Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:
He's not playing meaningful football at practice...he's not even running the same offense, if he's pretending to be the other QB on scout drills. He's not running our offense. So what mistakes are you talking about? What is he learning? He's in the film room watching another QB. Wow that's super helpful.

I keep asking this question and no one will answer it...so do you think Lance would have looked better week 5 vs AZ if he....got all the first string reps through TC/OTAs, preseason, practices and started week 1? He's been "developing" aka not playing football for 5 months and then got tossed into the game week 5....do you think him sitting that long helped him vs AZ or would him playing football for the past 5 months with the starters and in games have helped him week 5?

Also the whole start him to soon can make him broken is a BS excuse. Kyle, if he's a good coach isn't gonna throw the whole playbook at him and will give him s**t he can run...they will gradually develop the playbook to him and his skill set.

Originally posted by Goatie:
Not all teams have the luxury of having a competent starter who knows the playbook of an eccentric coach like the back of his hand while the golden child can be spoon feed the system over a year or two.

No point banging your head against the wall. NY is militant in his point of view and listens to nothing but the echo chamber that is his own head.

Originally posted by Franchise408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
lol oh I am...explain then. So if Lance didn't get all the reps for the past 5+ months and played live football he would actually be WORSE is week 5 then getting a weeks worth of starting reps?



For real you can't be objective...it's legit impossible for you.

You, commenting on literally anyone else's objectivity?

You're the Joe Shasky of this forum.

how many alt accounts do you have lmao

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Is there a QB in this still pic?

Try to act like that was caused by pressure. Lmao the distance you guys will go:


He had PLENTY of room to make either throw.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He just doesn't look ready when he has been in there. He can't make his reads. He throws an inaccurate ball. He's so confused out there. He's a real good athlete. Just nowhere near ready right now.

1. Jimmy misses reads as well and he's in his 8th season in the NFL

2. Jimmy has his share of inaccurate passes but with a lot less arm talent

3. How is he "so confused out there"?

It's one thing if we're winning games and Jimmy isn't making critical mistakes. I like the guy, I wish he was playing much better but he's not. I don't believe for one second that with our talent throwing Lance out there would be a bad thing for his development.

If he's making mistakes (and he will) at least he gets a chance to learn from them and grow from them. Jimmy's time to learn from his mistakes is over. He is what he is.

We're 2-4. If we want to make a run we need something to bring energy out there. I hate to say it but that's not Jimmy. Not if he can't move the chains consistently. That was his biggest asset IMO and we've been terrible on 3rd down with him as QB. So what is he offering now?

Jimmy is light years further ahead on reads. He had the ball slip out in the rain on a few. That can happen. His reads are way ahead of Lance. It's not close.

So great at reading the defense.

Im getting irritated at this still being shared. I have the play art, Deebo is #1 vs this look.

Post it, along with the first page and the discussion about how progressions work in the system (or whatever information there is about them, and I know it's there, because I've had a Walsh, Holmgren and Mike Shanahan book myself). In the NFL — in COLLEGE and sometimes HIGH SCHOOL — the progression can be flipped pre-snap by what you see.

EDIT — and even if Kyle Shanahan doesn't have pre-snap adjustments to reads where the QB can choose a side to start from like many NFL offenses have had through time, Jimmy should have STILL known the first progression was going to require throwing into a tight window based on the the presnap read, and that the Sanu route was going to face AT WORST man on man from a linebacker or safety, and at best, he would have known it could have been cover 3 with the deep safety having vacated the middle presnap, and essentially the same scenario would happen — at worst — which is a linebacker or safety on Sanu.

It turns out not even that occurred, as no one covered Sanu at all.

Good QBs exploit defenses, and don't just blindly throw to the first read because it's the first read. Good QBs know presnap if the SECOND read might be a better place to start.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Ah, I see that we're still doing the weekly post-loss "Jimmy is actually playing perfectly, it's everyone else that sucks" thing.

My issue is that Johnny acknowledges his videos are based on proving or disproving narratives not actually grading players and yet he gets defensive when you say his videos are biased. In my opinion there is implicit bias anytime you don't show the full game film and select certain plays to review. Has nothing to do with the content creator but all his videos are technically biased on purpose.

Also from my understanding, Johnny doesn't get into grading players on the forum either… just disproving narratives with his videos once again. So when people ask him about Jimmy… he just points to everything else that's going wrong on the team because he's made a video for it and kinda dodges answering that question in great detail since it's his videos so he does what he wants, and that's everything but grade Jimmy G.

