Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 49ers81:
Boy, I hardly know where to start, but I'll give it a go.
1. Jimmy starting fine, wanted him to take a pay cut. Talked about other options
It is your contention that you were okay with Jimmy starting week 1, but apparently, not week 2 or 3 or after the bye or after the first Cardinal's game or after the loss to Green Bay or when the moon was in the 7th house and Jupiter aligned with Mars. You have been beating that horse all year. Again, missing the point that Lance was NEVER going to start this year barring an injury to Jimmy or a complete an utter collapse by the team. The idea that he might start was entirely a media invention and was total BS. If you bought into that you were just fooling yourself. He was never going to beat Jimmy out in camp and Shanahan would have had a riot on his hands if he gave the team to an inexperienced rookie over a well liked vet who had recently taken the team to the Super Bowl unless the kid absolutely proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was a superior player and that simply wasn't going to happen under the circumstances that existed.
And as for wanting Jimmy to take a pay cut, just how did you envision that working out. Did you think he would come in and say, "Oh, gosh, you traded up to draft a rookie to take my place.You must be really unhappy with my play. Let me call my agent and we'll work out a deal to give you some your money back so you can sign some more players to help Lance out". Give me your address and I'll send you airfare for a ticket back to reality, And what were the other options I forget, trading him in spite of the fact that he had a no trade clause this year and very little incentive to move. "Oh, gosh, the team moved up to draft a rookie to take my place. I better ask for a trade so I can show what a quitter I am and how I am too insecure to believe that I can beat out a rookie QB with less than 318 pass attempts in his college career and hardly more than two seasons of playing time in a Division II school". Yeah, that would have had other teams lining up for his services I bet
Once again you don't read very well and try to argue about something else....not sure how I can make it any more clearer for you?
1. I said once we were set at drafting a QB, I was fine with Jimmy as the starter. I didn't want to trade him...there's receipts of that and go look at my mock off-season/drafts. I said I THOUGHT that after the bye DEPENDING on how Jimmy and the team were doing, that would be a good transition point for the QBs. Once we started losing and Jimmy was playing poorly, everyone had their instant reactions to the QB situation.
He was never given the opportunity to beat out Jimmy in camp. He never got snaps with the starters...he was playing with backups. Kyle said it wasn't a competition. Saying he would have a riot if he in fact played the better QB is stupid and shows your bias. Players just want the best players playing...if that's Jimmy W1 so be it.
I would envision a pay cut after the draft as simple as saying...we're either gonna cut you or rip up your contract. We will give you say $15M fully GTD to play this year (toss in incentives to get more cash back) BUT you will then be a FA in 2022. There wasn't a single team that was gonna pay Jimmy that kind of cash. NOT ONE. He would still get to play on a good team and rebuild his stock for FA in 2022. He would have been the starter all the same. That should be his plan from the business side. Make the team around him BETTER, so he in fact can look better and make MORE money in 2022. What the f**k to do you think he's gonna get in 2022? Sure as s**t isn't gonna be $20+ million. He doesn't have a trade clause in 2022 and SF can ship him to Siberia aka the Texans if they so choose now. It would have given him more control of his future.
But instead we're stuck with joe blow playing CB, Tom Compton at RT, a collection of no names rushing from the other side of Bosa, and a WR corp that legit has to give Travis Benjamin/Sherfield snaps. All because we thought our amazing QB would play at a level to mask that and take us to a SB lol.
Originally posted by 49ers81:
2. Best way for a rookie QB to develop is playing (getting all reps since TC). This has been my debate.
I may be missing something here but if a rookie QB is getting all of the reps from training camp on doesn't that in fact make him the starter? I believe that was an issue we tackled in point 1
This is where you totally miss the point of my debate...I'm talking in general, how you develop a QB. IMO the best way for him to improve is to play football. Not hold a clipboard for a year...if there's anything Lance needs it's legit reps. That has been my debate as far as developing goes. It's more a philosophy on that, not that he HAD to start and get all the reps...the way they went about it means he will in fact TAKE LONGER to develop, that's their approach and fans need to be prepared for a rookie QB in 2022, not a second year starter. I think it was a bad way to do it, but I accepted it. EVERYONE else should accept that it will be a slow process in part because of the route they've taken. Dats it.
Originally posted by 49ers81:
3. now we're 13 weeks into it, we probably could be 6-6 with Lance Like Crock said.
Possible, sure. Probable? That is a completely unknowable and unproveable supposition, no matter what side of the argument you are on. No one, I repeat no one, knows what kind of NFL QB Lance will be at this point in time. It is all just speculation and projection mixed in with a large dose of Magical Thinking. As long as the team is in the playoff hunt I doubt that Lance ever sees the field again this year unless they happen to be blowing someone out in the fourth quarter, or are themselves being blown out with no chance of coming back. He will just have to bide his time, learn as much as he can at practice, and work hard during the off season. He may not have a lot of practical experience but he also won't have had the crap beat out of him all year like Lawrence, Wilson and Fields. I think that probably has to count for something as far as not having his confidence too badly shaken. Now he can come into camp raring to go and ready to prove what he can do.
Regardless of what you thought the team's Super Bowl chances were this year I am pretty sure that everyone in the 49ers HQ believed they had a pretty good chance to get there and they were just never going start a rookie under those circumstances. As Woolick has pointed out, Kyle is staring down the barrel of four losing seasons out of five. I think he gets a pass on the first two years because the team was rebuilding which paid off with Super Bowl run in the third, and then the s**t storm of 2020. The problem he has this year is that the team had high expectations, valid or not, but looked kind of lost and out of synch for the first third of the season and I think that can justifiably be laid at Kyle's doorstep. It just looked like he never really had them ready to play,and that's the kind of thing that can get you fired if you're not careful.
So was thinking SF was gonna go to the SB with this roster and Jimmy in 2021...possible sure, any team can say that before the season starts. That was speculation just as much as what you're saying IMO. People thought we could "run it back" with basically the same roster from 2020, I disagreed. Where did they upgrade? Alex Mack and what else? They didn't even draft for help in 2021 overall. We got our first 4 picks basically missing their first yr in the league AND Kyle said that was the plan lol WTF?
Great he didn't take his lumps this year like other rookie QBs, doesn't mean that he just won't take his lumps all the same in 2022. That's MY POINT.
Once Kyle and ownership went all in on a QB, his development NEEDED to take more precedence then it has, seems like this is where we disagree. End of the day the ownership is the one who fires the HC, not the fans. IF Jed and Co. are all in agreement with Lance and taking it slow, well that's all that matters. Not what any of us say in a fan forum page.
Do you even listen to yourself when you type this stuff? You say that I am missing the point and that you are just "debating" the best way to develop a young QB. But, again, your answer to that question is, and I quote, "
Best way for a rookie QB to develop is playing (getting all reps since TC). This has been my debate.". Now you can try and spin that with any sort of BS that you like but if your argument is that the way to develop a QB is to give him all the reps since training camp and let him play then you are advocating for him to be the starter since, by definition, that is what starters do.
As to your Vito Corleone solution to Jimmy's contract, take a pay cut or we'll kill you (figuratively speaking), well that's just too ridiculous to even respond to. If you want people to take your posts seriously you should at least make the effort to try and ground them in some kind of reality. Just saying.
