Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 9erson3:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Isn't wanting to see Trey start (week 1) or today instant gratification?

Can't speak for all but for me I wanted him in for growth for the future. Not so much win now. So no, not instant gratification.

Therein lies the problem. We were pretty well set for a really deep run in playoffs this yr and to start a kid as green as Trey would have really been taking a giant step backwards by KS and JL. Everything is a lot clearer now, but initially, i thot we'd take whoever at the #13 slot… fields, Trey, Mack. As it has turned out (and appeared initially) Mack was best bet for helping this yr and backing up JG in case of another season lost to injury. Sure, ceiling was way lower.

F.O was caught between getting an excellent backup vs getting an excellent talent, and they chose the latter. Problem there was then we didn't have an adequate backup for a deep run in playoffs. Trey''s single game of read once and GO was a deja vu of Kap. And once kyle saw that, he couldn't allow Trey to continue a horrible habit like that because then….he would start out with unfixable bad habits and his high ceiling ends up negatoid.

So this was the decision, but knowing he was inexperienced, and a risk but high potential, FO jumped, not to miss out on a potential Mahomes. Thing is they really should have been looking at him as a contributor in 2023, not 2021 nor 2022. And that makes the 3 firsts look kinda iffy.

I pray we got it right. But to date, i have gone backwards on that. Add that in to Jmmy going from top flite QB last 4 of 6 games, to having a less than stellar game (altho numbers looked good), frankly he wasn't good enough.

No new ground plowed here, but between coaching (fantastic games to WTF games) and talent acquisition some 4+/4 and other 1+/ 4+ i has been a wild, uneven and bumpy ride. The lingering question remains…what do we really have , and altho usually a fantastic OC, kyle has been uneven too. Why? Who the hell knows. It just seems we are walking on a newly frozen lake and with each step the ice cracks a bit more. Result? Nobody has any idea what is coming ….NEXT week…..But that is just my take.

Originally posted by Tigerlaw:

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Any critical thinker can see numerous benefits from sitting him a year, for him and Kyle.

not saying sitting him is more beneficial than playing him, just noting how silly it is to dig in one side of this argument.

There were merits to both plans before the season started.

Unfortunately we seem to be falling flat on our face with our chosen course of action.

Keeping JG and his 20+ million cap hit was to make a strong SB push. We knowingly delayed Trey development cycle for that chance. We also hoped strong JG play would grt a high pick in a trade.

6-6 record is not what we thought that plan would get us. Trey could have seen more game action and had development bumps out of the way. Worst case is he has those struggles next year and potentially damages playoff odds.

0 play time is odd.

Even Joe Montana had specific packages while he was being developed.

They definitely tried to have their cake and eat it too.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
It has been five years of this regime with one winning season.

I expect the team to win every year at this point. It is what good teams do five years into a regime.

They aren't going to get a pass for four more years.

100%. Winning seasons vs. losing seasons at this point.

6-6 right now...really hoping this team with its talent can put together some consistent winning football over these last five games.

If we lose against Cinci our playoff chances are done, in which case Lance needs to start the rest of the season.

Originally posted by 49ers81:
And what you continually fail to grasp is that the team went into the season with what they believed were Super Bowl aspirations. Lance was NEVER going to start this year under any circumstance short of Jimmy being injured or playing so horribly that they were out of the playoff picture by week eight. And yet week after week after week you come in here with the same tired argument.

Wilson, Lawrence and maybe Fields are playing and developing on teams that probably had no realistic hope of making the playoffs this year so they are out there taking their lumps and learning by their mistakes time will tell if that is the right approach. The NFL is littered with the broken careers of rookie QB's who were thrown into the fire and took such a beating that they never recovered. Mac Jones seems to have landed in the perfect spot for him and even if he has already reached his ceiling he is doing every thing that system requires of him to be successful and we will see how long that lasts

Lance and the 49ers were in a completely different situation. They didn't have to try and develop a rookie QB, with extremely limited experience, on what they thought was a Super Bowl caliber roster that had a QB on it that, you know, had already taken them to the Super Bowl. I swear its like a broken record in here with some of you guys. Do you think the other posters somehow missed your point the first 3,287 times you made it.

Holy s**t I KNOW THIS! I've said I KNOW THIS since before the season started....so save me the what I fail to grasp crap. Most teams go into the season with SB aspirations...guess what they were WRONG. They thought their overpaid avg QB would mask all the issues we had in the secondary and lacking depth really everywhere. Welp they were wrong. They drafted a bunch of players that they SAID they didn't plan on them being real contributors, I mean seriously? We were counting on often injured players to...waiting for it, not get injured for once. Welp that was wrong too. Overall was I completely wrong in my take before the season started? I don't think I was...look at who are RT, CBs, WRs, and EDGE rushers are right now. That's not a SB squad IMO. What I wanted was Jimmy to take a pay cut to get more cap space because what is currently happening.

ALSO It was NEVER Lance needs to start W1...I read the tea leaves and saw the plan.

I've been talking about the development process in general with a QB and what might be the right way to go about it. THAT HAS BEEN my debate for months.

