Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by DAstateCal85:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
If a team isn't going to win more games by starting someone else, it is easy to decide to develop a guy by fire with the justification that he gives the team the best chance to win.

You mean just develop him like most teams do with 1st rd picks by playing them?

With Justin Fields starting Sunday, 29 of 33 QBs taken in the first round in the last 10 draft cycles (2012-21) will have started inside their first 10 games as a pro. And if Trey Lance starts anytime soon, it'll be 30 of 33.

Redshirting a first-round QB rarely actually happens. pic.twitter.com/SeGUCyAX30

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) September 22, 2021

Again if the best way to get a QB to be successful was to not play them yr one then..They. Would. Not. Play. Them. Period.

Care to post the win/loss on these players? I can 100% guarantee you they lost a lot more than they won. A majority of those are guys who bust. Also a majority of these guys were forced in to either injury or bad QB play... Outside of a few... they.did.not.start.the.season....

Why not?

Outside of a few? The previous 10 drafts (prior to this one), 9 of the 14 QBs who were drafted in the top 5 of a draft started week one. That's substantially more than "outside of a few."

Jake Locker is the only QB taken in the top 10 in the last 10 years to not be their team's starter by midway through their rookie season.

It is super rare for the rookie QBs taken at the top of the draft to not start at least some games as a rookie.

Well, to be fair, it's also not often that a qb drafted in the top 10 isn't on a team with a severe qb problem.

Ours was that we lost 2/3 of our last 3 seasons because he was on IR.

Like Joe Montana said, they traded for Steve because he(Joe) had just had a back injury and the 49ees had to protect the organization. So it makes perfect sense why they drafted Lance, to protect the organization.

That's Joe making that comparison, not me.

Agree. and Phoenix touched a bit on the issue of confidence, that I dont think was really addressed, in my opinion. When a QB reads a defense, he's essentially guessing and anticipating the coverages and what routes will be open or not. Yes a QB can learn a lot by playing versus sitting in the film room and studying, but a QB can also lose his confidence in his guesses, if he doesn't have the success he anticipates he should have-- given a certain circumstance -- when he's forced to play the game too soon.

For example a defense gives him a man look, and drops into zone. He's fooled into thinking man, and throws into the receiver running an out and up. However its actually a zone and he throws a pick because the inside DB drops into the zone instead of following his man assignment that the QB "thought" was the coverage. Now he loses a bit of confidence in his ability to read the defense in that circumstance.

In other words, given enough failures from the QBs perspective, those correct guesses and anticipatory throws might not happen because the QB doubts himself. Confidence is a fragile thing, and a QB can lose it easily and its very hard to regain it again if its lost. I think the bust rate of a QB is somewhat related to the fact that he loses confidence in himself when he's thrown to the wolves, so to speak, and suffers a lot of failure that destroys his belief in himself. It takes a special kind of mind to withstand the pressure of the media, the fans, the coaches and his own expectations in the face of constant losing and failure.

Kyle is correctly bringing Lance slowly along, giving him the occasional chances in a real game already (he played in the Lions game, for example) but he's not going to play Lance against a very good defense and risk Lance losing his confidence because the defense he faces won't give him the time to throw.

Originally posted by Giedi:
For example a defense gives him a man look, and drops into zone. He's fooled into thinking man, and throws into the receiver running an out and up. However its actually a zone and he throws a pick because the inside DB drops into the zone instead of following his man assignment that the QB "thought" was the coverage. Now he loses a bit of confidence in his ability to read the defense in that circumstance.

This hasn't happened yet this season but this example happens ALL THE TIME with Jimmy. Most of his picks are because a defender disguises his look and gets the ball thrown right to him.

My biggest problem with the Trey needs to sit the season advocates is that the mistakes they are afraid Trey will make due to inexperience, are happening regularly with Jimmy. It's not like Jimmy is Aaron Rodgers or Alex Smith and don't throw many picks.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I wasn't trying to debate you on that subject. I was just stating both ends of the spectum. But since you decided to highlight that one sentence out of my entire post. If you believe the best way for a football player to develop is to actually play football than why weren't you an advocate of Trey starting day one?

Because we have a QB that knows the offense and can win games right now…and who's getting paid top money. This is separate from assuming sitting a rookie QB for a yr gives him his best chance to develop and be successful.

im fine with the way things are right now, but people thinking Lance is gonna come into 2022 ready to ball out because he held a clipboard for a yr, well you're gonna be disappointed. It's a process and part of that process is letting the kid play football to improve. This FO knew that when they drafted him and I hope fan's understand this.

FWIW I would like to see him get some meaningful snaps throughout the year, not a couple ZRs on 3rd in long or in the RZ…legit in the pocket series. He needs that.

Treyxcuses already.

Awww you posted a selfie
and your way better looking then I thought.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I wasn't trying to debate you on that subject. I was just stating both ends of the spectum. But since you decided to highlight that one sentence out of my entire post. If you believe the best way for a football player to develop is to actually play football than why weren't you an advocate of Trey starting day one?

