Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Is there a QB in this still pic?

Yeah the same one that plants and never moves after his slide step, regardless if the pocket is collapsing. Is that one of the slowest WRs in the NFL getting open deep? Can't be, need to be a burner for that, everyone knows that

LOL. OK.

Sherfield is probably a better deep threat right now than him. This ain't Madden.

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. OK.

Sherfield is probably a better deep threat right now than him. This ain't Madden.

You're right, I did see Sherfield get open deep too, although it was preseason and a different QB who will actually throw the ball. I've seen all of our WRs get open deep. Weird, I been told by some that we don't have the WRs who can do that, certainly not the "burners" able to do so. What does Madden have to do with anything? You reminding yourself of that after seeing Sanu do it too?

There are lot's of opinions on these pages about when to start Trey and they're all valid. He's not ready. We all know that. He needs reps. We all know that. There is no future with Jimmy and delaying starting Trey only prolongs his learning curve. Once he's healthy he has to play.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's Kyle more than anything. Oscar said it best on his podcast today: "Kyle is risk-aversive."

His entire career confirms he stays true to the higher % in his 80% zone.

Going forward, those are going to come far more on off schedule plays with Trey than by design with Kyle.

Needing everyone to run your offense perfectly for a long drawn out drive is more risky then pushing the ball downfield in today's game...Kyle talked about Josh Allen after getting destroyed by him & at that point it seemed like he finally got it, drafting Lance also showed that BUT from the looks of it this yr, he still thinks scheme wins and it's like he didn't watch all these loses this yr and how they happened.

Time to let Lance play football...let him get comfortable with his teammates and call plays he feels good with running. Add more to his plate as we go.

I could careless if Jimmy runs his scheme a little better...it's clearly not working. With Jimmy if it's a bad read, blown block, bad route, poor throw the play is over. That great play call is pointless. There's not extending plays or of script stuff with him. He's not saving Kyle's ass when someone f**ks up. Lance can do that and imo is smart enough to run Kyle's offense as he plays more.

Agreed. It's so frustrating.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Is there a QB in this still pic?

Is that the ball already over the numbers? If so then the dude in the circle was not open when it was released.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. OK.

Sherfield is probably a better deep threat right now than him. This ain't Madden.

You're right, I did see Sherfield get open deep too, although it was preseason and a different QB who will actually throw the ball. I've seen all of our WRs get open deep. Weird, I been told by some that we don't have the WRs who can do that, certainly not the "burners" able to do so. What does Madden have to do with anything? You reminding yourself of that after seeing Sanu do it too?

Because, "Why don't we just go deep..." has about six different layers of truth and nobody wants to acknowledge them.

So again, this ain't Madden.

If it was, Kyle might actually go deep too...maybe...big maybe. Nah. LOL

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:
There is a whole world of learning a lot about pre snap and post reads and decision making as he watches JG operate. Developing an NFL QB is a lot more than teaching them the playbook and then throwing them into the deep end. The NFL is a whole nother animal with what he sees from defenses and that's before one even factors in the speed of the game being a lot faster too.

A QB who doesn't know what he is seeing or doesn't know how to adjust to it, is more likely to make costly mental mistakes, develop bad habits and or get his ass killed out there. The game does not slow down when you are struggling to see things.

Stopped reading when you said watch how Jimmy operates.

I posted this and wanted a response...So far Lance as "red shirt" basically for 5+ months. Do you think he would have played better vs AZ if he got all the reps in TC/OTAs, preseason, practices and started day 1 OR would he have looked exactly the same as he did getting a week of practices reps and starting his first game because our lame duck starting QB got hurt again? IF him sitting and "developing" led to that week 5 game then just start him now....because he isn't learning s**t holding a clipboard.

I didn't say how JG operates, I said watching JG operate. It isn't about watching JG and learning from what he does because "JG does things right". This isn't about JG. Whether JG is good or bad, there is something to learn on just about every play. Trey gets to experience seeing these plays VS far more intelligent and intricate defenses in real time but then they get to go to the tape and dissect, analyze and learn from each play and take something away.

The more Trey sees and learns from a mental standpoint better prepares him for putting it to practice in real time. The less he sees and knows, the more he has to figure out in real time. It's common sense, and it is why you hear these QBs who have had to sit before they were deemed ready to play, claim that it truly helped them a ton.

Downplaying holding a clipboard for a rookie is silly s**t. It's an emotionally driven opinion, I get it though, some folks are tired of JG and are more than ready to see the shiny new toy. Does not mean the kid is ready though, and if Kyle were to play Trey before he is ready and ruins him, not a single fan has to fall on that sword, but Kyle does.

Let Kyle play Trey when Kyle is ready to play Trey. It's his ass not yours or mine and he dang well knows that. This is the best QB prospect Kyle has ever wanted and gotten, have a little faith and trust that the coach is trying to put Trey in the best position possible to succeed.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

But he's waving his hand so he has to be the primary. Right? RIGHT?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

You can say this with confidence how? Lance played fairly well vs Arizona. I don't recall him having too many missed reads - missed throws yes, missed reads nothing that showed rookie who can't play right now if given the opportunity.

