Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:
I didn't say how JG operates, I said watching JG operate. It isn't about watching JG and learning from what he does because "JG does things right". This isn't about JG. Whether JG is good or bad, there is something to learn on just about every play. Trey gets to experience seeing these plays VS far more intelligent and intricate defenses in real time but then they get to go to the tape and dissect, analyze and learn from each play and take something away.

The more Trey sees and learns from a mental standpoint better prepares him for putting it to practice in real time. The less he sees and knows, the more he has to figure out in real time. It's common sense, and it is why you hear these QBs who have had to sit before they were deemed ready to play, claim that it truly helped them a ton.

Downplaying holding a clipboard for a rookie is silly s**t. It's an emotionally driven opinion, I get it though, some folks are tired of JG and are more than ready to see the shiny new toy. Does not mean the kid is ready though, and if Kyle were to play Trey before he is ready and ruins him, not a single fan has to fall on that sword, but Kyle does.

Let Kyle play Trey when Kyle is ready to play Trey. It's his ass not yours or mine and he dang well knows that. This is the best QB prospect Kyle has ever wanted and gotten, have a little faith and trust that the coach is trying to put Trey in the best position possible to succeed.

Yea that same HC said you don't get better at football by not playing football

But he is playing football in practice and on the scout team. That is sharpening him up but putting the theory of learning the play book into his head without the pressure of a real game. So then he can make his mistakes and learn from them without it damaging the team. He needs to know the plays down pat before being thrown into the lions den so they are automatic. Then he can be more situationally aware as he does not have to concentrate on trying to remember complex plays. He just executes while being able to look around and not get killed.

You are keen to see him play. I get that. But be careful what you wish for because if you get your wish he may not play for long before getting broken for good.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Irritated? Why? You can have the play art, Deebo be the #1 vs the look and it was still the wrong decision. There's progressions when #1 is covered no? The CB was all over Deebo and the play

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. OK.

Sherfield is probably a better deep threat right now than him. This ain't Madden.

You're right, I did see Sherfield get open deep too, although it was preseason and a different QB who will actually throw the ball. I've seen all of our WRs get open deep. Weird, I been told by some that we don't have the WRs who can do that, certainly not the "burners" able to do so. What does Madden have to do with anything? You reminding yourself of that after seeing Sanu do it too?

Because, "Why don't we just go deep..." has about six different layers of truth and nobody wants to acknowledge them.

So again, this ain't Madden.

If it was, Kyle might actually go deep too...maybe...big maybe. Nah. LOL

Nice try. "Why don't we just go deep" and six different layers of truth is a different tune then you were singing a week ago. You said we don't have the WRs who can get open deep, specifically "burners" and in this game alone was proven wrong by both Deebo and Sanu. Again don't know why you keep talking about Madden. Maybe it's you that can't acknowledge the truth lol

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Irritated? Why? You can have the play art, Deebo be the #1 vs the look and it was still the wrong decision. There's progressions when #1 is covered no? The CB was all over Deebo and the play

Ehh, not the same. So, the play is designed to go against C2, that's the divide concept. It puts the strong side safety in a horizontal stretch. The play art shows Deebo running a fade vs cloud(C2 squat corner) and a sight adjust to a curl vs C1 with Deebo as the primary and only because he's isolated 1v1 with a corner.

This is the same play Lance threw the contested ball to Aiyuk vs ARI, also got a negated PI on a batted ball - same play. It's a timing throws the qb is to throw thr ball before the receiver stops, which is what happened.

He ran the play the same way I've seen it run for years.

Originally posted by NCommand:
But he's waving his hand so he has to be the primary. Right? RIGHT?

So according to you only the primary should get the ball at all times?

Originally posted by jonnydel:
The safety was following Jimmy's eyes. If he sits in the middle, most likely taken away. It's a product of people not knowing 100% what theyrr looking at. I'm on my phone or I'd post the play art.

JD honestly bro, you don't always have to try to puff that chest like you know more then everyone. I always see comments like "people don't know what they looking at" from you and to be frank that gets irritating cause you better than that. Some of the guys in here that take your word as gospel try and say the same types of things and it's hilarious cause what they say shows otherwise.

So if the safety is following Jimmy's eyes and he led him directly to where the ball is going, this is good how? Not to mention the coverage that CB had on Deebo

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yea that same HC said you don't get better at football by not playing football

Explain Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Irritated? Why? You can have the play art, Deebo be the #1 vs the look and it was still the wrong decision. There's progressions when #1 is covered no? The CB was all over Deebo and the play

Ehh, not the same. So, the play is designed to go against C2, that's the divide concept. It puts the strong side safety in a horizontal stretch. The play art shows Deebo running a fade vs cloud(C2 squat corner) and a sight adjust to a curl vs C1 with Deebo as the primary and only because he's isolated 1v1 with a corner.