Because we have a QB that knows the offense and can win games right now…and who's getting paid top money. This is separate from assuming sitting a rookie QB for a yr gives him his best chance to develop and be successful.

im fine with the way things are right now, but people thinking Lance is gonna come into 2022 ready to ball out because he held a clipboard for a yr, well you're gonna be disappointed. It's a process and part of that process is letting the kid play football to improve. This FO knew that when they drafted him and I hope fan's understand this.

FWIW I would like to see him get some meaningful snaps throughout the year, not a couple ZRs on 3rd in long or in the RZ…legit in the pocket series. He needs that.

Treyxcuses already.

Awww you posted a selfie
and your way better looking then I thought.

*you're *than

lol the J's.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Giedi:
For example a defense gives him a man look, and drops into zone. He's fooled into thinking man, and throws into the receiver running an out and up. However its actually a zone and he throws a pick because the inside DB drops into the zone instead of following his man assignment that the QB "thought" was the coverage. Now he loses a bit of confidence in his ability to read the defense in that circumstance.

This hasn't happened yet this season but this example happens ALL THE TIME with Jimmy. Most of his picks are because a defender disguises his look and gets the ball thrown right to him.

My biggest problem with the Trey needs to sit the season advocates is that the mistakes they are afraid Trey will make due to inexperience, are happening regularly with Jimmy. It's not like Jimmy is Aaron Rodgers or Alex Smith and don't throw many picks.

Yeach, agree that Jimmy has those WTF moments, but so did our past QBs that were awarded yellow jackets. Montana once did an interview where he said, he could guess and anticipate the defensive coverages correctly 90% to 95% of the time. Until Trey can begin to approach that kind of level of anticipation, it may be counterproductive to put him in the game.

Back to the Jimmy WTF throws, keep in mind he was still learning the offense and the injuries don't help either. Jimmy's thrown 55 passes and no interceptions this year so far, which is a bit better than '19 and '20 (for now). I think if Trey is beginning to light up the 49er secondary in practice, that might be a sign (to me if I was coach) that Trey is ready to compete with Jimmy for the starting position. Until then, I'd be picking and choosing very carefully when Trey plays, and with the primary goal to build his confidence vs playing him to learn the offense.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Giedi:
For example a defense gives him a man look, and drops into zone. He's fooled into thinking man, and throws into the receiver running an out and up. However its actually a zone and he throws a pick because the inside DB drops into the zone instead of following his man assignment that the QB "thought" was the coverage. Now he loses a bit of confidence in his ability to read the defense in that circumstance.

This hasn't happened yet this season but this example happens ALL THE TIME with Jimmy. Most of his picks are because a defender disguises his look and gets the ball thrown right to him.

My biggest problem with the Trey needs to sit the season advocates is that the mistakes they are afraid Trey will make due to inexperience, are happening regularly with Jimmy. It's not like Jimmy is Aaron Rodgers or Alex Smith and don't throw many picks.

This isn't an oranges to oranges comparison. It's not like Lance learned from all the Jimmy mistakes that were made while he was in high school and college. Jimmy while not perfect, does learn from his mistakes. Just look at his stats for drives right after an interception.

Aside from experience and enforcing bad habits Lance has little to gain from throwing him in right now when a fully capable QB is at the helm. Don't know how it's even a debate. Mahomes, Rodgers and Brady have all said how their time sitting back as a rookie made them better prepared when they were starting. All the behind the scenes work is where they make progress, not game experience. Just weird that having a proven winning QB isn't enough so they want to throw a rookie in and say f*ck it. As if he was so impressive during preseason he should start… he wasn't. I'm on the Lance train but I'll take JGs 2 wtf plays along with playing it safe over rookie Russian roulette. Give him the year or at least however long before JG gets injured and then let him shine. The longer Lance is on the bench the more polished he will be when he has to start.

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
This isn't an oranges to oranges comparison. It's not like Lance learned from all the Jimmy mistakes that were made while he was in high school and college. Jimmy while not perfect, does learn from his mistakes. Just look at his stats for drives right after an interception.

Aside from experience and enforcing bad habits Lance has little to gain from throwing him in right now when a fully capable QB is at the helm. Don't know how it's even a debate. Mahomes, Rodgers and Brady have all said how their time sitting back as a rookie made them better prepared when they were starting. All the behind the scenes work is where they make progress, not game experience. Just weird that having a proven winning QB isn't enough so they want to throw a rookie in and say f*ck it. As if he was so impressive during preseason he should start… he wasn't. I'm on the Lance train but I'll take JGs 2 wtf plays along with playing it safe over rookie Russian roulette. Give him the year or at least however long before JG gets injured and then let him shine. The longer Lance is on the bench the more polished he will be when he has to start.

My sentiments, exactly. Nice post.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Treyxcuses already.

Jose, I expect you to come up with every excuse for a Lance like you have for Jimmy when he's the starting QB and not playing like a pro-bowler.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I wasn't trying to debate you on that subject. I was just stating both ends of the spectum. But since you decided to highlight that one sentence out of my entire post. If you believe the best way for a football player to develop is to actually play football than why weren't you an advocate of Trey starting day one?

