Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SoCold:
How many of those guys had to play because the starter was injured?

Your last comment assumes all QBs are the same and all situations are the same.
They are all different.

Every single rookie QB needs to be treated differently according to their situation.

It's simple dude, I'm told if the best way to get a QB to be successful was to not play yr 1 then every QB would sit the bench yr one. If that's the key for success like I'm being told then none would play. Regardless of injury, the goal is to make that highly touted rookie be successful, right?

I think you just type to hear yourself type.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Sure, but that doesn't mean they need to play immediately.

.

Never said he had to play immediately…I have no idea why people keep saying that. I said he's gonna have to play football to get better. At some point this yr he should be getting some sort of in the pocket series, not a couple ZRs imo and if not he will be damn near just as raw in 2022 all the same. Learning the playbook and watching coverages is great, but it's meaningless until you get to apply all that on the field.

Originally posted by SoCold:
I think you just type to hear yourself type.

Great convo. Glad we had it.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Never said he had to play immediately…I have no idea why people keep saying that. I said he's gonna have to play football to get better. At some point this yr he should be getting some sort of in the pocket series, not a couple ZRs imo and if not he will be damn near just as raw in 2022 all the same. Learning the playbook and watching coverages is great, but it's meaningless until you get to apply all that on the field.

And my point is that a season of sitting and watching along with practice means he'll be far better suited to apply what he's learned to the field. There's no downside to him not starting as a rookie and at least anecdotally, some real potential upside. Better familiarity with the offense, better knowledge of the playbook, having studied up for various opponents and learned their tendencies, watching how a veteran QB in Garoppolo handles his business week in and week out, more time spent on developing fundamentals before having to be thrown in front of aggressive NFL defenses.

He'll have an adjustment period no matter when he starts but the more time he sits, the easier that adjustment period will be for him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SoCold:
I think you just type to hear yourself type.

Great convo. Glad we had it.

You ignored what I posted. Just copied what you already typed multiple times. Then asked a question you already know the answer to. Good job.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
From that list (excluding 2020 and 2021 drafts):

QBs that don't play before their team's 10th game: 17 (8 busts) 47% bust rate
QBs that sit at least their first season: 8 (4 busts) 50% bust rate
QBs that play before their team's 10th game: 39 (27 busts) 70% bust rate

It's almost like it's a coin flip of a players good or not Irregardless

Right

Originally posted by SoCold:
You ignored what I posted. Just copied what you already typed multiple times. Then asked a question you already know the answer to. Good job.

And you missed the post of my post. Again great convo. Glad we had it.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
This is pretty meaningless because most first round QBs are drafted by s**t teams that either have no other option at QB or the rookie is their best option. Or they're simply desperate for some sort of excitement boost from throwing a rookie to the wolves.

None of which applies to the 49ers who are in the extraordinarily rare position of being able to sit a rookie QB because they have a pretty good veteran quarterback starting ahead of them and no need to satisfy an ADHD addled fanbase off its Ritalin.

Why do they have no other option? That's simply not true at all…again if sitting a rookie QB that you spent a lot for is the best chance for them to be successful no team would start them.

Starting a rookie just based on excitement is stupid. No coach is doing that, that's a weak argument for having 29-33 1st rd QBs starting at some point over the past 10 yrs….playing football makes players better. Doesn't mean it's a day 1 thing, just one the best way for a guy to develop.

It has more to do with pressure than anything else. Teams drafting in the top 10 are more likely to be less talented and have a new coaching staff and/or gm. The pressure to win now is higher than ever. Top 10 qb draft picks tend to get thrown to the wolves their rookie year and then take the brunt of the blame when they don't have the pieces around them to succeed. More times than not when their confidence goes, its gone forever. After 2-3 years the coach/gm that drafted the qb is gone and the qb either gets one more chance with the new coaching regime and having to learn a new system or they get traded/let go and the cycle repeats itself. Just look at the dolphins and jets for example.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Math checks out sit him for the season

Where's he getting zero bust for guys that don't play yr one? I'm confused by his numbers…Quinn didn't play, locker, JPP Losman, Pennington…I think it's actually better to look at guys that actually went into a great situation vs who started on a dumpster fire.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Math checks out sit him for the season

Where's he getting zero bust for guys that don't play yr one? I'm confused by his numbers…Quinn didn't play, locker, JPP Losman, Pennington…I think it's actually better to look at guys that actually went into a great situation vs who started on a dumpster fire.

Top 5 picks that dont play at all in year one I believe.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
It has more to do with pressure than anything else. Teams drafting in the top 10 are more likely to be less talented and have a new coaching staff and/or gm. The pressure to win now is higher than ever. Top 10 qb draft picks tend to get thrown to the wolves their rookie year and then take the brunt of the blame when they don't have the pieces around them to succeed. More times than not when their confidence goes, its gone forever. After 2-3 years the coach/gm that drafted the qb is gone and the qb either gets one more chance with the new coaching regime and having to learn a new system or they get traded/let go and the cycle repeats itself. Just look at the dolphins and jets for example.

Meh I feel like bad teams with bad rosters aren't expected to win…the coach of those teams are more than likely gonna be gone regardless of what that rookie QB does. They're part of the reason they they're drafting high to begin with.

teams with top end expensive rosters are the ones that have more pressure imo.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Top 5 picks that dont play at all in year one I believe.

So I'm seeing two, maybe I'm wrong there. Rivers who had Brees in front of him and Palmer?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Top 5 picks that dont play at all in year one I believe.

So I'm seeing two, maybe I'm wrong there. Rivers who had Brees in front of him and Palmer?

Correct.

I think a QB can learn a lot watching film and in practice. I said that about Jimmy when his fans kept saying he needs to play. They said it's not like game reps. Now I see people saying that Trey can learn on the bench but eventually he will need game reps. For him it's probably even more important than it was for Jimmy since Trey only played one season and didn't play last year because of Covid. When and how Kyle gets him those reps is something that will be dictated by how the season progresses. If the Niners keep winning and are in a lot of tight games it's going to be hard to get him in. If they get a couple of blowouts or start losing because of injuries then it will be easier. If Jimmy gets hurt then it's obvious.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Math checks out sit him for the season

Where's he getting zero bust for guys that don't play yr one? I'm confused by his numbers…Quinn didn't play, locker, JPP Losman, Pennington…I think it's actually better to look at guys that actually went into a great situation vs who started on a dumpster fire.

Top 5 picks that dont play at all in year one I believe.

Which is too small of a sample size to really infer anything from. There's no clear trend that QBs that sit have better careers or vice versa. The biggest external factor of whether a QB succeeds or not seems to be the quality of the team around them.

The question that should be asked is how starting vs sitting impacts the speed of development. Do QBs that start in year one and play well perform better in week one of year two than QBs that are making their first start ever in week one of year two?