Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Look, there are other plays to criticize Garoppolo on amd I'll cover in my breakdown. This one is some reaching by people, IMO.

I'm not meaning to puff my chest out but when you're seeing people on Twitter share this as gospel truth when I know it's not what am I supposed to do, just say, "yep! Horrible decision!"?

Ooooh you'll finally start doing that huh?

Here's your Packers game break down...NOT ONE real criticism of Jimmy, if fact you felt you had to defend him toward the end to prove he is playing well.



Yet your whole video purposely ignores plays like these.





It ain't a coincidence Jonny.

Rich and I went back and forth on that Aiyuk one, the Lookie. It's Lookie Asia and its a sight adjust route. Rich should know this. He never responded after I mentioned that to him when he tried to correct me.

And if you're so certain I'm wrong on that,, here's a link where you can take the time to find lookie Asia:

https://www.reddit.com/r/footballstrategy/comments/l2swvp/kyle_shanahan_2016_falcons_playbook/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Per the Dagger, as I've said NUMEROUS times,, my goal is to show overall storylines/why's of games. I showed why we couldn't hit the deep ball, showed why, despite Twitter narrative, you couldn't just put the blame on Jimmy for that game. That missed daggerz we converted thr next play for a 1st down and went on to score. So why would I show that other than to criticize Jimmy? Didn't impact the game.

You think it's just a coincidence that everything I had in my video Kyle talked about that week? After my video came out?

For the dagger, if that were Trey you would do your usual "what I'd like to see Trey do here is bla bla"

Here is the play you sarcastically told me to try to find. Seems like Aiyuk did his job?

I wasn't being sarcastic, lol. You've just had issues with me for years.

I told you to look it up because I was busy cooking dinner for my pregnant wife and then trying to take care of my 17 month old whose had a fever for 2 days and was also working on my video. Just leading you to the source, but whatever.

See the hashes with an arrow on the slant rout? That's the middle of field open/closed sight adjust. If it's open, he runs the slant if it's closed he cuts outside. So, no, I'm not wrong.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Irritated? Why? You can have the play art, Deebo be the #1 vs the look and it was still the wrong decision. There's progressions when #1 is covered no? The CB was all over Deebo and the play

Ehh, not the same. So, the play is designed to go against C2, that's the divide concept. It puts the strong side safety in a horizontal stretch. The play art shows Deebo running a fade vs cloud(C2 squat corner) and a sight adjust to a curl vs C1 with Deebo as the primary and only because he's isolated 1v1 with a corner.

This is the same play Lance threw the contested ball to Aiyuk vs ARI, also got a negated PI on a batted ball - same play. It's a timing throws the qb is to throw thr ball before the receiver stops, which is what happened.

He ran the play the same way I've seen it run for years.

So you telling me that no matter what the ball is going there? Aside from a screen play, I've never heard of a play that has one read and the ball goes there no matter what, this is a first for me. I guess Sanu didn't get the correct play call and waved his hands to distract the safety that wasn't there and not looking at him.

Don't take it as personal or anything. Sorry if it offends you.

But, yes, it is a 1 and only. It's an alert type play. So, you have the concept side vs zone, the route you like with the receiver you want vs man. Vs man-coverage there's not nearly as many progressions as you think. It's usually designed plays with pick/rubs or double move routes.
Think of it like the alternative.

The hope and design is to get a C2 look, but if not upud think Deebo could beat Rhodes on a bad wheel.

I've been consistent in this play, go look in the Aiyuk thread, when Lance made those throws I criticized Aiyuk for not getting better separation.

Look, there are other plays to criticize Garoppolo on amd I'll cover in my breakdown. This one is some reaching by people, IMO.

I'm not meaning to puff my chest out but when you're seeing people on Twitter share this as gospel truth when I know it's not what am I supposed to do, just say, "yep! Horrible decision!"?

Nah I don't take it personal, you are just one of the few here that I respect what you have to say because you know what you are talking about. When you do that, like some others here do often (and they have no clue WTF they talking about) it comes off immature and I hold you in higher regard then that. If what you are saying is true, 1 and only read on that play, then hey learn something new everyday.

Again, just so I make sure I'm communicating early, vs that look on THAT play. If it was a 2 safety look, it's a progression read on the other side that's Sanu 1, Aiyik, 2 and Dwelley 3.

Vs this look, C-1 man, its like an alert-timing throw. Execution was just poor.

I'd give Lance the same grace or any qb for us. I've been saying it all year and after thr ARI game, our guys are not winning separation on the outside.