This is the same play Lance threw the contested ball to Aiyuk vs ARI, also got a negated PI on a batted ball - same play. It's a timing throws the qb is to throw thr ball before the receiver stops, which is what happened.

He ran the play the same way I've seen it run for years.

So you telling me that no matter what the ball is going there? Aside from a screen play, I've never heard of a play that has one read and the ball goes there no matter what, this is a first for me. I guess Sanu didn't get the correct play call and waved his hands to distract the safety that wasn't there and not looking at him.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:
I didn't say how JG operates, I said watching JG operate. It isn't about watching JG and learning from what he does because "JG does things right". This isn't about JG. Whether JG is good or bad, there is something to learn on just about every play. Trey gets to experience seeing these plays VS far more intelligent and intricate defenses in real time but then they get to go to the tape and dissect, analyze and learn from each play and take something away.

The more Trey sees and learns from a mental standpoint better prepares him for putting it to practice in real time. The less he sees and knows, the more he has to figure out in real time. It's common sense, and it is why you hear these QBs who have had to sit before they were deemed ready to play, claim that it truly helped them a ton.

Downplaying holding a clipboard for a rookie is silly s**t. It's an emotionally driven opinion, I get it though, some folks are tired of JG and are more than ready to see the shiny new toy. Does not mean the kid is ready though, and if Kyle were to play Trey before he is ready and ruins him, not a single fan has to fall on that sword, but Kyle does.

Let Kyle play Trey when Kyle is ready to play Trey. It's his ass not yours or mine and he dang well knows that. This is the best QB prospect Kyle has ever wanted and gotten, have a little faith and trust that the coach is trying to put Trey in the best position possible to succeed.

Yea that same HC said you don't get better at football by not playing football

But he is playing football in practice and on the scout team. That is sharpening him up but putting the theory of learning the play book into his head without the pressure of a real game. So then he can make his mistakes and learn from them without it damaging the team. He needs to know the plays down pat before being thrown into the lions den so they are automatic. Then he can be more situationally aware as he does not have to concentrate on trying to remember complex plays. He just executes while being able to look around and not get killed.

You are keen to see him play. I get that. But be careful what you wish for because if you get your wish he may not play for long before getting broken for good.

Agreed.

If there was only one way to develop a QB, by getting him reps and making them play early on, whether they are ready or not, then why doesn't every coach develop their rookies as such?

Why have we seen some of the best and brightest minds to coach in this league sit their rookie and tell the media explicitly that the kid isn't ready yet? Why would these coaches waste valuable time they could be giving their rookie reps by sitting them?

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by NCommand:
But he's waving his hand so he has to be the primary. Right? RIGHT?

So according to you only the primary should get the ball at all times?

Do you even football? LOL

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Irritated? Why? You can have the play art, Deebo be the #1 vs the look and it was still the wrong decision. There's progressions when #1 is covered no? The CB was all over Deebo and the play

Ehh, not the same. So, the play is designed to go against C2, that's the divide concept. It puts the strong side safety in a horizontal stretch. The play art shows Deebo running a fade vs cloud(C2 squat corner) and a sight adjust to a curl vs C1 with Deebo as the primary and only because he's isolated 1v1 with a corner.

This is the same play Lance threw the contested ball to Aiyuk vs ARI, also got a negated PI on a batted ball - same play. It's a timing throws the qb is to throw thr ball before the receiver stops, which is what happened.

He ran the play the same way I've seen it run for years.

So you telling me that no matter what the ball is going there? Aside from a screen play, I've never heard of a play that has one read and the ball goes there no matter what, this is a first for me. I guess Sanu didn't get the correct play call and waved his hands to distract the safety that wasn't there and not looking at him.

Don't take it as personal or anything. Sorry if it offends you.

But, yes, it is a 1 and only. It's an alert type play. So, you have the concept side vs zone, the route you like with the receiver you want vs man. Vs man-coverage there's not nearly as many progressions as you think. It's usually designed plays with pick/rubs or double move routes.
Think of it like the alternative.

The hope and design is to get a C2 look, but if not upud think Deebo could beat Rhodes on a bad wheel.

I've been consistent in this play, go look in the Aiyuk thread, when Lance made those throws I criticized Aiyuk for not getting better separation.

