Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
.

Clearly you've missed the last couple pages lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
To be fair, most of those teams don't have a better option. Who else are the Jets, Patriots, and Jags going to start? The Bears were going with Dalton until he got hurt so it looks like Fields will start.

This. Most rookie QBs start out of a lack of a better option on the roster. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

What I've yet to see is anyone making a compelling case for why sitting a QB for their rookie year is going to hurt their long term development.

If sitting a high draft pick rookie QB was the best way to develop a QB in todays NFL - then those teams would sign a below average starter in FA or start a backup QB - while their rookie QB learns on the sidelines.

It's not like you're gonna compete for Super Bowl with a rookie QB and often new regimes are the ones that draft rookie QBs - so they're unlikely to get fired for a poor season.

Most franchises start their rookie QB bc that's usually the best way. They'll not risk his development bc they don't have a better option on the roster.

I'd like to hear a compelling argument that sitting a player for a yr is gonna make them vastly better in the long-term? All I hear is look at Mahomes. Like he wasn't some special talent to begin with. I'll bet money he's still f**king good if he played yr 1.

all I've said is playing football gets you better at playing football…NFL players tell you that, our freaking HC said that.

I also understand the situation we're in and overall it's fine…but people expecting Mahomes 2.0 in 2022 just because he red shirt are fooling themselves. There's a process and a massive part of it is playing football and dealing with the bumps in the road.

Can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not expecting him to be Mahomes 2.0 because he redshirts. My position is you're definitely not gonna see Mahomes 2.0 in his rookie year. Too much to work on to execute Kyle's offense.

You have to remember, because of the CBA, Kyle isn't going to be able to coach Lance for over 5 months of the year. To work on the mechanics, footwork, position meetings on the ins and outs of the plays - we forget a lot of times how much classroom time is spent in each and every play. Vince Lombardi once spent 6 hours with John Madden going over just the Packers sweep.

This is the time when players get the bulk of that, one with training camp. The qb coach, Kyle and quality control coaches will spend hours each week in rotation with Lance to work on all the things that they don't want him having to learn on top of learning from experience.

Red-shirting won't hinder his growth. It allows him to have a more stable platform to realize his potential.

Nothing will replace live reps but I don't want him starting this year. The odds are too far against us to compete for a SB with him starting this year. Could it happen? Anything can happen. Is it likely? No. You don't give up on a SB goal just to look forward to next year. You aren't guaranteed that Lance doesn't tear an ACL in week 3(I hope to god he doesn't) but if it happens, then why did you punt away 2021?

Are we super bowl contenders with Jimmy G? Maybe- we've been before so it is possible to be again. Are we with Lance? He would have to be the 1st rookie in a LONG line of superbly talented rookie qb's to do it, so almost surely not.

You gain nothing for 2021, only 2022 by doing so. Well, we can't be guaranteed that half the team doesn't get injured in OTA's before 2022 even happens. You play the season you're in, while you're in it.

You play the guy who gives you the best chance to win.

Right now, and unless Jimmy G gets hurt, that's not Lance.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not expecting him to be Mahomes 2.0 because he redshirts. My position is you're definitely not gonna see Mahomes 2.0 in his rookie year. Too much to work on to execute Kyle's offense.

You have to remember, because of the CBA, Kyle isn't going to be able to coach Lance for over 5 months of the year. To work on the mechanics, footwork, position meetings on the ins and outs of the plays - we forget a lot of times how much classroom time is spent in each and every play. Vince Lombardi once spent 6 hours with John Madden going over just the Packers sweep.

This is the time when players get the bulk of that, one with training camp. The qb coach, Kyle and quality control coaches will spend hours each week in rotation with Lance to work on all the things that they don't want him having to learn on top of learning from experience.

Red-shirting won't hinder his growth. It allows him to have a more stable platform to realize his potential.

Nothing will replace live reps but I don't want him starting this year. The odds are too far against us to compete for a SB with him starting this year. Could it happen? Anything can happen. Is it likely? No. You don't give up on a SB goal just to look forward to next year. You aren't guaranteed that Lance doesn't tear an ACL in week 3(I hope to god he doesn't) but if it happens, then why did you punt away 2021?

Are we super bowl contenders with Jimmy G? Maybe- we've been before so it is possible to be again. Are we with Lance? He would have to be the 1st rookie in a LONG line of superbly talented rookie qb's to do it, so almost surely not.

You gain nothing for 2021, only 2022 by doing so. Well, we can't be guaranteed that half the team doesn't get injured in OTA's before 2022 even happens. You play the season you're in, while you're in it.

You play the guy who gives you the best chance to win.

