Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I am in full support of Trey Lance. But I for one was hoping that we drafted Justin Fields. And from the looks of things I think he would have been the better choice. I just didn't think the amount of development Lance would need is way too much to be trading 3 draft picks for. But Lance is our guy and I support him. I'm not too sure about the Mahomes comparison though. Time will tell.

To answer your questions:

Do you think this is a SB roster?

When healthy? Yes. But since when has this team been healthy?

Do you think maybe just possibly if Lance got every starting rep from day 1 that he might be more prepared to be the starter vs getting next to nothing for half a yr?

Yes, he would be. But what would be our record? Like I said, I think Fields would have been a better choice. With this roster and Fields at QB we'd have at least 8 wins at this point. But for a SB-ready team I don't think it would be smart to start a project QB. Lance needs serious time to develop (which is why he should not have been drafted #3 overall). Jimmy G, with all his warts, was the smarter option to start the season.

Now, having said that, I do think that Lance needs more playing time. I think had Jimmy G. been pulled in the 3rd quarter of the Seattle game we might have won the game. But if we lose against Cinci Lance needs to be starting the rest of the season, because I can't see this team making the playoffs if we get one more loss. Either we win out or start the Lance development project in earnest.

Do you think he's magically gonna be ready to roll in 2022 OR are you fully accepting that he will still be a rookie that will make rookie mistakes, especially one that hasn't played meaningful football for over 2 yrs?

He better be ready to start in 2022, otherwise Shanny and Lynch will be in trouble, and rightfully so! To give up 3 1sts for a guy needing more than a year to develop is downright draft mis-management. There's simply no other way to put it. He's gonna make mistakes, there's no way of avoiding that. But you mortgage major draft future to move up to #3 overall for a guy. That alone suggest that he can play day one. But on a SB-ready team with a QB who's gotten you to the SB before the smart move would be to redshirt the rookie unless proven otherwise.

Given what we've given up to get Lance it would be unacceptable if he weren't ready to start in 2022. If that is the case then it was a mistake to draft him at that spot, and Shanny has a lot of explaining to do. But since we drafted him we have to accept what he comes with. We can't wait two seasons until he's "ready", not for what we paid to get him. Shanny will just have to accept that a great deal of on-the-job training will have to take place. He's not gonna be able to ask the fanbase to accept, essentially, a 2 year project at QB that costed 3 firsts.

I'm not comparing him to Mahomes...some people in here are when it comes to sitting for a year then coming into the league and lighting it up the following year. I'm saying that's a unfair expectation on Lance. Mahomes is a special talent what he did isn't normal.

I also wanted Fields, but had no issue with going Lance. We have no idea how much development he needs to determine anything at this point.

Yeah I never thought a 6 win team was a SB roster...the only position they upgraded at was center in the off season. This wasn't a run it back squad IMO now you can see what we're dealing with

Who knows what our record would be...6-6 isn't great right now regardless. Lance can hand the ball off 40x a game all the same. Saying Lance needs "serious" development is a subjective take...you or I don't really know that. IMO What he really needs is to play.

He he's gonna start...that's not the debate. People seem to think he's gonna be some all-star for the simple fact that he played scout QB all yr....Developing IS PLAYING he's not doing that...so 2022 is basically his rookie developmental year, regardless of what anyone is trying to say.

Well you're gonna have to accept that a rookie QB is gonna take time...at this point draft picks and what they spent mean nothing. Those picks could turn into another Solomon Thomas, it's all about getting it right with Lance end of the day. Once he actually get's on the field it might take more than 2022 to get that s**t figured out in part because he basically lost a season in 2021 because Kyle thought he could win a SB with Jimmy.

People wanted to forgo a season to develop Lance to try and win it all with Jimmy...doesn't look like that's gonna happen SO now you gotta deal with the process of getting Lance where he needs to be...fans can't have your cake and eat it too

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Great listen…go to 32 mins and listen to crock, a former NFL player who plays played on the scout team

LOCKED ON 49ERS with @eric_crocker

▫Big picture where are the 49ers right now?
▫Bad Jimmy showed up in Seattle, is it time for Kyle to start Trey?

📽https://t.co/qMJU9uLbjZ
🎙https://t.co/WRSAAN8JLo pic.twitter.com/ES0UJx02I0

— Brian Peacock (@BDPeacock) December 7, 2021

Jimmy didn't really cost us that game. Our special teams did.