I just can't believe that there is 1 read and you go to him no matter what on that play. I don't care about grace given to whatever QB for whatever team, just never heard of a play call like that; that isn't some type of screen or rub route

That's what alerts are. Rodgers was doing that vs us when he saw press man, it was an alert to the fade.

Is there any adjustments Jimmy can make post-snap, if he sees half the defense flow pre-snap to his only route on the alert?

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Look, there are other plays to criticize Garoppolo on amd I'll cover in my breakdown. This one is some reaching by people, IMO.

I'm not meaning to puff my chest out but when you're seeing people on Twitter share this as gospel truth when I know it's not what am I supposed to do, just say, "yep! Horrible decision!"?

Ooooh you'll finally start doing that huh?

Here's your Packers game break down...NOT ONE real criticism of Jimmy, if fact you felt you had to defend him toward the end to prove he is playing well.



Yet your whole video purposely ignores plays like these.





It ain't a coincidence Jonny.

Rich and I went back and forth on that Aiyuk one, the Lookie. It's Lookie Asia and its a sight adjust route. Rich should know this. He never responded after I mentioned that to him when he tried to correct me.

And if you're so certain I'm wrong on that,, here's a link where you can take the time to find lookie Asia:

https://www.reddit.com/r/footballstrategy/comments/l2swvp/kyle_shanahan_2016_falcons_playbook/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Per the Dagger, as I've said NUMEROUS times,, my goal is to show overall storylines/why's of games. I showed why we couldn't hit the deep ball, showed why, despite Twitter narrative, you couldn't just put the blame on Jimmy for that game. That missed daggerz we converted thr next play for a 1st down and went on to score. So why would I show that other than to criticize Jimmy? Didn't impact the game.

You think it's just a coincidence that everything I had in my video Kyle talked about that week? After my video came out?

For the dagger, if that were Trey you would do your usual "what I'd like to see Trey do here is bla bla"

Here is the play you sarcastically told me to try to find. Seems like Aiyuk did his job?

I wasn't being sarcastic, lol. You've just had issues with me for years.

I told you to look it up because I was busy cooking dinner for my pregnant wife and then trying to take care of my 17 month old whose had a fever for 2 days and was also working on my video. Just leading you to the source, but whatever.

See the hashes with an arrow on the slant rout? That's the middle of field open/closed sight adjust. If it's open, he runs the slant if it's closed he cuts outside. So, no, I'm not wrong.

What's the whole "Attack Technique: If cannot cross the defender's face -breakout" about?

Play again for the new page.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Look, there are other plays to criticize Garoppolo on amd I'll cover in my breakdown. This one is some reaching by people, IMO.

I'm not meaning to puff my chest out but when you're seeing people on Twitter share this as gospel truth when I know it's not what am I supposed to do, just say, "yep! Horrible decision!"?

Ooooh you'll finally start doing that huh?

Here's your Packers game break down...NOT ONE real criticism of Jimmy, if fact you felt you had to defend him toward the end to prove he is playing well.



Yet your whole video purposely ignores plays like these.





It ain't a coincidence Jonny.

Rich and I went back and forth on that Aiyuk one, the Lookie. It's Lookie Asia and its a sight adjust route. Rich should know this. He never responded after I mentioned that to him when he tried to correct me.

And if you're so certain I'm wrong on that,, here's a link where you can take the time to find lookie Asia:

https://www.reddit.com/r/footballstrategy/comments/l2swvp/kyle_shanahan_2016_falcons_playbook/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Per the Dagger, as I've said NUMEROUS times,, my goal is to show overall storylines/why's of games. I showed why we couldn't hit the deep ball, showed why, despite Twitter narrative, you couldn't just put the blame on Jimmy for that game. That missed daggerz we converted thr next play for a 1st down and went on to score. So why would I show that other than to criticize Jimmy? Didn't impact the game.

You think it's just a coincidence that everything I had in my video Kyle talked about that week? After my video came out?

For the dagger, if that were Trey you would do your usual "what I'd like to see Trey do here is bla bla"

Here is the play you sarcastically told me to try to find. Seems like Aiyuk did his job?

I wasn't being sarcastic, lol. You've just had issues with me for years.

I told you to look it up because I was busy cooking dinner for my pregnant wife and then trying to take care of my 17 month old whose had a fever for 2 days and was also working on my video. Just leading you to the source, but whatever.

See the hashes with an arrow on the slant rout? That's the middle of field open/closed sight adjust. If it's open, he runs the slant if it's closed he cuts outside. So, no, I'm not wrong.