Because we have a QB that knows the offense and can win games right now…and who's getting paid top money. This is separate from assuming sitting a rookie QB for a yr gives him his best chance to develop and be successful.

im fine with the way things are right now, but people thinking Lance is gonna come into 2022 ready to ball out because he held a clipboard for a yr, well you're gonna be disappointed. It's a process and part of that process is letting the kid play football to improve. This FO knew that when they drafted him and I hope fan's understand this.

FWIW I would like to see him get some meaningful snaps throughout the year, not a couple ZRs on 3rd in long or in the RZ…legit in the pocket series. He needs that.

Treyxcuses already.

.

I mean according to you guys if he sits a yr he's gonna turn into Mahomes lol

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
To be fair, most of those teams don't have a better option. Who else are the Jets, Patriots, and Jags going to start? The Bears were going with Dalton until he got hurt so it looks like Fields will start.

This. Most rookie QBs start out of a lack of a better option on the roster. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

What I've yet to see is anyone making a compelling case for why sitting a QB for their rookie year is going to hurt their long term development.

If sitting a high draft pick rookie QB was the best way to develop a QB in todays NFL - then those teams would sign a below average starter in FA or start a backup QB - while their rookie QB learns on the sidelines.

It's not like you're gonna compete for Super Bowl with a rookie QB and often new regimes are the ones that draft rookie QBs - so they're unlikely to get fired for a poor season.

Most franchises start their rookie QB bc that's usually the best way. They'll not risk his development bc they don't have a better option on the roster.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Giedi:

For example a defense gives him a man look, and drops into zone. He's fooled into thinking man, and throws into the receiver running an out and up. However its actually a zone and he throws a pick because the inside DB drops into the zone instead of following his man assignment that the QB "thought" was the coverage. Now he loses a bit of confidence in his ability to read the defense in that circumstance.

This hasn't happened yet this season but this example happens ALL THE TIME with Jimmy. Most of his picks are because a defender disguises his look and gets the ball thrown right to him.

My biggest problem with the Trey needs to sit the season advocates is that the mistakes they are afraid Trey will make due to inexperience, are happening regularly with Jimmy. It's not like Jimmy is Aaron Rodgers or Alex Smith and don't throw many picks.

Are you good with the wait until Shanahan thinks Trey give us the same chance to win week in and week out to start him advocates?

The team is in win now mode IMO.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I mean according to you guys if he sits a yr he's gonna turn into Mahomes lol

Worked for Mahomes

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
To be fair, most of those teams don't have a better option. Who else are the Jets, Patriots, and Jags going to start? The Bears were going with Dalton until he got hurt so it looks like Fields will start.

This. Most rookie QBs start out of a lack of a better option on the roster. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

What I've yet to see is anyone making a compelling case for why sitting a QB for their rookie year is going to hurt their long term development.

If sitting a high draft pick rookie QB was the best way to develop a QB in todays NFL - then those teams would sign a below average starter in FA or start a backup QB - while their rookie QB learns on the sidelines.

It's not like you're gonna compete for Super Bowl with a rookie QB and often new regimes are the ones that draft rookie QBs - so they're unlikely to get fired for a poor season.

Most franchises start their rookie QB bc that's usually the best way. They'll not risk his development bc they don't have a better option on the roster.

I'd like to hear a compelling argument that sitting a player for a yr is gonna make them vastly better in the long-term? All I hear is look at Mahomes. Like he wasn't some special talent to begin with. I'll bet money he's still f**king good if he played yr 1.

all I've said is playing football gets you better at playing football…NFL players tell you that, our freaking HC said that.

I also understand the situation we're in and overall it's fine…but people expecting Mahomes 2.0 in 2022 just because he red shirt are fooling themselves. There's a process and a massive part of it is playing football and dealing with the bumps in the road.

Originally posted by Bluesbro:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I mean according to you guys if he sits a yr he's gonna turn into Mahomes lol

Worked for Mahomes

He would still be good if he played yr 1…special talent with that roster and HC equals success.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I wasn't trying to debate you on that subject. I was just stating both ends of the spectum. But since you decided to highlight that one sentence out of my entire post. If you believe the best way for a football player to develop is to actually play football than why weren't you an advocate of Trey starting day one?

Because we have a QB that knows the offense and can win games right now…and who's getting paid top money. This is separate from assuming sitting a rookie QB for a yr gives him his best chance to develop and be successful.

im fine with the way things are right now, but people thinking Lance is gonna come into 2022 ready to ball out because he held a clipboard for a yr, well you're gonna be disappointed. It's a process and part of that process is letting the kid play football to improve. This FO knew that when they drafted him and I hope fan's understand this.

FWIW I would like to see him get some meaningful snaps throughout the year, not a couple ZRs on 3rd in long or in the RZ…legit in the pocket series. He needs that.

Treyxcuses already.

.

I mean according to you guys if he sits a yr he's gonna turn into Mahomes lol

.