You act like the only missed throw Jimmy had was on the last pick where rain was an issue. That's not true. Jimmy isn't Tom Brady out there and Lance isn't a rookie who is completely lost out there.

I can. It's true, it's not even close. That's not a knock on Lance. One thing Jimmy has been pretty good at are his reads. No QB is 100% but you guys are listening to too many twitter heads. Vs ARI I saw quite a few missed or late reads by Lance - that's to be expected. He's raw. Don't know why this is even debatable.

Always appreciate your take jonny but how many missed reads did you see?

Jimmy SHOULD be better in the mental part of playing QB in this offense. He's been here long enough. Would you say Trey is out there just being an athlete running around like he doesn't know where to go with the ball unless he sees it? Because SD's post basically made it seem like that.

No, not at all. More, things are overwhelming him. The data is coming fast and in amounts he's not used to. He's missing key reads, slow in progressions and having difficultly identifying man vs zone pre-snap even when given help, at times - not all the time. But, he's hanging in there, he's not just backyard balling it.

As per Jimmy, hard to ballpark. I'd say 85%+ he's on the right reads. He's usually around 70% comp and then there's missed throws here and there. I want to say, the last few games of Brees I watched, he was, and this is just trying to spit ball an estimate off memory it was around 90+% on his reads. When I scouted Mahomes before the SB in 2019 he was well below 85%. He just had the ability to extend and then the most explosive receiving group, maybe ever.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

But he's waving his hand so he has to be the primary. Right? RIGHT?

Is the argument that Deebo was the first read? Or that it was a bad decision throwing there?

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Is there a QB in this still pic?

Is that the ball already over the numbers? If so then the dude in the circle was not open when it was released.

The safety was following Jimmy's eyes. If he sits in the middle, most likely taken away. It's a product of people not knowing 100% what theyrr looking at. I'm on my phone or I'd post the play art.

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's Kyle more than anything. Oscar said it best on his podcast today: "Kyle is risk-aversive."

His entire career confirms he stays true to the higher % in his 80% zone.

Going forward, those are going to come far more on off schedule plays with Trey than by design with Kyle.

Needing everyone to run your offense perfectly for a long drawn out drive is more risky then pushing the ball downfield in today's game...Kyle talked about Josh Allen after getting destroyed by him & at that point it seemed like he finally got it, drafting Lance also showed that BUT from the looks of it this yr, he still thinks scheme wins and it's like he didn't watch all these loses this yr and how they happened.

Time to let Lance play football...let him get comfortable with his teammates and call plays he feels good with running. Add more to his plate as we go.

I could careless if Jimmy runs his scheme a little better...it's clearly not working. With Jimmy if it's a bad read, blown block, bad route, poor throw the play is over. That great play call is pointless. There's not extending plays or of script stuff with him. He's not saving Kyle's ass when someone f**ks up. Lance can do that and imo is smart enough to run Kyle's offense as he plays more.

Agreed. It's so frustrating.

Kyle is a control freak. He is going to ruin Lance as he has ruined RG3, JG etc and chocked in two Super Bowls. If Kyle does not adapt his coaching style he is going to end up in the dust bin. NY and NC have nailed his weakness. He has a great foundation of football knowledge and drafts up some great plays. But he is inflexible and does not allow innovation and ad lib. He also wants pocket passes but does not prioritise protecting the passer. When the pocket collapses so does his plays.

I bet he is trying to design ad lib plays for Trey but it does not work that way. He has to let go and let the players be able to figure out what to do some times.

Originally posted by evil:
I didn't say how JG operates, I said watching JG operate. It isn't about watching JG and learning from what he does because "JG does things right". This isn't about JG. Whether JG is good or bad, there is something to learn on just about every play. Trey gets to experience seeing these plays VS far more intelligent and intricate defenses in real time but then they get to go to the tape and dissect, analyze and learn from each play and take something away.

The more Trey sees and learns from a mental standpoint better prepares him for putting it to practice in real time. The less he sees and knows, the more he has to figure out in real time. It's common sense, and it is why you hear these QBs who have had to sit before they were deemed ready to play, claim that it truly helped them a ton.

Downplaying holding a clipboard for a rookie is silly s**t. It's an emotionally driven opinion, I get it though, some folks are tired of JG and are more than ready to see the shiny new toy. Does not mean the kid is ready though, and if Kyle were to play Trey before he is ready and ruins him, not a single fan has to fall on that sword, but Kyle does.

Let Kyle play Trey when Kyle is ready to play Trey. It's his ass not yours or mine and he dang well knows that. This is the best QB prospect Kyle has ever wanted and gotten, have a little faith and trust that the coach is trying to put Trey in the best position possible to succeed.

Yea that same HC said you don't get better at football by not playing football

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

But he's waving his hand so he has to be the primary. Right? RIGHT?

Is the argument that Deebo was the first read? Or that it was a bad decision throwing there?

The original argument is Jimmy didn't throw deep to a wide open Aiyuk.

The primary read, Deebo, play design, pass protection or progressions were never considered because Aiyuk is raising his hand deep in a still pic. And it's Jimmy at QB.