Considering that we only lost by 1 score, a lot of things cost us the game and Jimmy's awful interceptions and misses certainly didn't help.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I'm not selling anything, I'm just questioning the value of pursuing mediocrity if it is at the expense of Lance's and the other rookies' development.

Lance can develop into a good QB whether he sits this year or not, but it is fair to question whether or not sitting the entire year will slow that development down. Despite the number of times that guys like Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady etc. get brought up as success stories for guys that sat their rookie year, out of that group, only Mahomes was great right away and it's impossible to know how good those guys would have been in year 2 if they had played in year 1 versus sitting. If Lance goes through some first-year starter bumps next year, will our 8-9/9-8 record and early playoff exit this season have been worth it (especially since we don't really know if our record with Lance would have been all that different than what it is with Jimmy).

It's a fair question and I'm not sure why people are getting so uptight about it?

I attached the latest locked on 49ers pod, where Crocky (former NFL DB) talks about what a scout QB actually does during the season and how it's not really some great developing tool.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I'm not selling anything, I'm just questioning the value of pursuing mediocrity if it is at the expense of Lance's and the other rookies' development.

Lance can develop into a good QB whether he sits this year or not, but it is fair to question whether or not sitting the entire year will slow that development down. Despite the number of times that guys like Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady etc. get brought up as success stories for guys that sat their rookie year, out of that group, only Mahomes was great right away and it's impossible to know how good those guys would have been in year 2 if they had played in year 1 versus sitting. If Lance goes through some first-year starter bumps next year, will our 8-9/9-8 record and early playoff exit this season have been worth it (especially since we don't really know if our record with Lance would have been all that different than what it is with Jimmy).

Not buying it. You have been anti Jimmy pro Trey from day one.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It's a fair question and I'm not sure why people are getting so uptight about it?

I attached the latest locked on 49ers pod, where Crocky (former NFL DB) talks about what a scout QB actually does during the season and how it's not really some great developing tool.

Crock is one man's opinion though he is entitled to it.

I prefer to trust in the opinions of those who have been or are around Trey daily when it comes to what is truly best for Trey. Both Kyle and TL's former QB guru agree that TL should sit. These are men who have a far better grasp on where Trey is at and how to best help him going forward than Crocky.

If Kyle believes Trey should start on Sunday, I am good with that. If he feels Trey should not start until 2022, I am good with that too. I trust the process, I understand Kyle has his ass on the line here and will do what is best for Trey, this is the first time he truly got to choose his guy for the future.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
He better be ready to start in 2022, otherwise Shanny and Lynch will be in trouble, and rightfully so! To give up 3 1sts for a guy needing more than a year to develop is downright draft mis-management. There's simply no other way to put it. He's gonna make mistakes, there's no way of avoiding that. But you mortgage major draft future to move up to #3 overall for a guy. That alone suggest that he can play day one. But on a SB-ready team with a QB who's gotten you to the SB before the smart move would be to redshirt the rookie unless proven otherwise.

Given what we've given up to get Lance it would be unacceptable if he weren't ready to start in 2022. If that is the case then it was a mistake to draft him at that spot, and Shanny has a lot of explaining to do. But since we drafted him we have to accept what he comes with. We can't wait two seasons until he's "ready", not for what we paid to get him. Shanny will just have to accept that a great deal of on-the-job training will have to take place. He's not gonna be able to ask the fanbase to accept, essentially, a 2 year project at QB that costed 3 firsts.

If you agree with all the bolded, then wouldnt the underlined be the opposite of what you should believe?

No, not really. In the underline I'm understanding the initial plan to redshirt Lance. The thinking was that you have a SB-ready team with the QB who last got you the the SB. I can definitely understand re-shirting a rookie QB for a season in this situation. Rookie QB's, no matter how good, don't win SB's. So when you have a talented team poised for a SB push you go with the guy that last got you there. I can see if the team was in a re-building mindset, but that understandably wasn't the mindset of anybody about this team. You don't hand the keys of a SB-ready franchise to an unproven rookie unless you have to. And in our case we didn't have to.