Look, there are other plays to criticize Garoppolo on amd I'll cover in my breakdown. This one is some reaching by people, IMO.

I'm not meaning to puff my chest out but when you're seeing people on Twitter share this as gospel truth when I know it's not what am I supposed to do, just say, "yep! Horrible decision!"?

Originally posted by NCommand:
The original argument is Jimmy didn't throw deep to a wide open Aiyuk.

The primary read, Deebo, play design, pass protection or progressions were never considered because Aiyuk is raising his hand deep in a still pic. And it's Jimmy at QB.

Lol you combining two different plays into one. That Deebo pass has Sanu open raising his hand. The Aiyuk one is the play that Jimmy rolled out and the ball got tipped at the line and I think was caught anyways.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by NCommand:
But he's waving his hand so he has to be the primary. Right? RIGHT?

So according to you only the primary should get the ball at all times?

Do you even football? LOL

That's what I thought 😘

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Irritated? Why? You can have the play art, Deebo be the #1 vs the look and it was still the wrong decision. There's progressions when #1 is covered no? The CB was all over Deebo and the play

Ehh, not the same. So, the play is designed to go against C2, that's the divide concept. It puts the strong side safety in a horizontal stretch. The play art shows Deebo running a fade vs cloud(C2 squat corner) and a sight adjust to a curl vs C1 with Deebo as the primary and only because he's isolated 1v1 with a corner.

This is the same play Lance threw the contested ball to Aiyuk vs ARI, also got a negated PI on a batted ball - same play. It's a timing throws the qb is to throw thr ball before the receiver stops, which is what happened.

He ran the play the same way I've seen it run for years.

So you telling me that no matter what the ball is going there? Aside from a screen play, I've never heard of a play that has one read and the ball goes there no matter what, this is a first for me. I guess Sanu didn't get the correct play call and waved his hands to distract the safety that wasn't there and not looking at him.

Don't take it as personal or anything. Sorry if it offends you.

But, yes, it is a 1 and only. It's an alert type play. So, you have the concept side vs zone, the route you like with the receiver you want vs man. Vs man-coverage there's not nearly as many progressions as you think. It's usually designed plays with pick/rubs or double move routes.
Think of it like the alternative.

The hope and design is to get a C2 look, but if not upud think Deebo could beat Rhodes on a bad wheel.

I've been consistent in this play, go look in the Aiyuk thread, when Lance made those throws I criticized Aiyuk for not getting better separation.

Look, there are other plays to criticize Garoppolo on amd I'll cover in my breakdown. This one is some reaching by people, IMO.

I'm not meaning to puff my chest out but when you're seeing people on Twitter share this as gospel truth when I know it's not what am I supposed to do, just say, "yep! Horrible decision!"?

Nah I don't take it personal, you are just one of the few here that I respect what you have to say because you know what you are talking about. When you do that, like some others here do often (and they have no clue WTF they talking about) it comes off immature and I hold you in higher regard then that. If what you are saying is true, 1 and only read on that play, then hey learn something new everyday.

"Here's what you say," King told Damon Bruce and Ray Ratto. "You say, 'We're going to play Trey Lance when he's ready. That's what we're going to do. This is about the next 10 to 15 years, not about trying to get us out of a huge hole this year, and perhaps doing more damage to a young player because he just wasn't ready.'

"... I agree that you play Trey Lance when, categorically, he's ready to play, and you know that he's not going to get tremendously set back by playing."

King pointed to the New York Jets' situation. Their rookie quarterback, Zach Wilson, is expected to miss two to four weeks due to a sprained PCL. King feels that maybe the Jets should have followed the same development path as the 49ers but couldn't do that because they didn't have a Garoppolo on the roster. That led to a trade for Joe Flacco following Wilson's injury.

"All I'm saying is you play Trey Lance not because the house is on fire today, and you just don't want to play Jimmy Garoppolo," King continued. "You play Trey Lance when he's ready."

Now, that's not to say that King feels that Shanahan wouldn't love to start Lance regularly. However, the rookie probably isn't far enough in his development to do so.

"You're basically seven weeks and six games into this season," King said. "You have severe doubts about one quarterback, and it almost, I sense, listening to Kyle Shanahan [on Sunday] night, I sense that he really doesn't know what to do about the quarterback situation. He obviously feels that Trey Lance isn't ready, and he doesn't want to put him into a situation before he feels like it's optimal for him to play."

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/151754-peter-king-believes-49ers-handling-trey-lance-correctly/

This is a fair take. I predict that Kyle will start Lance once we're mathematically eliminated.