I'm also saying you got people in here saying red shirt him because of Mahomes. Like that's what will happen in 2022, just because AND that's stupid. You're setting up unrealistic expectations for him by saying that.

You clearly missing the whole point of my debate on this subject and are arguing about something I'm not talking about. I was fine with Jimmy starting, it was a debate on how to develop a QB WHICH are different topics.

But since we're talking about it.... we're 13 weeks into the season and 6-6. Do you think this is a SB roster? Do you think maybe just possibly if Lance got every starting rep from day 1 that he might be more prepared to be the starter vs getting next to nothing for half a yr? Do you think he's magically gonna be ready to roll in 2022 OR are you fully accepting that he will still be a rookie that will make rookie mistakes, especially one that hasn't played meaningful football for over 2 yrs?

Again figure out my point before you reply to it...for the 3,287th time.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Again figure out my point before you reply to it...for the 3,287th time.

Wait, I'm unclear on your stance here. Could you repeat that, please? LOL

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by 9erson3:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Isn't wanting to see Trey start (week 1) or today instant gratification?

Can't speak for all but for me I wanted him in for growth for the future. Not so much win now. So no, not instant gratification.

Therein lies the problem. We were pretty well set for a really deep run in playoffs this yr and to start a kid as green as Trey would have really been taking a giant step backwards by KS and JL. Everything is a lot clearer now, but initially, i thot we'd take whoever at the #13 slot… fields, Trey, Mack. As it has turned out (and appeared initially) Mack was best bet for helping this yr and backing up JG in case of another season lost to injury. Sure, ceiling was way lower.

F.O was caught between getting an excellent backup vs getting an excellent talent, and they chose the latter. Problem there was then we didn't have an adequate backup for a deep run in playoffs. Trey''s single game of read once and GO was a deja vu of Kap. And once kyle saw that, he couldn't allow Trey to continue a horrible habit like that because then….he would start out with unfixable bad habits and his high ceiling ends up negatoid.

So this was the decision, but knowing he was inexperienced, and a risk but high potential, FO jumped, not to miss out on a potential Mahomes. Thing is they really should have been looking at him as a contributor in 2023, not 2021 nor 2022. And that makes the 3 firsts look kinda iffy.

I pray we got it right. But to date, i have gone backwards on that. Add that in to Jmmy going from top flite QB last 4 of 6 games, to having a less than stellar game (altho numbers looked good), frankly he wasn't good enough.

No new ground plowed here, but between coaching (fantastic games to WTF games) and talent acquisition some 4+/4 and other 1+/ 4+ i has been a wild, uneven and bumpy ride. The lingering question remains…what do we really have , and altho usually a fantastic OC, kyle has been uneven too. Why? Who the hell knows. It just seems we are walking on a newly frozen lake and with each step the ice cracks a bit more. Result? Nobody has any idea what is coming ….NEXT week…..But that is just my take.

Damn, did Kyle tell you all of this over dinner?

Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO. Yup.

What's funny is NY posted a video of Crocker yesterday sharing the same mindset but in his very own podcast, said, there's no way you start Lance now. You ride or die with Garoppolo the rest of the way. They made their decision so stick with it until the end.

And I've said start Jimmy....go look at the Lance thread once he was draft, people wanted to trade Jimmy and I said no. I wanted him to take a pay cut to make the overall roster better BECAUSE wait for it, we didn't have a SB roster in my mind. I mean does it look like a SB roster right now? f**k no.

Go look at my two mock drafts...did I say cut Jimmy after planning on drafting Lance/Fields? Nope.

I said once Jimmy was on the active roster W1 he was the starter...they made their bed with him and gave him that cash.

MY POINT was how you should develop a rookie QB. I don't think sitting him for a full year after he hasn't played football for a full year is the best route....I also think looking back at it, now that it's W13 that yes we probably could have been around 6-6 (like Crock said) with Lance playing AND he would have gotten super important snaps.

Ya'll are debating about something I'm not really debating and I've said that many times....you talk about me only reading a sentence of your comments, once again you do the same thing lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO. Yup.

What's funny is NY posted a video of Crocker yesterday sharing the same mindset but in his very own podcast, said, there's no way you start Lance now. You ride or die with Garoppolo the rest of the way. They made their decision so stick with it until the end.

And I've said start Jimmy....go look at the Lance thread once he was draft, people wanted to trade Jimmy and I said no. I wanted him to take a pay cut to make the overall roster better BECAUSE wait for it, we didn't have a SB roster in my mind. I mean does it look like a SB roster right now? f**k no.

Go look at my two mock drafts...did I say cut Jimmy after planning on drafting Lance/Fields? Nope.

I said once Jimmy was on the active roster W1 he was the starter...they made their bed with him and gave him that cash.

MY POINT was how you should develop a rookie QB. I don't think sitting him for a full year after he hasn't played football for a full year is the best route....I also think looking back at it, now that it's W13 that yes we probably could have been around 6-6 (like Crock said) with Lance playing AND he would have gotten super important snaps.

Ya'll are debating about something I'm not really debating and I've said that many times....you talk about me only reading a sentence of your comments, once again you do the same thing lol.

