Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Considering that we only lost by 1 score, a lot of things cost us the game and Jimmy's awful interceptions and misses certainly didn't help.

That, and playing 3rd string CBs, backup LBs, and missing our co-best offensive weapon (Deebo).

Even more reason for our top end QB to step up and show us why he's a top 5 paid player this yr...no?

I am torn between two ideas on why Lance is not playing, and both may be a part of it.

One, Lance is just not ready yet to take over. It would blunt his confidence to put him into a situation for which he is not ready. None of us really know what Lance looks like in practice sessions so I will go with Kyle's judgment for now - Lance isn't currently capable of doing any better than Jimmy.

Two, given the above reason, Kyle hopes that Jimmy will play well enough to bring a large draft reward in a trade deal.

That's fair.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
Holy smokes a lot of content on this page. Gonna take me all day to read.

My official stance is this: I'd rather watch Trey suck than Jimmy. I'd rather watch (potentially) Trey ball out than Jimmy at his best. We have 5 games left (potentially more) from Jimmy and I think that's a weird feeling that's starting to sink in for most fans. It's almost over. Jimmy G era is almost over. We don't owe him anymore at this point. What if the offense explodes under Trey? Even if it doesn't, most fans will understand the move and be patient.

Most fans will not forgive Shanalynch for letting Jimmy finish the season for a potential 4th rounder, 3rd at best. We'd rather see our future out there. If we had 10 wins, sure keep playing Jimmy. But we do not. The 6-6 record really solidifies this for me.

Honestly at this point, just play Jimmy the rest of the year. They made it through 13 weeks and that was clearly the game plan. Lance should have gotten all those reps in camp if they really wanted him ready for this yr. It's tough just getting tossed out there after spending 6 months of not getting those 1st team reps and spending most of the time being a scout QB.

Jimmy is good enough to win games when everything else is clicking...no sense in changing it at this point. They made their bed there hopefully they can rebound this week.

That's all well and good, but I believe in that "it" factor. What I would look for is this during the last 5 games: can he overcome adversity, can he keep the chains moving, how does he respond to throwing a pick or fumbling? etc etc. I'm not looking for Trey to go 5-0. I was just about to say Minshew went out there and lit it up for the Eagles, then I realized it was against the Jets and he's now been in the league for a few years. My point is if you have that "it" factor, you can still make it work with limited reps.

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I hear what you are saying. I just dont agree. Lance's biggest issue is his lack of experience. So redshirting him (which provides him with ZERO experience), and then saying "it would be unacceptable if he isnt ready next year" are contradictory thoughts. I totally understand the reasoning to stick with Jimmy, but doing so doesnt help Lance out in the long run. Playing would have. I personally would have made Lance the starter after the bye, but I know that wasnt realistic for Kyle.

If Lance stinks it up next season, then Kyle should be on the hotseat....I agree. But for me, he would be on the hotseat because he decided to ignore 2021 in the sense of preparing his QBotF to be ready for 2022. If Lance is horrible in 2023, I will be on board with getting rid of Kyle and Lynch.

Thank you!

People don't want him to play because lack of reps, but the only way he's gonna get better is with reps...at some point fans gotta deal with that dilemma in their head and understand there's a process to all of it. Instant gratification can't be a thing here. Sorry fans.

IMO this was the year to do just that...look at all the horrible teams in the NFC. We got a bunch of .500 and sub .500 teams fighting for a playoff spot right now. We could still be in the hunt for a playoff spot AND Lance would be getting those vastly important reps. SF could still be running the ball a ton...probably even more with Lance. NOW we're gonna go into 2022 with a kid that hasn't played legit football in 2 years and spent a whole season on the scout team AND fans will think he's mahomes/Rogers/Brady just cause lol. So dumb

Assuming next season starts on 9/1/22 (which it probably wont), Lance will have played 2 games in 1,013 days. One thousand and thirteen days. Two games.

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous. I will never claim to know more about football than Kyle Shanahan, but I will question how anyone could logically get better at anything if they have done it twice in roughly 3 calendar years.