Right now, and unless Jimmy G gets hurt, that's not Lance.

Ok, I'll bite. On this long list of rookies, how many were on a Super Bowl ready team?

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not expecting him to be Mahomes 2.0 because he redshirts. My position is you're definitely not gonna see Mahomes 2.0 in his rookie year. Too much to work on to execute Kyle's offense.

You have to remember, because of the CBA, Kyle isn't going to be able to coach Lance for over 5 months of the year. To work on the mechanics, footwork, position meetings on the ins and outs of the plays - we forget a lot of times how much classroom time is spent in each and every play. Vince Lombardi once spent 6 hours with John Madden going over just the Packers sweep.

This is the time when players get the bulk of that, one with training camp. The qb coach, Kyle and quality control coaches will spend hours each week in rotation with Lance to work on all the things that they don't want him having to learn on top of learning from experience.

Red-shirting won't hinder his growth. It allows him to have a more stable platform to realize his potential.

Nothing will replace live reps but I don't want him starting this year. The odds are too far against us to compete for a SB with him starting this year. Could it happen? Anything can happen. Is it likely? No. You don't give up on a SB goal just to look forward to next year. You aren't guaranteed that Lance doesn't tear an ACL in week 3(I hope to god he doesn't) but if it happens, then why did you punt away 2021?

Are we super bowl contenders with Jimmy G? Maybe- we've been before so it is possible to be again. Are we with Lance? He would have to be the 1st rookie in a LONG line of superbly talented rookie qb's to do it, so almost surely not.

You gain nothing for 2021, only 2022 by doing so. Well, we can't be guaranteed that half the team doesn't get injured in OTA's before 2022 even happens. You play the season you're in, while you're in it.

You play the guy who gives you the best chance to win.

Right now, and unless Jimmy G gets hurt, that's not Lance.

Ok, I'll bite. On this long list of rookies, how many were on a Super Bowl ready team?

I'm not trying to get anyone to bite, just stating my opinion. But, guys that come to mind, and I include playoff teams because you have to assume if a team makes it to the playoffs, they are super bowl contenders.

Dan Marino, Daunte Culpepper, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Russel Wilson, Matt Ryan, RGIII, Tim Tebow, Kyle Boller, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

My memory is fuzzy on teams outside the niners before 2000. But, those names come to mind. They were all 1st or 2nd rounders - mostly 1st, so somebody believed in them about as strongly as we believe in Lance.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm not trying to get anyone to bite, just stating my opinion. But, guys that come to mind, and I include playoff teams because you have to assume if a team makes it to the playoffs, they are super bowl contenders.

Dan Marino, Daunte Culpepper, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Russel Wilson, Matt Ryan, RGIII, Tim Tebow, Kyle Boller, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

My memory is fuzzy on teams outside the niners before 2000. But, those names come to mind. They were all 1st or 2nd rounders - mostly 1st, so somebody believed in them about as strongly as we believe in Lance.

Well, I said Super Bowl ready teams, so Andrew Luck is a good example. Don't think Mahomes played his rookie year, and you should wash your mouth out with the Sanchez and Tebow examples.

This isn't really going to add anything meaningful to this thread but it's somewhat related to Trey so here I go.

I like to play franchise mode on Madden on easy settings and just play the hell out of the season and set all sorts of records with our players.

Went 20-0 this season and had Trey pretty much crush every passing in a season record with Bosa tripling the sacks in a season record. Last time I did that it was 2019 but didn't do it last year. So you're welcome everyone. I pretty much just ensured Lance and Bosa are HOF locks for us.

Also simulated the next 10 seasons in Madden just to see how many they'd have us winning and man Madden is the worst at keeping teams together. Checked the roster in 2031 and not a single player from the actual roster was there. Lance was the QB for the Jets(but had the best stats in that season) Bosa was on to the Bengals and still playing great, and that was after going to GB

Thankfully we're not going to be stupid enough to let top notch QB and DE talents leave in FA like Madden had no problem doing.

If you've read this far I salute you…but I did warn you it wouldn't be adding anything meaningful to this thread.

If we start losing then I would understand all the hype to play him. Some people crowning this guy because he was drafted 3rd overall and we paid a small fortune in draft capital.. besides the two non playing factors what has this 20 year old rookie accomplished.. nothing. I like to win and I'm sure the team does two. They got a QB who does that at a elite level, 3 inch passes and all and people want to sacrifice the winning for a unknown player.. this is the definition of shooting yourself in the face while cleaning your gun. Too many fantasy football stat and Grant Cohn fanboy's here. What's Kyles record without Jimmy starting? Atrocious..