My point is that given what we've spent to get him it would be absolutely unacceptable - inexcusable - for Lance to NOT be ready to start in 2022. If he's "not ready" in 2022 - tough. He starts and we live with what he brings. Shanny needs to understand that Lance is not gonna study his way around rookie mistakes, he has to play those out. No team can avoid rookie QB growing pains. Period, end of . . . If Lance is god-awful after a redshirt season, if Shanny can't use his creativity around the skills that Lance has, Shanny is gonna have a whole lot to explain. Imma go further - if Lance don't live up to expectations Shanny's job is serious jeopardy, and it should be. You mortgage serious draft capital to get him. You redshirt him a whole season. There's no reason that Lance should not be ready to take over in 2022. If Lance cannot operate the offence next season the responsibility rests solely on Shanny.

If we lose against Cinci there no reason Jimmy should be starting at all for the remainder of the season. I'm of the opinion that Lance should have replaced Jimmy midway through the 3rd quarter of the Seattle game. I suspect that Shanny didn't pull Jimmy because had Lance pulled that game out Shanny would have had a hard time explaining why Jimmy should be the starter going forward.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Considering that we only lost by 1 score, a lot of things cost us the game and Jimmy's awful interceptions and misses certainly didn't help.

That, and playing 3rd string CBs, backup LBs, and missing our co-best offensive weapon (Deebo).

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It's a fair question and I'm not sure why people are getting so uptight about it?

I attached the latest locked on 49ers pod, where Crocky (former NFL DB) talks about what a scout QB actually does during the season and how it's not really some great developing tool.

Crock is one man's opinion though he is entitled to it.

I prefer to trust in the opinions of those who have been or are around Trey daily when it comes to what is truly best for Trey. Both Kyle and TL's former QB guru agree that TL should sit. These are men who have a far better grasp on where Trey is at and how to best help him going forward than Crocky.

If Kyle believes Trey should start on Sunday, I am good with that. If he feels Trey should not start until 2022, I am good with that too. I trust the process, I understand Kyle has his ass on the line here and will do what is best for Trey, this is the first time he truly got to choose his guy for the future.

Cock ACTUALLY played scout team in the NFL...he explains what that entails. It's not rocket science, you're pretending to be another teams QB. YOU run the plays that team has shown on film and the 1st team practices against you and the backups....it's scripted, all of it. You are told where to throw the ball regardless of what you see in coverage because "that's the throw Kirk would take vs that coverage based off film" being on the scout team is about making the 1st string defense ready to play the other team, not improve you overall. It's not even just crock talking about it...past players have said the same thing.

At this point what's he gonna learn? explain to me please... He doesn't get any 1st string reps or get to run SF's actual offense...outside of any packages they have in place for Trey (which has been nothing so far). He get no live reps where he has to digest coverages and make the right reads.

I mean what do you expect the coaching staff to say? Nah he's just picking his nose and pretending to be this weeks QB? Of course they're gonna paint it as some great developmental tool and he's killing it being someone else this week. Kyle even said he knows the playbook BUT he's lacking reps running the offense, well no s**t. People don't want him to play because lack of reps and the only way he's gonna get better is with more reps.

Hey great Job Trey, you're helping the defense get prepared for this weeks opponent, let's see how it goes pretending to be Burrow.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Considering that we only lost by 1 score, a lot of things cost us the game and Jimmy's awful interceptions and misses certainly didn't help.

That, and playing 3rd string CBs, backup LBs, and missing our co-best offensive weapon (Deebo).

Even more reason for our top end QB to step up and show us why he's a top 5 paid player this yr...no?

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I'm not selling anything, I'm just questioning the value of pursuing mediocrity if it is at the expense of Lance's and the other rookies' development.

Lance can develop into a good QB whether he sits this year or not, but it is fair to question whether or not sitting the entire year will slow that development down. Despite the number of times that guys like Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady etc. get brought up as success stories for guys that sat their rookie year, out of that group, only Mahomes was great right away and it's impossible to know how good those guys would have been in year 2 if they had played in year 1 versus sitting. If Lance goes through some first-year starter bumps next year, will our 8-9/9-8 record and early playoff exit this season have been worth it (especially since we don't really know if our record with Lance would have been all that different than what it is with Jimmy).

Not buying it. You have been anti Jimmy pro Trey from day one.

