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Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

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Dec 6, 2021 at 1:37 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Gonna bookmark this one 👍🏻👍🏻. Hope you're right…. Will be here waiting if you're wrong 🤣🤣🤣.

I don't really understand the point of the video… he's basically saying that maybe we'd be 6-6 with Trey at the helm? If there's no benefit to our record with Trey at QB why start him this year?

Benefits of sitting him a year:

1) focus on learning the offense instead of executing the offense
2) learn from Jimmy's mistakes
3) Jimmy as a training partner (as opposed to a new backup that also doesn't know the offense)
4) get up to speed on the game of football, specifically NFL football (been dormant a while)
5) and most importantly, a full year immune to our toxic fan base 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Benefits of starting him as a rookie:

1) we "may" be 6-6 right now.

I bet Zach Wilson would love a redshirt year about now lol.
Dec 6, 2021 at 1:48 PM
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Gonna bookmark this one 👍🏻👍🏻. Hope you're right…. Will be here waiting if you're wrong 🤣🤣🤣.

I don't really understand the point of the video… he's basically saying that maybe we'd be 6-6 with Trey at the helm? If there's no benefit to our record with Trey at QB why start him this year?

Benefits of sitting him a year:

1) focus on learning the offense instead of executing the offense
2) learn from Jimmy's mistakes
3) Jimmy as a training partner (as opposed to a new backup that also doesn't know the offense)
4) get up to speed on the game of football, specifically NFL football (been dormant a while)
5) and most importantly, a full year immune to our toxic fan base 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Benefits of starting him as a rookie:

1) we "may" be 6-6 right now.

I bet Zach Wilson would love a redshirt year about now lol.

I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.
Dec 6, 2021 at 1:51 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Dec 6, 2021 at 2:00 PM
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.

Yeah I can see your point for sure, but I certainly look at it a little differently. In my humble opinion, unless there is a quantifiable reason to start the rookie, you don't. Especially in shannys complicated offense (and especially with shanny as your micromanager…. I mean coach) Even using hindsight, it's safe to say we wouldn't be in a meaningfully different position with Trey as our starter. We'd be on the playoff fringe somewhere. And what would we really gain from starting him?

We've got jimmy on the team. We've admitted Trey only looked "serviceable"….. I see zero reason to start Trey this year. Like, absolute zero.

Just because we like to emphasize "you don't trade that much capital for anything other than a day one starter" it doesn't make it true. It can be true, it may be true… but it sure as f**k doesn't have to be true.

if I was Kyle I'd be doing it exactly the same way. Keep my injury blanket on the field while teaching up the rookie… all while maintaining (according to us) exactly the same record 👍🏻👍🏻
[ Edited by 5thSFG on Dec 6, 2021 at 2:01 PM ]
Dec 6, 2021 at 2:17 PM
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Gonna bookmark this one 👍🏻👍🏻. Hope you're right…. Will be here waiting if you're wrong 🤣🤣🤣.

I don't really understand the point of the video… he's basically saying that maybe we'd be 6-6 with Trey at the helm? If there's no benefit to our record with Trey at QB why start him this year?

Benefits of sitting him a year:

1) focus on learning the offense instead of executing the offense
2) learn from Jimmy's mistakes
3) Jimmy as a training partner (as opposed to a new backup that also doesn't know the offense)
4) get up to speed on the game of football, specifically NFL football (been dormant a while)
5) and most importantly, a full year immune to our toxic fan base 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Benefits of starting him as a rookie:

1) we "may" be 6-6 right now.

I bet Zach Wilson would love a redshirt year about now lol.

I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.

Do you remember all offseason how people continually said we can't start Lance because we'd be wasting the season?

When in reality, the biggest risk to "waste" this season all along was to start Jimmy and not have a winning team knowing he's not part of the future. While essentially keeping Lance a rookie with no experience.