LOL, how much time do y'all think I got to go game by game and grade players? Screw that. I have time to post when I don't have a ton else going on or killing a few minutes here or there. Why don't you guys go through and grade players extensively post every game?

I find it quite fascinating. I have almost 770k view on my youtube and haven't really ever been called, "biased" except by opposing fanbases when I've done scouting videos. But, a handful of guys in the WZ throw that term around all the time.

I literally never get called that in any other social media outlet/network/forum.

I don't have time to make videos myself. Ironically I've made videos in the past and when I posted them here I was harrassed by posters so I kinda know how it feels. I stopped posting on this forum for years after that btw.

So I'm not saying I don't appreciate your content… I do. I've always said I appreciate the work you do but I'm never going to stop playing devils advocate and challenge your narratives.

I'm just saying a narrative based video is a biased video. There's no way you can claim it's not.

You can continue to point to your view counts or who's sharing/watching your videos but that doesn't change the fact that they are biased. Just like anyone else's video would be.

It's your content you can make whatever the f**k you want to make. Just don't act surprised when people say your videos are biased. If they're saying you're biased and they are not… then they're incorrect.

I guess that might be me not communicating that well as I, admittedly, get defensive about the work I put in; just because I know my own thought processes, what I'm looking for and how I'm judging things.

When I mean address narratives - you have to understand I'm making videos for a LOT more than the WZ the past couple years. That's not meant that I'm looking down on the place - it wasn't my intention when I started the video format, it just happened that it kind of went there. That's when I realized there was a much bigger world of 49ers content seekers than was here and they were interested in what I was offering. Like, I found out after about 10 videos were posted on reddit without my knowledge, that it was a big hit there - and then twitter, then some sub topics in the NFL reddit - before they temporarily banned me for posting my own content and told me I had to post 10:1 on other stuff for every single comment I made even on my own threads.

But, reddit, for example, is a community of over 158k. So, when I say, "narratives" I'm not taking a side and proving one side right or wrong. I'm gauging the interest, because once you hit certain milestones as a content creator, there is a definite incentive to make things people are interested in.

For example, after the Seattle game, I made a conscientious choice, I could review the whole game or take a look at every single throw of Trey Lance, since it was his first real game action after being the #3 Overall pick. I couldn't do both, didn't have the time. I chose Lance because I figured more people were interested in that than seeing how the defense gave up 3 TD's in the 2nd half.

Turns out, I was right. That video is my most watched video ever. Over 42k views so far. The Aiyuk video - there's been a ton of talk about Aiyuk. I knew what I was seeing on film, so I presented it because it was a topic many people were interested in. Over 22k views - my 2nd most watched video this year and like 3rd or 4th all time. My game review of the Eagles? Around 7k. So, if there's a topic of general interest among fans, I'm going to speak to it from what I see. Not from a place where I have made a judgement and then argue my point - that's where the confusion may be, at least I'm hoping it is.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I guess that might be me not communicating that well as I, admittedly, get defensive about the work I put in; just because I know my own thought processes, what I'm looking for and how I'm judging things.

When I mean address narratives - you have to understand I'm making videos for a LOT more than the WZ the past couple years. That's not meant that I'm looking down on the place - it wasn't my intention when I started the video format, it just happened that it kind of went there. That's when I realized there was a much bigger world of 49ers content seekers than was here and they were interested in what I was offering. Like, I found out after about 10 videos were posted on reddit without my knowledge, that it was a big hit there - and then twitter, then some sub topics in the NFL reddit - before they temporarily banned me for posting my own content and told me I had to post 10:1 on other stuff for every single comment I made even on my own threads.

But, reddit, for example, is a community of over 158k. So, when I say, "narratives" I'm not taking a side and proving one side right or wrong. I'm gauging the interest, because once you hit certain milestones as a content creator, there is a definite incentive to make things people are interested in.

For example, after the Seattle game, I made a conscientious choice, I could review the whole game or take a look at every single throw of Trey Lance, since it was his first real game action after being the #3 Overall pick. I couldn't do both, didn't have the time. I chose Lance because I figured more people were interested in that than seeing how the defense gave up 3 TD's in the 2nd half.

Turns out, I was right. That video is my most watched video ever. Over 42k views so far. The Aiyuk video - there's been a ton of talk about Aiyuk. I knew what I was seeing on film, so I presented it because it was a topic many people were interested in. Over 22k views - my 2nd most watched video this year and like 3rd or 4th all time. My game review of the Eagles? Around 7k. So, if there's a topic of general interest among fans, I'm going to speak to it from what I see. Not from a place where I have made a judgement and then argue my point - that's where the confusion may be, at least I'm hoping it is.