What's the whole "Attack Technique: If cannot cross the defender's face -breakout" about?

Play again for the new page.

So, that's vs 2-man if the defender takes hard inside leverage, there's also a sight adjust there.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I just can't believe that there is 1 read and you go to him no matter what on that play. I don't care about grace given to whatever QB for whatever team, just never heard of a play call like that; that isn't some type of screen or rub route

Yeah either throw it to him while completely covered or throw the ball away. Makes sense right?

I mean if I'm being honest, I'm not one of those that takes everything Jonny says as gospel. Have you ever heard of that? Anyone? I'm being sincere and not trying to discredit what he's saying

Niners running Pop-Warner plays?? Other than RB screens and shovel passes there's no such thing as a one read only play and gotta throw to him regardless IMO. Although some RB screens have a 2nd option, not all does. I at least never heard of a one read only pass play playing in high school, college or any semi-pro leagues I've played in or coached in. There's always an out read or a hot read on any situation, every play have at least two options incase the first one isn't there. I respect JD's analysis on a lot of things in here but this one I don't agree with. This is the NFL we're talking about. I would hate to be a WR if my playbook have one read plays, what's the point of running out if the QB only has one read and it's not you?...lol

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Ah, I see that we're still doing the weekly post-loss "Jimmy is actually playing perfectly, it's everyone else that sucks" thing.

My issue is that Johnny acknowledges his videos are based on proving or disproving narratives not actually grading players and yet he gets defensive when you say his videos are biased. In my opinion there is implicit bias anytime you don't show the full game film and select certain plays to review. Has nothing to do with the content creator but all his videos are technically biased on purpose.

Also from my understanding, Johnny doesn't get into grading players on the forum either… just disproving narratives with his videos once again. So when people ask him about Jimmy… he just points to everything else that's going wrong on the team because he's made a video for it and kinda dodges answering that question in great detail since it's his videos so he does what he wants, and that's everything but grade Jimmy G.

LOL, how much time do y'all think I got to go game by game and grade players? Screw that. I have time to post when I don't have a ton else going on or killing a few minutes here or there. Why don't you guys go through and grade players extensively post every game?

I find it quite fascinating. I have almost 770k view on my youtube and haven't really ever been called, "biased" except by opposing fanbases when I've done scouting videos. But, a handful of guys in the WZ throw that term around all the time.

I literally never get called that in any other social media outlet/network/forum.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Ah, I see that we're still doing the weekly post-loss "Jimmy is actually playing perfectly, it's everyone else that sucks" thing.

My issue is that Johnny acknowledges his videos are based on proving or disproving narratives not actually grading players and yet he gets defensive when you say his videos are biased. In my opinion there is implicit bias anytime you don't show the full game film and select certain plays to review. Has nothing to do with the content creator but all his videos are technically biased on purpose.

Also from my understanding, Johnny doesn't get into grading players on the forum either… just disproving narratives with his videos once again. So when people ask him about Jimmy… he just points to everything else that's going wrong on the team because he's made a video for it and kinda dodges answering that question in great detail since it's his videos so he does what he wants, and that's everything but grade Jimmy G.

except by opposing fanbases

...

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I just can't believe that there is 1 read and you go to him no matter what on that play. I don't care about grace given to whatever QB for whatever team, just never heard of a play call like that; that isn't some type of screen or rub route

Yeah either throw it to him while completely covered or throw the ball away. Makes sense right?

I mean if I'm being honest, I'm not one of those that takes everything Jonny says as gospel. Have you ever heard of that? Anyone? I'm being sincere and not trying to discredit what he's saying

Niners running Pop-Warner plays?? Other than RB screens and shovel passes there's no such thing as a one read only play and gotta throw to him regardless IMO. Although some RB screens have a 2nd option, not all does. I at least never heard of a one read only pass play playing in high school, college or any semi-pro leagues I've played in or coached in. There's always an out read or a hot read on any situation, every play have at least two options incase the first one isn't there. I respect JD's analysis on a lot of things in here but this one I don't agree with. This is the NFL we're talking about. I would hate to be a WR if my playbook have one read plays, what's the point of running out if the QB only has one read and it's not you?...lol

Ok, I'm obviously not communicating this correctly. For that I do apologize.
I'm meaning, you have plays designed to go to someone or target a route vs certain looks. For example, the slant/flat vs C-1 man Lurk, the throw is to the flat route. The outside receiver has to see it, understand it and run his slant to interfere with the flat receiver's man. If that play is vs zone, it's a key read. If it's 2 man, it's the opposite C-1(how most coaches do it).