That's the gamble that we made and we only have a handful of weeks to determine the final outcome of it.
Dec 6, 2021 at 2:37 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Been saying this too
Dec 6, 2021 at 2:59 PM
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Gonna bookmark this one 👍🏻👍🏻. Hope you're right…. Will be here waiting if you're wrong 🤣🤣🤣.

I don't really understand the point of the video… he's basically saying that maybe we'd be 6-6 with Trey at the helm? If there's no benefit to our record with Trey at QB why start him this year?

Benefits of sitting him a year:

1) focus on learning the offense instead of executing the offense
2) learn from Jimmy's mistakes
3) Jimmy as a training partner (as opposed to a new backup that also doesn't know the offense)
4) get up to speed on the game of football, specifically NFL football (been dormant a while)
5) and most importantly, a full year immune to our toxic fan base 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Benefits of starting him as a rookie:

1) we "may" be 6-6 right now.

I bet Zach Wilson would love a redshirt year about now lol.

I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.

Do you remember all offseason how people continually said we can't start Lance because we'd be wasting the season?

When in reality, the biggest risk to "waste" this season all along was to start Jimmy and not have a winning team knowing he's not part of the future. While essentially keeping Lance a rookie with no experience.

That's the gamble that we made and we only have a handful of weeks to determine the final outcome of it.

In terms of his development I much prefer sitting him. Still learns the offense. All the benefits with none of the adverse consequences.

in terms of would he be able to push this offense to the next level THIS SEASON…. From what I saw probably not (but who knows). But to me the only reason to start him this year would be to make us markedly better right now. Anyone's guess If he could.
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:24 PM
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Gonna bookmark this one 👍🏻👍🏻. Hope you're right…. Will be here waiting if you're wrong 🤣🤣🤣.

I don't really understand the point of the video… he's basically saying that maybe we'd be 6-6 with Trey at the helm? If there's no benefit to our record with Trey at QB why start him this year?

Benefits of sitting him a year:

1) focus on learning the offense instead of executing the offense
2) learn from Jimmy's mistakes
3) Jimmy as a training partner (as opposed to a new backup that also doesn't know the offense)
4) get up to speed on the game of football, specifically NFL football (been dormant a while)
5) and most importantly, a full year immune to our toxic fan base 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Benefits of starting him as a rookie:

1) we "may" be 6-6 right now.

I bet Zach Wilson would love a redshirt year about now lol.

I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.

Do you remember all offseason how people continually said we can't start Lance because we'd be wasting the season?

When in reality, the biggest risk to "waste" this season all along was to start Jimmy and not have a winning team knowing he's not part of the future. While essentially keeping Lance a rookie with no experience.

That's the gamble that we made and we only have a handful of weeks to determine the final outcome of it.

In terms of his development I much prefer sitting him. Still learns the offense. All the benefits with none of the adverse consequences.

in terms of would he be able to push this offense to the next level THIS SEASON…. From what I saw probably not (but who knows). But to me the only reason to start him this year would be to make us markedly better right now. Anyone's guess If he could.

The theory for Trey is the team already relies on running non stop for success

A young QB gets a ton of help from a running game

As a passer we already see KS schemes guys wide open.

Can Trey find them and hit them? Deebo Samuel route from earlier is an example of yes

The final step is using his arm and finding the deep targets instead of underneath routes

When the SEA game film is reviewed you will see the missed opportunities

Nobody knows if Trey will hit those though. Every QB misses wide open reads every game.

The belief is Trey will produce more points because he has more options
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Originally posted by NYniner85:

Been saying this

Been saying this too

A lot of us have been saying this.
Once you give up as much capital as you did, keeping Jimmy NEVER MADE SENSE. I do agree that his presence stunts Trey's development. Sorry . . . try as I might I just cannot agree that putting the development of your immediate future on a back burner is a sound move. It's as mind numbingly stupid as many of the other decisions that the brain trust have taken. Each one building on the futility of the one taken before it. Everyone was expecting some smart adjustments once Trey was drafted; it just didn't happen.
More importantly, what's not acknowledged enough is that keeping the lame duck, seriously compromised the ability to really shore up the weaknesses in depth of the team's roster. And the team is seriously thin in that department. That's all water under the bridge now; you're never going to recoup that. Jimmy is paid top 5 money; HE'S NOT WORTH IT. Rappaport was saying that they were offered a 3rd for him. If that was true, the front office was criminally culpable for not going for it. You recoup all that cap capital to really BUILD a contender, plus a high draft choice. WTF? In their defense, I don't believe that the team was offered any 3rd rounder. Still, they needed to get rid of Garoppolo (my preference) or keep him for much less. If he baulked, allow him to test the market; he wasn't going to get anything close to what he's being paid. MAYBE a third of that.
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:32 PM
Next year Jimmy will be gone and we'll have more money to spend on weak areas, so theoretically the team should be better than right now.

Having said that, if what Crock is saying is correct, next year we should be at least 6-6 or even better at this point in the season.
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:54 PM
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.

Yeah I can see your point for sure, but I certainly look at it a little differently. In my humble opinion, unless there is a quantifiable reason to start the rookie, you don't. Especially in shannys complicated offense (and especially with shanny as your micromanager…. I mean coach) Even using hindsight, it's safe to say we wouldn't be in a meaningfully different position with Trey as our starter. We'd be on the playoff fringe somewhere. And what would we really gain from starting him?

We've got jimmy on the team. We've admitted Trey only looked "serviceable"….. I see zero reason to start Trey this year. Like, absolute zero.

Just because we like to emphasize "you don't trade that much capital for anything other than a day one starter" it doesn't make it true. It can be true, it may be true… but it sure as f**k doesn't have to be true.

if I was Kyle I'd be doing it exactly the same way. Keep my injury blanket on the field while teaching up the rookie… all while maintaining (according to us) exactly the same record 👍🏻👍🏻
The problem with both of these arguments is that they seem to propose that Jimmy is the reason that the team has 5 losses under his leadership. An honest review of most of those games would show that there were breakdowns all across the board in each if them. Jimmy had put them ahead with 37 seconds left against GB where special teams and the defense couldn't close the deal.

About the only loss you can lay more directly at his feet is yesterday's game where his 2 picks didn't help the team out at all. Even then he had them in a position to tie the score at the end. I think the plan they had was the right one. I just don't think anyone in that building expected them to get off to as rough a start as they did.

I am not in the predicting business so I have no idea how next season will work out but I suspect that all arrows are pointing up for Lance to takeover. And then we'll see what happens.
Dec 6, 2021 at 4:20 PM
Originally posted by 49ers81:
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.

Yeah I can see your point for sure, but I certainly look at it a little differently. In my humble opinion, unless there is a quantifiable reason to start the rookie, you don't. Especially in shannys complicated offense (and especially with shanny as your micromanager…. I mean coach) Even using hindsight, it's safe to say we wouldn't be in a meaningfully different position with Trey as our starter. We'd be on the playoff fringe somewhere. And what would we really gain from starting him?

We've got jimmy on the team. We've admitted Trey only looked "serviceable"….. I see zero reason to start Trey this year. Like, absolute zero.

Just because we like to emphasize "you don't trade that much capital for anything other than a day one starter" it doesn't make it true. It can be true, it may be true… but it sure as f**k doesn't have to be true.

if I was Kyle I'd be doing it exactly the same way. Keep my injury blanket on the field while teaching up the rookie… all while maintaining (according to us) exactly the same record 👍🏻👍🏻
The problem with both of these arguments is that they seem to propose that Jimmy is the reason that the team has 5 losses under his leadership. An honest review of most of those games would show that there were breakdowns all across the board in each if them. Jimmy had put them ahead with 37 seconds left against GB where special teams and the defense couldn't close the deal.

About the only loss you can lay more directly at his feet is yesterday's game where his 2 picks didn't help the team out at all. Even then he had them in a position to tie the score at the end. I think the plan they had was the right one. I just don't think anyone in that building expected them to get off to as rough a start as they did.