We should all be pro Trey. I'm also not "anti-Jimmy", but I didn't believe the pre-season hype that this was a Super Bowl team with Jimmy at QB and nothing that has happened since then has changed my mind. We already knew exactly who Jimmy was as a QB coming into this season and that's who've we've seen week in and week out. He's a QB you can win with if you have a great team around him, but he's not consistent and you can't rely on him. That's not "anti-Jimmy", it's just an assessment of him from what we've seen. I wanted him to succeed, because I want to win and we're stuck with him this season for better or worse because Kyle chose not to lay the groundwork for Trey to be an effective player this year.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
No, not really. In the underline I'm understanding the initial plan to redshirt Lance. The thinking was that you have a SB-ready team with the QB who last got you the the SB. I can definitely understand re-shirting a rookie QB for a season in this situation. Rookie QB's, no matter how good, don't win SB's. So when you have a talented team poised for a SB push you go with the guy that last got you there. I can see if the team was in a re-building mindset, but that understandably wasn't the mindset of anybody about this team. You don't hand the keys of a SB-ready franchise to an unproven rookie unless you have to. And in our case we didn't have to.

My point is that given what we've spent to get him it would be absolutely unacceptable - inexcusable - for Lance to NOT be ready to start in 2022. If he's "not ready" in 2022 - tough. He starts and we live with what he brings. Shanny needs to understand that Lance is not gonna study his way around rookie mistakes, he has to play those out. No team can avoid rookie QB growing pains. Period, end of . . . If Lance is god-awful after a redshirt season, if Shanny can't use his creativity around the skills that Lance has, Shanny is gonna have a whole lot to explain. Imma go further - if Lance don't live up to expectations Shanny's job is serious jeopardy, and it should be. You mortgage serious draft capital to get him. You redshirt him a whole season. There's no reason that Lance should not be ready to take over in 2022. If Lance cannot operate the offence next season the responsibility rests solely on Shanny.

If we lose against Cinci there no reason Jimmy should be starting at all for the remainder of the season. I'm of the opinion that Lance should have replaced Jimmy midway through the 3rd quarter of the Seattle game. I suspect that Shanny didn't pull Jimmy because had Lance pulled that game out Shanny would have had a hard time explaining why Jimmy should be the starter going forward.

I hear what you are saying. I just dont agree. Lance's biggest issue is his lack of experience. So redshirting him (which provides him with ZERO experience), and then saying "it would be unacceptable if he isnt ready next year" are contradictory thoughts. I totally understand the reasoning to stick with Jimmy, but doing so doesnt help Lance out in the long run. Playing would have. I personally would have made Lance the starter after the bye, but I know that wasnt realistic for Kyle.

If Lance stinks it up next season, then Kyle should be on the hotseat....I agree. But for me, he would be on the hotseat because he decided to ignore 2021 in the sense of preparing his QBotF to be ready for 2022. If Lance is horrible in 2023, I will be on board with getting rid of Kyle and Lynch.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I hear what you are saying. I just dont agree. Lance's biggest issue is his lack of experience. So redshirting him (which provides him with ZERO experience), and then saying "it would be unacceptable if he isnt ready next year" are contradictory thoughts. I totally understand the reasoning to stick with Jimmy, but doing so doesnt help Lance out in the long run. Playing would have. I personally would have made Lance the starter after the bye, but I know that wasnt realistic for Kyle.

If Lance stinks it up next season, then Kyle should be on the hotseat....I agree. But for me, he would be on the hotseat because he decided to ignore 2021 in the sense of preparing his QBotF to be ready for 2022. If Lance is horrible in 2023, I will be on board with getting rid of Kyle and Lynch.

Thank you!

People don't want him to play because lack of reps, but the only way he's gonna get better is with reps...at some point fans gotta deal with that dilemma in their head and understand there's a process to all of it. Instant gratification can't be a thing here. Sorry fans.

IMO this was the year to do just that...look at all the horrible teams in the NFC. We got a bunch of .500 and sub .500 teams fighting for a playoff spot right now. We could still be in the hunt for a playoff spot AND Lance would be getting those vastly important reps. SF could still be running the ball a ton...probably even more with Lance. NOW we're gonna go into 2022 with a kid that hasn't played legit football in 2 years and spent a whole season on the scout team AND fans will think he's mahomes/Rogers/Brady just cause lol. So dumb

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It's a fair question and I'm not sure why people are getting so uptight about it?