Do you disagree with Crock now that Trey shouldn't start now going forward?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wait, I'm unclear on your stance here. Could you repeat that, please? LOL

You clearly don't know my stance because you're debating something different and have been...actually you're not even debating just complaining about something that I'm not talking about.

Here all break it down for you real simple.

1. Jimmy starting fine, wanted him to take a pay cut. Talked about other options
2. Best way for a rookie QB to develop is playing (getting all reps since TC). This has been my debate.
3. now we're 13 weeks into it, we probably could be 6-6 with Lance Like Crock said.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO. Yup.

What's funny is NY posted a video of Crocker yesterday sharing the same mindset but in his very own podcast, said, there's no way you start Lance now. You ride or die with Garoppolo the rest of the way. They made their decision so stick with it until the end.

And I've said start Jimmy....go look at the Lance thread once he was draft, people wanted to trade Jimmy and I said no. I wanted him to take a pay cut to make the overall roster better BECAUSE wait for it, we didn't have a SB roster in my mind. I mean does it look like a SB roster right now? f**k no.

Go look at my two mock drafts...did I say cut Jimmy after planning on drafting Lance/Fields? Nope.

I said once Jimmy was on the active roster W1 he was the starter...they made their bed with him and gave him that cash.

MY POINT was how you should develop a rookie QB. I don't think sitting him for a full year after he hasn't played football for a full year is the best route....I also think looking back at it, now that it's W13 that yes we probably could have been around 6-6 (like Crock said) with Lance playing AND he would have gotten super important snaps.

Ya'll are debating about something I'm not really debating and I've said that many times....you talk about me only reading a sentence of your comments, once again you do the same thing lol.

Do you disagree with Crock now that Trey shouldn't start now going forward?

No I agree with Crock. If Trey was gonna start he should have had all the reps in TC from now...he didn't get that so tossing him out mid-season is a no go for me...they've made their bed with Jimmy and committed to red shirting Lance this far into the season.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LMAO. Yup.

What's funny is NY posted a video of Crocker yesterday sharing the same mindset but in his very own podcast, said, there's no way you start Lance now. You ride or die with Garoppolo the rest of the way. They made their decision so stick with it until the end.

And I've said start Jimmy....go look at the Lance thread once he was draft, people wanted to trade Jimmy and I said no. I wanted him to take a pay cut to make the overall roster better BECAUSE wait for it, we didn't have a SB roster in my mind. I mean does it look like a SB roster right now? f**k no.

Go look at my two mock drafts...did I say cut Jimmy after planning on drafting Lance/Fields? Nope.

I said once Jimmy was on the active roster W1 he was the starter...they made their bed with him and gave him that cash.

MY POINT was how you should develop a rookie QB. I don't think sitting him for a full year after he hasn't played football for a full year is the best route....I also think looking back at it, now that it's W13 that yes we probably could have been around 6-6 (like Crock said) with Lance playing AND he would have gotten super important snaps.

Ya'll are debating about something I'm not really debating and I've said that many times....you talk about me only reading a sentence of your comments, once again you do the same thing lol.

Do you disagree with Crock now that Trey shouldn't start now going forward?

No I agree with Crock. If Trey was gonna start he should have had all the reps in TC from now...he didn't get that so tossing him out mid-season is a no go for me...they've made their bed with Jimmy and committed to red shirting Lance this far into the season.

Gotcha.

That's kind of funny because I'd actually feel much better about starting him now than early. But I do get all the different perspectives on this topic including the route they went.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wait, I'm unclear on your stance here. Could you repeat that, please? LOL

You clearly don't know my stance because you're debating something different and have been...actually you're not even debating just complaining about something that I'm not talking about.

Here all break it down for you real simple.

1. Jimmy starting fine, wanted him to take a pay cut. Talked about other options
2. Best way for a rookie QB to develop is playing (getting all reps since TC). This has been my debate.
3. now we're 13 weeks into it, we probably could be 6-6 with Lance Like Crock said.

Obviously, I was just joking given our most recent conversation.

But thanks for the outline!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wait, I'm unclear on your stance here. Could you repeat that, please? LOL

You clearly don't know my stance because you're debating something different and have been...actually you're not even debating just complaining about something that I'm not talking about.

Here all break it down for you real simple.

1. Jimmy starting fine, wanted him to take a pay cut. Talked about other options
2. Best way for a rookie QB to develop is playing (getting all reps since TC). This has been my debate.
3. now we're 13 weeks into it, we probably could be 6-6 with Lance Like Crock said.

Obviously, I was just joking given our most recent conversation.

But thanks for the outline!

Oh I know, I don't really take things too personal in here (with you)

Originally posted by NCommand:
Gotcha.

That's kind of funny because I'd actually feel much better about starting him now than early. But I do get all the different perspectives on this topic including the route they went.

Yeah I just feel like getting all the training camp reps with the 1st string is so important going into the season. It's hard to get it all figured out in short weekly in-season practices. People seem to think it's just 11 on 11 practices every day or something...and that's completely false.