I am not in the predicting business so I have no idea how next season will work out but I suspect that all arrows are pointing up for Lance to takeover. And then we'll see what happens.

You could literally pick any NFL game and make the case that it wasn't solely the QBs fault for the loss.

Jimmy was 100% part of the problem against GB. I really hate the "Jimmy had the team in position to win" or "Jimmy did enough to win" when he was clearly one of the reasons we were trailing (down 17-0 with multiple: and outs) and fumbled the ball away with a chance to take the lead. Doing enough to win implies Jimmy did his job and for a QB who makes more money than most QBs in the NFL, he certainly did not live up to that standard.


Dec 6, 2021 at 4:34 PM
Originally posted by 49ers81:
Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Originally posted by JoeBart324:
I think it is more this: the whole reason to even keep Jimmy on the team after drafting Lance was to have another dominant run like 2019 with a QB who knows the system. Make a deep playoff run with Jimmy as one last hurrah and then ship him off for a first rounder, making the capital used to get Lance a little more palatable. There is no situation where a team trades away that much draft capital for a QB if they thought the current QB on the roster was the dude to take the team into the future. Keeping Jimmy was a gamble the entire time in an effort to get back some draft capital.

Given where the team is now, that seems like a plan that backfired. And then we watched Lance start against the Cardinals and he was serviceable, much like Jimmy. So the general point now is, if Jimmy is an average QB on a .500 team, why even bother continuing to start him?

just my thoughts as someone who absolutely wants Jimmy to be successful.

Yeah I can see your point for sure, but I certainly look at it a little differently. In my humble opinion, unless there is a quantifiable reason to start the rookie, you don't. Especially in shannys complicated offense (and especially with shanny as your micromanager…. I mean coach) Even using hindsight, it's safe to say we wouldn't be in a meaningfully different position with Trey as our starter. We'd be on the playoff fringe somewhere. And what would we really gain from starting him?

We've got jimmy on the team. We've admitted Trey only looked "serviceable"….. I see zero reason to start Trey this year. Like, absolute zero.

Just because we like to emphasize "you don't trade that much capital for anything other than a day one starter" it doesn't make it true. It can be true, it may be true… but it sure as f**k doesn't have to be true.

if I was Kyle I'd be doing it exactly the same way. Keep my injury blanket on the field while teaching up the rookie… all while maintaining (according to us) exactly the same record 👍🏻👍🏻
The problem with both of these arguments is that they seem to propose that Jimmy is the reason that the team has 5 losses under his leadership. An honest review of most of those games would show that there were breakdowns all across the board in each if them. Jimmy had put them ahead with 37 seconds left against GB where special teams and the defense couldn't close the deal.

About the only loss you can lay more directly at his feet is yesterday's game where his 2 picks didn't help the team out at all. Even then he had them in a position to tie the score at the end. I think the plan they had was the right one. I just don't think anyone in that building expected them to get off to as rough a start as they did.

I am not in the predicting business so I have no idea how next season will work out but I suspect that all arrows are pointing up for Lance to takeover. And then we'll see what happens.

I don't think you quite understand my position because I agree with you. Our points don't conflict.
Dec 6, 2021 at 4:36 PM

Who's fault is it that it's been a month Kyle you fake ass piece of s**t? This was an important game.

I'm losing patience with all this spinning from Kyle lately just to not hurt Jimmy's feelings.

Again you want to b******t, you'll get treated like a b******ter.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Dec 6, 2021 at 4:36 PM ]
Dec 6, 2021 at 4:39 PM
Originally posted by Afrikan:

Who's fault is it that it's been a month Kyle you fake ass piece of s**t? This was an important game.

I'm losing patience with all this spinning from Kyle lately just to not hurt Jimmy's feelings.

Again you want to b******t, you'll get treated like a b******ter.

To be fair, your post assumes Kyle is being fake with why he hasn't played TL and that he is spinning to not hurt JGs feelers.

So it appears that you are doing exactly what you accuse him of, b******tting.
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