for a guy to develop.

I disagree that its "the best way for a QB to develop", teams do it more out of necessity than pragmatism. They NEED to play their rookie because their other QB's are trash or because their team is trash or some combination of all of the above. Teams generally are drafting QB's early in the first and they are drafting early in the first because they tend to be poorly managed teams with either a bad front office, bad coaching or all of the above. So you have already incompetent people making further bad decisions to take a young player, throw them out there and let them get destroyed just to keep their job status going a little while longer.

There's certainly no proven harm in sitting a QB and letting them fully learn the offense, study film and develop an appreciation for the preparation it takes to play at an NFL level without having all that pressure instantly put on them. Guys like Carson Palmer, Phillip Rivers and Mahomes weren't any worse for having sat behind veteran passers. Could they have started instantly, possibly. Were they better prepared to start after having spent a season sitting learning and absorbing the pro game, undoubtedly, and each has said as much.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
From that list (excluding 2020 and 2021 drafts):

QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 17 (8 busts) 47% bust rate
QBs that sit at least their first season: 8 (4 busts) 50% bust rate
QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 39 (27 busts) 70% bust rate

It's almost like it's a coin flip of a players good or not Irregardless

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
This is pretty meaningless because most first round QBs are drafted by s**t teams that either have no other option at QB or the rookie is their best option. Or they're simply desperate for some sort of excitement boost from throwing a rookie to the wolves.

None of which applies to the 49ers who are in the extraordinarily rare position of being able to sit a rookie QB because they have a pretty good veteran quarterback starting ahead of them and no need to satisfy an ADHD addled fanbase off its Ritalin.

Why do they have no other option? That's simply not true at all…again if sitting a rookie QB that you spent a lot for is the best chance for them to be successful no team would start them.

Starting a rookie just based on excitement is stupid. No coach is doing that, that's a weak argument for having 29-33 1st rd QBs starting at some point over the past 10 yrs….playing football makes players better. Doesn't mean it's a day 1 thing, just one the best way for a guy to develop.

Alright just looking at that list, the following QBs did not get better after starting early or within 10 games or whatever that ridiculous image is showing:

- Ramsey, Harrington, David Carr, Grossman, Boller, Losman, Campbell, Alex Smith (this one will be debated but he did not benefit from starting day 1), Leinart, Quinn, Russell, Freeman, Tebow, Ponder, Wheeden, Manuel, Manziel, Mariota (?), Winston (?), Lynch, Trubiski, Rosen, Darnold (good QB I think but didn't benefit being started day 1), Haskins, Jones, Tua (imo)

Originally posted by Silky:
Alright just looking at that list, the following QBs did not get better after starting early or within 10 games or whatever that ridiculous image is showing:

- Ramsey, Harrington, David Carr, Grossman, Boller, Losman, Campbell, Alex Smith (this one will be debated but he did not benefit from starting day 1), Leinart, Quinn, Russell, Freeman, Tebow, Ponder, Wheeden, Manuel, Manziel, Mariota (?), Winston (?), Lynch, Trubiski, Rosen, Darnold (good QB I think but didn't benefit being started day 1), Haskins, Jones, Tua (imo)

This list shows so many draft day wtf reaches that had most football fans questioning why GMs get payed. Like oh wow JP Losman ended up being a bust. If only anyone woulda been able to predict that.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I disagree that its "the best way for a QB to develop", teams do it more out of necessity than pragmatism. They NEED to play their rookie because their other QB's are trash or because their team is trash or some combination of all of the above. Teams generally are drafting QB's early in the first and they are drafting early in the first because they tend to be poorly managed teams with either a bad front office, bad coaching or all of the above. So you have already incompetent people making further bad decisions to take a young player, throw them out there and let them get destroyed just to keep their job status going a little while longer.

There's certainly no proven harm in sitting a QB and letting them fully learn the offense, study film and develop an appreciation for the preparation it takes to play at an NFL level without having all that pressure instantly put on them. Guys like Carson Palmer, Phillip Rivers and Mahomes weren't any worse for having sat behind veteran passers. Could they have started instantly, possibly. Were they better prepared to start after having spent a season sitting learning and absorbing the pro game, undoubtedly, and each has said as much.

Good I'm glad you agree that sitting a QB for a yr is the best way to develop a QB. That's my whole point.

playing is the best way to develop a player.

