Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by ritz126:
I dont htink thats the case but the bumps and lows will be a lot different than if he started this year imo

He will still have bumps early and if we were a rebuilding team i do see the benefit of him starting early but this isnt a rebuilding team this is a borderline/potential SB level team

Dude you know this fan base, if he doesn't come out and look like mahomes (who people keep referencing when it comes to red shirting their rookie yr) people will just say he sucks blah blah blah….imo if you have a great roster that's the perfect time to play a rookie QB with his skill set/upside. He doesn't have to know all the nuances and be relied on to win every game. He doesn't have to throw the ball 40x a game. Great running game and D with Kyle's play-calling. That should be enough to get Ws and help him develop into a complete QB as the yrs go.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CaseyJones49:
I think starting a 21 year old raw Alex Smith completely altered his career.

Do you think sitting him for a yr would have made him a totally different QB? I don't…he was part of a crap roster and crap coaching staff all the same. Crazy how much he got better as he actually played football and had a decent roster around him.

Nah see he "played football" for 7 years and was trash. He also started day 1 and was trash. He had poor coaches, OLine, talent and was trash. He didn't get better playing football. Alex honestly negates everyones argument. I think if he started year 2 or 3 he woulda been trash. Alex is an anomaly. He just got older, more mature, benefitted from a lockout because Harbaugh was about to move on from him, put his big boy pants on, received better coaching, received better talent, and started playing good football. Alex is a bad example for everyone's argument.

Originally posted by Silky:
Right but we go back to this circular argument. I'll play devil's advocate to my original post. Here are the QBs that did benefit from starting day 1. Actually a lot of them started way later:

- Pennington (41st game), Vick, Palmer (18th game), Big Ben, Rivers (33rd game), Eli, Rodgers (49th game), Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, Sanchez, Tannehill, Luck, RG3, Teddy, Wentz, Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Jackson, Allen, Baker, Murray, Herbert, Burrow (?)

So that's about 25 minus about 4 of them because they started year 2 and beyond. That's 21 QBs that benefitted from starting early. And 26 QBs that were trash from day 1. My point is, your point and my point can both be proven at once. You can't say definitively one way or the other that sitting vs starting right away is the correct choice. We should stop attacking each other over this specific point and just agree to disagree.

Vick started in his 8th game, Big Ben started in his 3rd game, eli 10th game…I'm not following that first paragraph.

also I don't know what you call successful vs trash. The bust rate for a 1st rd pick is over 50% and that's because of a lot of things. I would say having a guy not sit a yr is low on that.

I never said start right away, why do people continue to say that? I'm saying playing football is the best way to develop a football player. Not red shirting a yr.

I'm not attacking anyone…I'm debating my point, people continue to misinterpreted it and that's is pretty annoying.

but yes agree to disagree I guess

Originally posted by Silky:
Nah see he "played football" for 7 years and was trash. He also started day 1 and was trash. He had poor coaches, OLine, talent and was trash. He didn't get better playing football. Alex honestly negates everyones argument. I think if he started year 2 or 3 he woulda been trash. Alex is an anomaly. He just got older, more mature, benefitted from a lockout because Harbaugh was about to move on from him, put his big boy pants on, received better coaching, received better talent, and started playing good football. Alex is a bad example for everyone's argument.

Alex was hurt a lot (thus couldn't play and get those reps) and surrounded by bad players and coaches. Alex got better because he played more football and was it put in a position to succeed.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
Right but we go back to this circular argument. I'll play devil's advocate to my original post. Here are the QBs that did benefit from starting day 1. Actually a lot of them started way later:

- Pennington (41st game), Vick, Palmer (18th game), Big Ben, Rivers (33rd game), Eli, Rodgers (49th game), Flacco, Ryan, Stafford, Sanchez, Tannehill, Luck, RG3, Teddy, Wentz, Goff, Watson, Mahomes, Jackson, Allen, Baker, Murray, Herbert, Burrow (?)

So that's about 25 minus about 4 of them because they started year 2 and beyond. That's 21 QBs that benefitted from starting early. And 26 QBs that were trash from day 1. My point is, your point and my point can both be proven at once. You can't say definitively one way or the other that sitting vs starting right away is the correct choice. We should stop attacking each other over this specific point and just agree to disagree.

Vick started in his 8th game, Big Ben started in his 3rd game, eli 10th game…I'm not following that first paragraph.

also I don't know what you call successful vs trash. The bust rate for a 1st rd pick is over 50% and that's because of a lot of things. I would say having a guy not sit a yr is low on that.

I never said start right away, why do people continue to say that? I'm saying playing football is the best way to develop a football player. Not red shirting a yr.

I'm not attacking anyone…I'm debating my point, people continue to misinterpreted it and that's is pretty annoying.

but yes agree to disagree I guess

Yea I don't know i'm in the corporate mindset. Take my job for instance. I am in the cybersecurity world. My company would not let me do anything live for about 6 months until I learned my job completely. It's extrememly important work and data. I had to shadow my experience co-worker during that time. I could have absolutely dived right in and maybe do ok. I would have definitely had stumbles and screw ups. I would say I 100% benefitted from sitting and watching. That's just my opinion on the Lance topic

I think Trey will get a lot of snaps this week due to the condition of the RB room. Grap in all out pass mode is something I'm sure no one on our side wants. GB would be salivating at the mouth for that. A defense sitting on Jimmy's 5-10 yds passes would be horrible. Grap knows the offense but his accuracy 90% of the time is a little off......