In this case, Deebo is #1. The only way you don't throw that is if he's doubled.
Think of the tight sideline catch that Aiyuk made vs ARI that a lot people, and rightfully so, oooed and ahhhhed about Trey over. It was a great throw. Same situation though. press-man on the outside. You throw your receiver open. You don't hesitate, you throw to a spot. That ball HAS to be out before the receiver turns around.

The ball his Deebo in the chest. C'mon. If that's Lance, y'all are screaming about Deebo needing to hold on to the ball.

QB's do this all the time. Russ does it, Brady does it, Rodgers does it. They see press-man they know who they're going to before the ball is snapped and it's going to be a timing throw.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Look, there are other plays to criticize Garoppolo on amd I'll cover in my breakdown. This one is some reaching by people, IMO.

I'm not meaning to puff my chest out but when you're seeing people on Twitter share this as gospel truth when I know it's not what am I supposed to do, just say, "yep! Horrible decision!"?

Ooooh you'll finally start doing that huh?

Here's your Packers game break down...NOT ONE real criticism of Jimmy, if fact you felt you had to defend him toward the end to prove he is playing well.



Yet your whole video purposely ignores plays like these.





It ain't a coincidence Jonny.

Rich and I went back and forth on that Aiyuk one, the Lookie. It's Lookie Asia and its a sight adjust route. Rich should know this. He never responded after I mentioned that to him when he tried to correct me.

And if you're so certain I'm wrong on that,, here's a link where you can take the time to find lookie Asia:

https://www.reddit.com/r/footballstrategy/comments/l2swvp/kyle_shanahan_2016_falcons_playbook/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Per the Dagger, as I've said NUMEROUS times,, my goal is to show overall storylines/why's of games. I showed why we couldn't hit the deep ball, showed why, despite Twitter narrative, you couldn't just put the blame on Jimmy for that game. That missed daggerz we converted thr next play for a 1st down and went on to score. So why would I show that other than to criticize Jimmy? Didn't impact the game.

You think it's just a coincidence that everything I had in my video Kyle talked about that week? After my video came out?

For the dagger, if that were Trey you would do your usual "what I'd like to see Trey do here is bla bla"

Here is the play you sarcastically told me to try to find. Seems like Aiyuk did his job?

I wasn't being sarcastic, lol. You've just had issues with me for years.

I told you to look it up because I was busy cooking dinner for my pregnant wife and then trying to take care of my 17 month old whose had a fever for 2 days and was also working on my video. Just leading you to the source, but whatever.

See the hashes with an arrow on the slant rout? That's the middle of field open/closed sight adjust. If it's open, he runs the slant if it's closed he cuts outside. So, no, I'm not wrong.

What's the whole "Attack Technique: If cannot cross the defender's face -breakout" about?

Play again for the new page.

So, that's vs 2-man if the defender takes hard inside leverage, there's also a sight adjust there.

What did you expect Aiyuk to do there?

Dp.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
The ball his Deebo in the chest. C'mon. If that's Lance, y'all are screaming about Deebo needing to hold on to the ball.

QB's do this all the time. Russ does it, Brady does it, Rodgers does it. They see press-man they know who they're going to before the ball is snapped and it's going to be a timing throw.

Doesn't the ball also hit the defender's hands at the same time, since he's stuck to him like glue pretty much the entire route?

Originally posted by jonnydel:

The ball his Deebo in the chest. C'mon. If that's Lance, y'all are screaming about Deebo needing to hold on to the ball.

The ball hit the defender's hand/arm..which was infront of Deebo's chest.

And no I wouldn't blame Deebo for that, if Lance threw the ball. But apparently you would/did, if Jimmy threw it.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

The ball his Deebo in the chest. C'mon. If that's Lance, y'all are screaming about Deebo needing to hold on to the ball.

The ball hit the defender's hand/arm..which was infront of Deebo's chest.

And no I wouldn't blame Deebo for that, if Lance threw the ball. But apparently you would/did, if Jimmy threw it.

I would blame Deebo if Lance threw it. Just like I blamed Aiyuk for not getting more separation when Lance threw it. Not sure why you're hellbent on trying to prove something about me. You've had issues with me for years and I still don't get where it all started. Seems odd.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
What did you expect Aiyuk to do there?

Curl out - that's what Jimmy threw - he was expecting the same thing