I attached the latest locked on 49ers pod, where Crocky (former NFL DB) talks about what a scout QB actually does during the season and how it's not really some great developing tool.

Crock is one man's opinion though he is entitled to it.

I prefer to trust in the opinions of those who have been or are around Trey daily when it comes to what is truly best for Trey. Both Kyle and TL's former QB guru agree that TL should sit. These are men who have a far better grasp on where Trey is at and how to best help him going forward than Crocky.

If Kyle believes Trey should start on Sunday, I am good with that. If he feels Trey should not start until 2022, I am good with that too. I trust the process, I understand Kyle has his ass on the line here and will do what is best for Trey, this is the first time he truly got to choose his guy for the future.

Cock ACTUALLY played scout team in the NFL...he explains what that entails. It's not rocket science, you're pretending to be another teams QB. YOU run the plays that team has shown on film and the 1st team practices against you and the backups....it's scripted, all of it. You are told where to throw the ball regardless of what you see in coverage because "that's the throw Kirk would take vs that coverage based off film" being on the scout team is about making the 1st string defense ready to play the other team, not improve you overall. It's not even just crock talking about it...past players have said the same thing.

At this point what's he gonna learn? explain to me please... He doesn't get any 1st string reps or get to run SF's actual offense...outside of any packages they have in place for Trey (which has been nothing so far). He get no live reps where he has to digest coverage and make the right reads.

I mean what do you expect the coaching staff to say? Nah he's just picking his nose and pretending to be this weeks QB? Of course they're gonna paint it as some great developmental tool and he's killing it being someone else this week. Kyle even said he knows the playbook BUT he's lacking reps running the offense well no s**t.

Hey great Job Trey, you're helping the defense get prepared for this weeks opponent, let's see how it goes pretending to be Burrow.

Stopped reading at its not rocket science.

You are using Crockys opinion to push YOUR narrative. You have pushed this narrative all season, we get it you don't believe QBs can learn much by sitting despite QBs who have sat telling you how much it helped and despite some of the brightest coaching minds who had also believed in sitting a QB until they are deemed ready.

Sorry not sorry that I trust Kyle over some webzone narratives.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I hear what you are saying. I just dont agree. Lance's biggest issue is his lack of experience. So redshirting him (which provides him with ZERO experience), and then saying "it would be unacceptable if he isnt ready next year" are contradictory thoughts. I totally understand the reasoning to stick with Jimmy, but doing so doesnt help Lance out in the long run. Playing would have. I personally would have made Lance the starter after the bye, but I know that wasnt realistic for Kyle.

If Lance stinks it up next season, then Kyle should be on the hotseat....I agree. But for me, he would be on the hotseat because he decided to ignore 2021 in the sense of preparing his QBotF to be ready for 2022. If Lance is horrible in 2023, I will be on board with getting rid of Kyle and Lynch.

Thank you!

People don't want him to play because lack of reps, but the only way he's gonna get better is with reps...at some point fans gotta deal with that dilemma in their head and understand there's a process to all of it. Instant gratification can't be a thing here. Sorry fans.

IMO this was the year to do just that...look at all the horrible teams in the NFC. We got a bunch of .500 and sub .500 teams fighting for a playoff spot right now. We could still be in the hunt for a playoff spot AND Lance would be getting those vastly important reps. SF could still be running the ball a ton...probably even more with Lance. NOW we're gonna go into 2022 with a kid that hasn't played legit football in 2 years and spent a whole season on the scout team AND fans will think he's mahomes/Rogers/Brady just cause lol. So dumb

Assuming next season starts on 9/1/22 (which it probably wont), Lance will have played 2 games in 1,013 days. One thousand and thirteen days. Two games.

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous. I will never claim to know more about football than Kyle Shanahan, but I will question how anyone could logically get better at anything if they have done it twice in roughly 3 calendar years.

There really is no right or wrong way to address when to start your rookie QB. They were probably right to start the season with Jimmy. After that losing streak it looked like the team was out of it and it was time to let Lance play. Then they started running the ball and winning. Now Kyle is locked bak in with Jimmy unless they lose the next 2 games and fall out of the playoff picture. No matter when Trey takes over there's a good possibility that he'll struggle since many rookies do. I hate to start next season with a QB that will struggle and possibly cost us a couple of games but that looks like what's going to happen.