That's right jd. The webzone is the smallest audience of the three media sites you mentioned (reddit, youtube, twitter). You should gauge the interest of the fanbase based off those other sites, not webzone.

If we had traded Jimmy and used that extra money to sign 2 or 3 other free agents such as CB for instance and gave Trey all 1st team reps throughout training camp would we actually be worse than our 2-4 record right now? Worse case scenario is we have the same record but Trey being much further along in his development. I was ok with Jimmy starting this season ,aslong as we were winning. The truth is Jimmy is not good enough to carry a team through injuries and other struggles. He needs everything around him to be very good. Needs a top 5 defense, Needs a top 5 running game, Needs a decent Oline, And needs everyone to be healthy.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Fields has really improved since he's started the last several games.

You watch his 1st game…he actually has lol. Good try though

Originally posted by Scooper1:
No point banging your head against the wall. NY is militant in his point of view and listens to nothing but the echo chamber that is his own head.

Hahaha oh okay...

So yeah you two are right...there's no chance in hell if Lance got all the snaps the past 5+ months and played with the first string team all season that he would have looked any better then he did week 5 vs AZ. IN FACT according to you guys, he would look worse because he didn't sit.

OH and yeah totally only a luxury for teams to be able to sit a QB for a yr, I mean they invest high end draft capital in the most important position in sports, are banking on a game-changing QB that can literally change a franchise, BUT they don't have the "luxury" to sit them...you know if sitting them is the best approach to getting success out of them.



I mean I guess Banks/Sermon/Thomas are just gonna be rock stars next yr because they're getting red shirt too.

AND NO I listen to plenty of people in here, one's who opinion I value and actually learn from.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by bzborow1:
Unless the coaching staff thinks Lance is so bad it would be embarrassing to put him out there, adding to the questionable decisions this regime has made.

i dont think you understand severity of trey's knee injury, they dodged a huge bullet that it wasn't worse. they're gonna take it easy on him.

Do you understand the severity of Trey's knee injury? Do you have access to information about his diagnosis that no one else does?

Just going off what Kyle said

"Trey's coming off a pretty big injury and we're gonna keep bringing him along and keep getting him prepared as good as you can be to always be ready to come in and help on the plays that we ask him to do."

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Franchise408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
lol oh I am...explain then. So if Lance didn't get all the reps for the past 5+ months and played live football he would actually be WORSE is week 5 then getting a weeks worth of starting reps?



For real you can't be objective...it's legit impossible for you.

You, commenting on literally anyone else's objectivity?

You're the Joe Shasky of this forum.

how many alt accounts do you have lmao

First off I have no clue who Joe Shasky is so that "insult" means nothing to me.

And yeah sounds like a certain poster, that get's called out all the time. Just more junk in here

Originally posted by genus49:
Justin Fields playing behind that trash OL doesn't mean Trey Lance is equally terrible behind ours.

I mean people seem to forget how well our offense moved the ball against Arizona. Yes we failed to score points on many drives and had our lowest point total of the season but not by a large margin.

Kyle also dialed up some questionable playcalls IMO in that game. He needs to be more trusting that Lance can run the plays that are called...if he cannot then he will learn from them. Can't just use the kid as a running back.

I certainly feel that if we had Kittle for that game and Mitchell was healthy enough for a bigger workload then we would've been able to finish our drives much better.

I thought Jimmy would use Lance being drafted as a way to play better but he's just not getting it done. We're 2-4...what exactly are we holding out for?

I imagine we go to Chicago and with them being beat up we may be able to win that game and then get a look at Garoppolo vs Arizona. To me that will be the deciding game for him. We'll have an evaluation against the same team even though Jimmy will likely have Kittle back and hopefully a healthy Mitchell to work with in a home game(not that it means much for us these days).

None of that matters, the people who said he should sit and Jimmy (their hero) should play will NOT admit they were wrong. Regardless of how bad Jimmy is playing or the thought that maybe playing football will get you better at football. They made their minds up and saying anything different would make them look silly or whatever. Never would they say you know what you're right maybe Trey should have gotten more snaps, maybe he should have been the starter, maybe we'd be further along in his development.

Literally got a poster saying he wouldn't have been better vs AZ if he was the guy getting snaps and starting day 1. Seriously? Then people get butt hurt if you point out how bias they are on a topic.

People are stubborn.

Originally posted by Heroism:

amazing mspaint skillz bro

Originally posted by thl408:
amazing mspaint skillz bro

you saying I wasted my time getting this graphic design degree?!