Agreed. That's why you don't take a project of this magnitude at 3, and you especially don't trade what we did for the opportunity.
Trey obviously isn't ready and needs experience. That would be fine if he had a few years of college experience but he doesn't. Like you said, 2 games in over 3 years is unacceptable. That's why I thought it was idiotic for a team like the 49ers to do that. We don't have the luxury of throwing a puppy like this on the mix with a competitive roster
No matter how you cut it, it's on Kyle and Lynch.

That's BS. You can still take him at 3, even if he's a project, but only if you have a plan for him. At first it seemed like Kyle did have a plan, but now not so much. A good deal of his appeal was also that he would be on a rookie deal, freeing up $ to go elsewhere, but now 1 year of that is gone.

Yeah his development is just gonna take a little longer...sounds like ownership and the coaching staff all agreed to this. It's the reason Jimmy is still on the team. Fans seem unwilling to accept that but it's just the truth of it.

If Lance turns into a great FQB in a couple years, no one will care about the developmental process or how long it took. Until then we can all b***h about it

Originally posted by Silky:
That's all well and good, but I believe in that "it" factor. What I would look for is this during the last 5 games: can he overcome adversity, can he keep the chains moving, how does he respond to throwing a pick or fumbling? etc etc. I'm not looking for Trey to go 5-0. I was just about to say Minshew went out there and lit it up for the Eagles, then I realized it was against the Jets and he's now been in the league for a few years. My point is if you have that "it" factor, you can still make it work with limited reps.

Minshew has 21 starts under his belt. He really has no stress at this point in his career. I'm sure he wants to be a starter but he's not gonna get ridiculed if he plays bad either. He's playing with house money.

I mean if they end up playing him fine, reps are what he needs...I think they want him to be in a ideal situation to play and that would encompass getting all those valuable TC reps. Those reps are vastly more important then what he's been getting in practice.

As far as the "it" factor...I get that. I think he does have that but I just don't see Kyle going that route.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
That's all well and good, but I believe in that "it" factor. What I would look for is this during the last 5 games: can he overcome adversity, can he keep the chains moving, how does he respond to throwing a pick or fumbling? etc etc. I'm not looking for Trey to go 5-0. I was just about to say Minshew went out there and lit it up for the Eagles, then I realized it was against the Jets and he's now been in the league for a few years. My point is if you have that "it" factor, you can still make it work with limited reps.

Minshew has 21 starts under his belt. He really has no stress at this point in his career. I'm sure he wants to be a starter but he's not gonna get ridiculed if he plays bad either. He's playing with house money.

I mean if they end up playing him fine, reps are what he needs...I think they want him to be in a ideal situation to play and that would encompass getting all those valuable TC reps. Those reps are vastly more important then what he's been getting in practice.

As far as the "it" factor...I get that. I think he does have that but I just don't see Kyle going that route.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Dalton get most of the first team reps in TC for the Bears? Then he got hurt or whatever, Fields comes in, takes some lumps, then strung together a few awesome performances. I agree that first team reps are important, but they're not a deal-breaker...to me at least.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
No, I am not sure what is the best route for Lance because there are examples of guys developing on the bench and being successful in their first year as starters and others who start immediately and succeed and others who start slow and then become good down the road.

I just don't think we need to prepare ourselves for him to do poorly in 2022 because he didn't start most of the games this year.

I don't expect him to be great but functional and a guy who can offer the team a chance to win more games than they lose seems reasonable.

Edit: also, I can live with ehatever happens, it is just a game and I have lived through the past 20nyears of this team just fine.

That's fine...I'm also not saying he's gonna play poorly.

I'm saying, I have already allowed myself to be good with the ups and downs of a 21 yr old rookie who will becoming into the NFL as a starter with like 330 career passing attempts under his belt. He should be allowed a little grace and understanding from the fan base that hey we get it, you're a super young inexperienced QB but we understand the juice will be worth the squeeze if we give it enough time. All the traits are there for a top end QB, but that s**t doesn't just happen by sitting for a year...it takes time, reps and mistakes.