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
Nah see he "played football" for 7 years and was trash. He also started day 1 and was trash. He had poor coaches, OLine, talent and was trash. He didn't get better playing football. Alex honestly negates everyones argument. I think if he started year 2 or 3 he woulda been trash. Alex is an anomaly. He just got older, more mature, benefitted from a lockout because Harbaugh was about to move on from him, put his big boy pants on, received better coaching, received better talent, and started playing good football. Alex is a bad example for everyone's argument.

Alex was hurt a lot (thus couldn't play and get those reps) and surrounded by bad players and coaches. Alex got better because he played more football and was it put in a position to succeed.

Sure he was hurt, but it took him 7 years to become a decent to good QB. We're not talking 3-4 years. He had some full seasons during those first 7 years. That's a lot of football

So

QBs drafted to good teams look good. While QBs drafted to s**tty teams look like s**t.

Playing time makes you better. Unless you're on that s**tty team getting your ass kicked and or injured.

Just be lucky enough to get drafted to a good team and catch a little playing time = championship!

We've cracked the code!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I wasn't trying to debate you on that subject. I was just stating both ends of the spectum. But since you decided to highlight that one sentence out of my entire post. If you believe the best way for a football player to develop is to actually play football than why weren't you an advocate of Trey starting day one?

Because we have a QB that knows the offense and can win games right now…and who's getting paid top money. This is separate from assuming sitting a rookie QB for a yr gives him his best chance to develop and be successful.

im fine with the way things are right now, but people thinking Lance is gonna come into 2022 ready to ball out because he held a clipboard for a yr, well you're gonna be disappointed. It's a process and part of that process is letting the kid play football to improve. This FO knew that when they drafted him and I hope fan's understand this.

FWIW I would like to see him get some meaningful snaps throughout the year, not a couple ZRs on 3rd in long or in the RZ…legit in the pocket series. He needs that.

Treyxcuses already.

Originally posted by SoCold:
So

QBs drafted to good teams look good. While QBs drafted to s**tty teams look like s**t.

Playing time makes you better. Unless you're on that s**tty team getting your ass kicked and or injured.

Just be lucky enough to get drafted to a good team and catch a little playing time = championship!

We've cracked the code!

Yea that's it. No one is wrong or right in this argument

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
If anyone knew the best way to develop QBs, we'd have far fewer busts. It is dependent on too many factors to say with any certainty which way is the best.

Well just looking at how numerous NFL teams have been with their 1st rd rookie QBs, it seems like they believe playing helps with development vs sitting.

we will see

To be fair, most of those teams don't have a better option. Who else are the Jets, Patriots, and Jags going to start? The Bears were going with Dalton until he got hurt so it looks like Fields will start.

Originally posted by Silky:
Yea I don't know i'm in the corporate mindset. Take my job for instance. I am in the cybersecurity world. My company would not let me do anything live for about 6 months until I learned my job completely. It's extrememly important work and data. I had to shadow my experience co-worker during that time. I could have absolutely dived right in and maybe do ok. I would have definitely had stumbles and screw ups. I would say I 100% benefitted from sitting and watching. That's just my opinion on the Lance topic

I get that, not every job is the same though…Sports IMO is massively different then other jobs.

if he's completely clueless with the playbook fine. I don't really think that's the case. Knowing where to go pre-snap in the film room isn't the same as doing it live. Players who sat all day what they learned by sitting was "how to prepare to be a pro" everything else is learned while you play the game with 21 other players on the field.

Originally posted by Silky:
Sure he was hurt, but it took him 7 years to become a decent to good QB. We're not talking 3-4 years. He had some full seasons during those first 7 years. That's a lot of football

And what do you think that would have greatly improved if he didn't play his first yr? I don't.

Originally posted by SoCold:
So

QBs drafted to good teams look good. While QBs drafted to s**tty teams look like s**t.

Playing time makes you better. Unless you're on that s**tty team getting your ass kicked and or injured.

Just be lucky enough to get drafted to a good team and catch a little playing time = championship!

We've cracked the code!

In a nutshell sure. the margin of error for a rookie on a bad team is by far smaller. Do you agree? Play time helps players, I don't think you're gonna find a football player that would disagree.

glad we cracked the code.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
If anyone knew the best way to develop QBs, we'd have far fewer busts. It is dependent on too many factors to say with any certainty which way is the best.

Well just looking at how numerous NFL teams have been with their 1st rd rookie QBs, it seems like they believe playing helps with development vs sitting.

we will see

To be fair, most of those teams don't have a better option. Who else are the Jets, Patriots, and Jags going to start? The Bears were going with Dalton until he got hurt so it looks like Fields will start.

Cam??

I can see it now.

" niners ruined trey by not playing him!" They sat him for a year and he didn't get any valuable playing time!"