Originally posted by genus49:
This isn't really going to add anything meaningful to this thread but it's somewhat related to Trey so here I go.

I like to play franchise mode on Madden on easy settings and just play the hell out of the season and set all sorts of records with our players.

Went 20-0 this season and had Trey pretty much crush every passing in a season record with Bosa tripling the sacks in a season record. Last time I did that it was 2019 but didn't do it last year. So you're welcome everyone. I pretty much just ensured Lance and Bosa are HOF locks for us.

Also simulated the next 10 seasons in Madden just to see how many they'd have us winning and man Madden is the worst at keeping teams together. Checked the roster in 2031 and not a single player from the actual roster was there. Lance was the QB for the Jets(but had the best stats in that season) Bosa was on to the Bengals and still playing great, and that was after going to GB

Thankfully we're not going to be stupid enough to let top notch QB and DE talents leave in FA like Madden had no problem doing.

If you've read this far I salute you…but I did warn you it wouldn't be adding anything meaningful to this thread.

Was Bosa still on the roster in 2031?

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm not trying to get anyone to bite, just stating my opinion. But, guys that come to mind, and I include playoff teams because you have to assume if a team makes it to the playoffs, they are super bowl contenders.

Dan Marino, Daunte Culpepper, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Russel Wilson, Matt Ryan, RGIII, Tim Tebow, Kyle Boller, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

My memory is fuzzy on teams outside the niners before 2000. But, those names come to mind. They were all 1st or 2nd rounders - mostly 1st, so somebody believed in them about as strongly as we believe in Lance.

Well, I said Super Bowl ready teams, so Andrew Luck is a good example. Don't think Mahomes played his rookie year, and you should wash your mouth out with the Sanchez and Tebow examples.

Like I said, Sanchez and Tebow were 1st round draft picks, you don't get the luxury of critiquing that from hindsight.

While we certainly hope Lance is better than those guys, those teams felt as strongly about those guys as we feel about Lance.

Mahomes played in game 16 but it's still valid because he was a 1st round pick and if Andy Reid thought Mahomes gave him a better chance to win, he'd have been playing. He didn't win a SB his 2nd year with pretty much the same team, while winning league MVP so there's zero reason to believe he would've his rookie year.

Dan Marino went to the SB his rookie year, Sanchez to the AFCCG, Culpepper was on a ridiculously talented team that had bounced our 1998 squad from the playoffs the year before, the Seahawks won a SB in Russ's 2nd year, the broncos had just won a SB, the Steelers went 11-5 and won a super bowl the next year, the Falcons went 12-4, the Ravens had won a SB 2 years prior and still had a phenomenal defense(Kyle Boller).

These are all guys whom teams considered 1st round talents.

Let's even take Dan Marino, might be the best pure thrower ever, Russ will be in the HOF, Mahomes is the best qb in the league, Lamar won MVP, Matt Ryan has an MVP and rookie of the year, Daunte Culpepper was rookie of the year, all pro and pro-bowl, Ben Roethlisberger will be HOF, has 2 SB wins.

I like Trey Lance, but the dude only threw 300 passes in college. Are you telling me he's gonna be better than all those guys in his rookie year? That's crazy, crazy high expectations that I don't think ANY draft pick should have on them.

.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
.

its accurate cause he looking like the freshest out of the bunch right here.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
.

Mac Jones not bad

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm not trying to get anyone to bite, just stating my opinion. But, guys that come to mind, and I include playoff teams because you have to assume if a team makes it to the playoffs, they are super bowl contenders.

Dan Marino, Daunte Culpepper, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Russel Wilson, Matt Ryan, RGIII, Tim Tebow, Kyle Boller, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

My memory is fuzzy on teams outside the niners before 2000. But, those names come to mind. They were all 1st or 2nd rounders - mostly 1st, so somebody believed in them about as strongly as we believe in Lance.

Well, I said Super Bowl ready teams, so Andrew Luck is a good example. Don't think Mahomes played his rookie year, and you should wash your mouth out with the Sanchez and Tebow examples.

Like I said, Sanchez and Tebow were 1st round draft picks, you don't get the luxury of critiquing that from hindsight.

While we certainly hope Lance is better than those guys, those teams felt as strongly about those guys as we feel about Lance.

Mahomes played in game 16 but it's still valid because he was a 1st round pick and if Andy Reid thought Mahomes gave him a better chance to win, he'd have been playing. He didn't win a SB his 2nd year with pretty much the same team, while winning league MVP so there's zero reason to believe he would've his rookie year.