We will see. This team is built on running the ball either way. That's how SF wins football games

Originally posted by Silky:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Dalton get most of the first team reps in TC for the Bears? Then he got hurt or whatever, Fields comes in, takes some lumps, then strung together a few awesome performances. I agree that first team reps are important, but they're not a deal-breaker...to me at least.

Fields and Dalton both got 1st string reps in TC. Fields also had twice as many passing attempts as Lance coming into the NFL.

Originally posted by Goatie:
Intelligent post. You have the same view as me re Lance. He has potential but he is far from a proven starter. Some here almost believe he is already to walk into the hall of fame.

I would be the happiest fan if he realised his potential and became the next Young etc. But he has to prove himself. So far he has not won a game yet. He has not finished a game or a quarter with better then a 52% pass completion rate.

If he starts next year he is not immune from making a bunch of rookie mistakes and drawing a ton of hate from the fanbase because he did not live up to expectations.

He needs time to develop and timing to insert him in to the main game so he is firing on all cylinders when he hits the ground. It is not the time for that right now.

Lol who here said this? Or you just making stuff up?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Dalton get most of the first team reps in TC for the Bears? Then he got hurt or whatever, Fields comes in, takes some lumps, then strung together a few awesome performances. I agree that first team reps are important, but they're not a deal-breaker...to me at least.

Fields and Dalton both got 1st string reps in TC. Fields also had twice as many passing attempts as Lance coming into the NFL.

Potato tomato. I guess i'm frustrated because we're 6-6 and Jimmy has a rookie stat line. If I see Jimmy throw another pick, I will get angry and throw the remote through my TV. Which will then prompt me to trash it because Bestbuy has a sweet deal on a 72" for $900 right now. I really want to buy it. If I see Trey throw a pick, at least he is working through some lumps and getting valuable experience.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Goatie:
Intelligent post. You have the same view as me re Lance. He has potential but he is far from a proven starter. Some here almost believe he is already to walk into the hall of fame.

I would be the happiest fan if he realised his potential and became the next Young etc. But he has to prove himself. So far he has not won a game yet. He has not finished a game or a quarter with better then a 52% pass completion rate.

If he starts next year he is not immune from making a bunch of rookie mistakes and drawing a ton of hate from the fanbase because he did not live up to expectations.

He needs time to develop and timing to insert him in to the main game so he is firing on all cylinders when he hits the ground. It is not the time for that right now.

Lol who here said this? Or you just making stuff up?

They're making stuff up again because it's easier to attack a position someone doesn't hold.

Originally posted by Silky:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Dalton get most of the first team reps in TC for the Bears? Then he got hurt or whatever, Fields comes in, takes some lumps, then strung together a few awesome performances. I agree that first team reps are important, but they're not a deal-breaker...to me at least.

Fields and Dalton both got 1st string reps in TC. Fields also had twice as many passing attempts as Lance coming into the NFL.

Potato tomato. I guess i'm frustrated because we're 6-6 and Jimmy has a rookie stat line. If I see Jimmy throw another pick, I will get angry and throw the remote through my TV. Which will then prompt me to trash it because Bestbuy has a sweet deal on a 72" for $900 right now. I really want to buy it. If I see Trey throw a pick, at least he is working through some lumps and getting valuable experience.

I'd jump on that Bestbuy deal, Silky.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

I hear what you are saying. I just dont agree. Lance's biggest issue is his lack of experience. So redshirting him (which provides him with ZERO experience), and then saying "it would be unacceptable if he isnt ready next year" are contradictory thoughts. I totally understand the reasoning to stick with Jimmy, but doing so doesnt help Lance out in the long run. Playing would have. I personally would have made Lance the starter after the bye, but I know that wasnt realistic for Kyle.

If Lance stinks it up next season, then Kyle should be on the hotseat....I agree. But for me, he would be on the hotseat because he decided to ignore 2021 in the sense of preparing his QBotF to be ready for 2022. If Lance is horrible in 2023, I will be on board with getting rid of Kyle and Lynch.

Thank you!

People don't want him to play because lack of reps, but the only way he's gonna get better is with reps...at some point fans gotta deal with that dilemma in their head and understand there's a process to all of it. Instant gratification can't be a thing here. Sorry fans.