Originally posted by Silky:
Alright just looking at that list, the following QBs did not get better after starting early or within 10 games or whatever that ridiculous image is showing:

- Ramsey, Harrington, David Carr, Grossman, Boller, Losman, Campbell, Alex Smith (this one will be debated but he did not benefit from starting day 1), Leinart, Quinn, Russell, Freeman, Tebow, Ponder, Wheeden, Manuel, Manziel, Mariota (?), Winston (?), Lynch, Trubiski, Rosen, Darnold (good QB I think but didn't benefit being started day 1), Haskins, Jones, Tua (imo)

Because they suck to begin with…you think oif all those guys sat for a yr they'd be marginally better or great? I don't…they simple were overdraft, had s**tty coaching/rosters, dealt with injures or simple were never gonna be good.

sitting a player for a yr is not some recipe for success and not the best way to develop a player that actually needs to play football. Now that doesn't mean you need to start him day 1, but don't expect Lance to be some rock star in 2022 if he doesn't play at all this yr. there's a process and a big part of that is playing football & dealing with all the bumps in the road, it will happen this yr or next yr regardless.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I disagree that its "the best way for a QB to develop", teams do it more out of necessity than pragmatism. They NEED to play their rookie because their other QB's are trash or because their team is trash or some combination of all of the above. Teams generally are drafting QB's early in the first and they are drafting early in the first because they tend to be poorly managed teams with either a bad front office, bad coaching or all of the above. So you have already incompetent people making further bad decisions to take a young player, throw them out there and let them get destroyed just to keep their job status going a little while longer.

There's certainly no proven harm in sitting a QB and letting them fully learn the offense, study film and develop an appreciation for the preparation it takes to play at an NFL level without having all that pressure instantly put on them. Guys like Carson Palmer, Phillip Rivers and Mahomes weren't any worse for having sat behind veteran passers. Could they have started instantly, possibly. Were they better prepared to start after having spent a season sitting learning and absorbing the pro game, undoubtedly, and each has said as much.

Good I'm glad you agree that sitting a QB for a yr is the best way to develop a QB. That's my whole point.

playing is the best way to develop a player.

Sure, but that doesn't mean they need to play immediately.

Barring injury, the 49ers don't desperately need Lance to start this year. If he sits this year then mentally and fundamentals wise he'll be better prepared to start next year and likely better suited for long term success. Its the smart play and its what Bill Walsh advocated for, never putting more on a QB's plate than you have to, taking your time and being patient with them, especially avoiding putting them in a situation that could wreck their confidence.

There is zero pressing need for Lance to start this year and that is a good thing. The 49ers are in a great position having a good veteran passer and a promising rookie to sit, watch and learn behind him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I disagree that its "the best way for a QB to develop", teams do it more out of necessity than pragmatism. They NEED to play their rookie because their other QB's are trash or because their team is trash or some combination of all of the above. Teams generally are drafting QB's early in the first and they are drafting early in the first because they tend to be poorly managed teams with either a bad front office, bad coaching or all of the above. So you have already incompetent people making further bad decisions to take a young player, throw them out there and let them get destroyed just to keep their job status going a little while longer.

There's certainly no proven harm in sitting a QB and letting them fully learn the offense, study film and develop an appreciation for the preparation it takes to play at an NFL level without having all that pressure instantly put on them. Guys like Carson Palmer, Phillip Rivers and Mahomes weren't any worse for having sat behind veteran passers. Could they have started instantly, possibly. Were they better prepared to start after having spent a season sitting learning and absorbing the pro game, undoubtedly, and each has said as much.

Good I'm glad you agree that sitting a QB for a yr is the best way to develop a QB. That's my whole point.

playing is the best way to develop a player.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
From that list (excluding 2020 and 2021 drafts):

QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 17 (8 busts) 47% bust rate
QBs that sit at least their first season: 8 (4 busts) 50% bust rate
QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 39 (27 busts) 70% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 20 (11 busts) 55% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 27 (17 busts) 63% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 5 (1 bust) 20% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 7 (2 busts) 29% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that sit at least their first season: 2 (0 busts) 0% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that sit at least their first season: 3 (1 bust) 33% bust rate

Edited my list to separate Top 5 and Top 10 picks.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
From that list (excluding 2020 and 2021 drafts):

QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 17 (8 busts) 47% bust rate
QBs that sit at least their first season: 8 (4 busts) 50% bust rate
QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 39 (27 busts) 70% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 20 (11 busts) 55% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 27 (17 busts) 63% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 5 (1 bust) 20% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 7 (2 busts) 29% bust rate

Top 5 QBs that sit at least their first season: 2 (0 busts) 0% bust rate
Top 10 QBs that sit at least their first season: 3 (1 bust) 33% bust rate

Edited my list to separate Top 5 and Top 10 picks.

Math checks out sit him for the season