Dan Marino went to the SB his rookie year, Sanchez to the AFCCG, Culpepper was on a ridiculously talented team that had bounced our 1998 squad from the playoffs the year before, the Seahawks won a SB in Russ's 2nd year, the broncos had just won a SB, the Steelers went 11-5 and won a super bowl the next year, the Falcons went 12-4, the Ravens had won a SB 2 years prior and still had a phenomenal defense(Kyle Boller).

These are all guys whom teams considered 1st round talents.

Let's even take Dan Marino, might be the best pure thrower ever, Russ will be in the HOF, Mahomes is the best qb in the league, Lamar won MVP, Matt Ryan has an MVP and rookie of the year, Daunte Culpepper was rookie of the year, all pro and pro-bowl, Ben Roethlisberger will be HOF, has 2 SB wins.

I like Trey Lance, but the dude only threw 300 passes in college. Are you telling me he's gonna be better than all those guys in his rookie year? That's crazy, crazy high expectations that I don't think ANY draft pick should have on them.

Nevertheless, not a long list. Unless you have a different definition of long. Mahomes didn't play his rookie year, and everyone knows why Sanchez and Tebow didn't do it. If you're saying Trey can't because nobody else has, I don't have a response. I do happen to think that if there ever was an opportunity, this would be it with Trey. We likely won't see however, unless Jimmy gets hurt. The fact that Shanahan is rolling into this season with only two quarterbacks, one of which is extremely fragile, tells me that he has faith in the rookie.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
.

Mac Jones not bad

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm not trying to get anyone to bite, just stating my opinion. But, guys that come to mind, and I include playoff teams because you have to assume if a team makes it to the playoffs, they are super bowl contenders.

Dan Marino, Daunte Culpepper, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Russel Wilson, Matt Ryan, RGIII, Tim Tebow, Kyle Boller, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson.

My memory is fuzzy on teams outside the niners before 2000. But, those names come to mind. They were all 1st or 2nd rounders - mostly 1st, so somebody believed in them about as strongly as we believe in Lance.

Well, I said Super Bowl ready teams, so Andrew Luck is a good example. Don't think Mahomes played his rookie year, and you should wash your mouth out with the Sanchez and Tebow examples.

Like I said, Sanchez and Tebow were 1st round draft picks, you don't get the luxury of critiquing that from hindsight.

While we certainly hope Lance is better than those guys, those teams felt as strongly about those guys as we feel about Lance.

Mahomes played in game 16 but it's still valid because he was a 1st round pick and if Andy Reid thought Mahomes gave him a better chance to win, he'd have been playing. He didn't win a SB his 2nd year with pretty much the same team, while winning league MVP so there's zero reason to believe he would've his rookie year.

Dan Marino went to the SB his rookie year, Sanchez to the AFCCG, Culpepper was on a ridiculously talented team that had bounced our 1998 squad from the playoffs the year before, the Seahawks won a SB in Russ's 2nd year, the broncos had just won a SB, the Steelers went 11-5 and won a super bowl the next year, the Falcons went 12-4, the Ravens had won a SB 2 years prior and still had a phenomenal defense(Kyle Boller).

These are all guys whom teams considered 1st round talents.

Let's even take Dan Marino, might be the best pure thrower ever, Russ will be in the HOF, Mahomes is the best qb in the league, Lamar won MVP, Matt Ryan has an MVP and rookie of the year, Daunte Culpepper was rookie of the year, all pro and pro-bowl, Ben Roethlisberger will be HOF, has 2 SB wins.

I like Trey Lance, but the dude only threw 300 passes in college. Are you telling me he's gonna be better than all those guys in his rookie year? That's crazy, crazy high expectations that I don't think ANY draft pick should have on them.

Nevertheless, not a long list. Unless you have a different definition of long. Mahomes didn't play his rookie year, and everyone knows why Sanchez and Tebow didn't do it. If you're saying Trey can't because nobody else has, I don't have a response. I do happen to think that if there ever was an opportunity, this would be it with Trey. We likely won't see however, unless Jimmy gets hurt. The fact that Shanahan is rolling into this season with only two quarterbacks, one of which is extremely fragile, tells me that he has faith in the rookie.

Yeah, I can get that and I get that because something hasn't happened before doesn't preclude something from happening in the future.

I think it's just asking a whole heckuva lot of a rookie to come in and run Shanahans offense. This is Jimmy's 4th year and was what Shanahan was predicting he'd be like in 2020. I'm just looking at the likelihood of a guy who has played so little as Lance has and against talent very much below NFL level, I just don't see how he could be playoff ready by this season. Seems to be asking way too much. At least not in an iteration as potent as Shanahans offense run by Garoppolo.