IMO this was the year to do just that...look at all the horrible teams in the NFC. We got a bunch of .500 and sub .500 teams fighting for a playoff spot right now. We could still be in the hunt for a playoff spot AND Lance would be getting those vastly important reps. SF could still be running the ball a ton...probably even more with Lance. NOW we're gonna go into 2022 with a kid that hasn't played legit football in 2 years and spent a whole season on the scout team AND fans will think he's mahomes/Rogers/Brady just cause lol. So dumb

Assuming next season starts on 9/1/22 (which it probably wont), Lance will have played 2 games in 1,013 days. One thousand and thirteen days. Two games.

I am sorry, but that is ridiculous. I will never claim to know more about football than Kyle Shanahan, but I will question how anyone could logically get better at anything if they have done it twice in roughly 3 calendar years.

Agreed. That's why you don't take a project of this magnitude at 3, and you especially don't trade what we did for the opportunity.
Trey obviously isn't ready and needs experience. That would be fine if he had a few years of college experience but he doesn't. Like you said, 2 games in over 3 years is unacceptable. That's why I thought it was idiotic for a team like the 49ers to do that. We don't have the luxury of throwing a puppy like this on the mix with a competitive roster
No matter how you cut it, it's on Kyle and Lynch.

That's BS. You can still take him at 3, even if he's a project, but only if you have a plan for him. At first it seemed like Kyle did have a plan, but now not so much. A good deal of his appeal was also that he would be on a rookie deal, freeing up $ to go elsewhere, but now 1 year of that is gone.

Yeah his development is just gonna take a little longer...sounds like ownership and the coaching staff all agreed to this. It's the reason Jimmy is still on the team. Fans seem unwilling to accept that but it's just the truth of it.

If Lance turns into a great FQB in a couple years, no one will care about the developmental process or how long it took. Until then we can all b***h about it

What are fans unwilling to accept?

No fan in any sport accepts 5 losing seasons out of 5. Fans are going to grumble about all of the losing under Shanahan.

Fans will accept and support Trey like they have Jimmy IMO. It is what we do for the most part.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Dalton get most of the first team reps in TC for the Bears? Then he got hurt or whatever, Fields comes in, takes some lumps, then strung together a few awesome performances. I agree that first team reps are important, but they're not a deal-breaker...to me at least.

Fields and Dalton both got 1st string reps in TC. Fields also had twice as many passing attempts as Lance coming into the NFL.

Oh just stop with the excuses. If Trey had the first team reps he'd still be where he is. Getting first team reps doesn't get him up to speed in one training camp. This is a 2 or 3 year project. You've aleeady come up with some excuses next year saying he won't look great. That's already two years of his 5 year rookie contract.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:
Stopped reading at its not rocket science.

You are using Crockys opinion to push YOUR narrative. You have pushed this narrative all season, we get it you don't believe QBs can learn much by sitting despite QBs who have sat telling you how much it helped and despite some of the brightest coaching minds who had also believed in sitting a QB until they are deemed ready.

Sorry not sorry that I trust Kyle over some webzone narratives.

I'm using Crocky's experience playing scout team in the NFL. That is NOT an opinion it's a damn fact.

His experience is as a corner back not a quarterback. And just because his opinion that is based on his experience fits YOUR narrative does not mean it is gospel or factual. Again, others like Patrick Mahomes have pointed out that in their experience it was incredibly helpful.

Every player is different, what works for one may not work for another.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Silky:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Dalton get most of the first team reps in TC for the Bears? Then he got hurt or whatever, Fields comes in, takes some lumps, then strung together a few awesome performances. I agree that first team reps are important, but they're not a deal-breaker...to me at least.

Fields and Dalton both got 1st string reps in TC. Fields also had twice as many passing attempts as Lance coming into the NFL.

Oh just stop with the excuses. If Trey had the first team reps he'd still be where he is. Getting first team reps doesn't get him up to speed in one training camp. This is a 2 or 3 year project. You've aleeady come up with some excuses next year saying he won't look great. That's already two years of his 5 year rookie contract.

There's literally no way of knowing that to be true.