Dallas Cowboys QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, I'm obviously not communicating this correctly. For that I do apologize.
I'm meaning, you have plays designed to go to someone or target a route vs certain looks. For example, the slant/flat vs C-1 man Lurk, the throw is to the flat route. The outside receiver has to see it, understand it and run his slant to interfere with the flat receiver's man. If that play is vs zone, it's a key read. If it's 2 man, it's the opposite C-1(how most coaches do it).

In this case, Deebo is #1. The only way you don't throw that is if he's doubled.
Think of the tight sideline catch that Aiyuk made vs ARI that a lot people, and rightfully so, oooed and ahhhhed about Trey over. It was a great throw. Same situation though. press-man on the outside. You throw your receiver open. You don't hesitate, you throw to a spot. That ball HAS to be out before the receiver turns around.

The ball his Deebo in the chest. C'mon. If that's Lance, y'all are screaming about Deebo needing to hold on to the ball.

QB's do this all the time. Russ does it, Brady does it, Rodgers does it. They see press-man they know who they're going to before the ball is snapped and it's going to be a timing throw.

Ok, since you cropped everything out of context...

I don't remember saying hit deebo in the chest because I wasn't referring to actually hitting him in the chest I was referring to ball location in regards to a spot throw.

But sure, Afrikan, you got me.....

A spot throw.... Okay.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I'd love to bring back Mullens.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by rorrim:
Trey Lance deep throw warmups to Brandon Aiyuk and Jauan Jennings, 49ers-Falcons:

He's pretty close to midfield, and he's tossing these passes that look to me like at least 40+ yards - to the endzone, with just flicking his wrists. I don't seem him having a big windup or leaning into the passes, it's all arm.

I don't know about the bold. He drops the ball lower than his waist on the wind up and does javelin it when he's about to start forward. It doesn't look like it because he has so much power that he does all that motion very fast.

Still though, I have a pet peeve when QBs drop the ball so low on the load. Very bad habit that is impossible to shake and is detrimental in a crowded pocket.

Rodgers changing his load was much easier to do because he literally went from the most difficult kind to throw with power with that Tedford high ball placement to a lower ball placement.

I see your point about him dropping the ball below his waist. Great points. Just watched a video of Tom Brady's mechanics and he does keep his arm *way* above his waist while Trey's dropping the ball below the waist. He definitely has to clean up that and not get into any bad mechanics. I rewatched the Trey AZ game again, and what I found out was that he generally (not always) did keep his load above the waist. All I can say is that maybe he was doing the bad mechanics because he wasn't paying attention to it during warm ups. But yeah, I can see it being a problem in the pocket, and Tom's mechanics are indeed as you said - above the waist. I hope he addresses that over the offseason.

Lots of QBs will drop the ball below their waist on deep throws. Jimmy does the same thing.

Well Trey's arm is so strong, I'm thinking he doesn't need to load up the same way as other QB's with lesser arms. He gets the ball out plenty quick though, and it's probably milliseconds behind Jimmy. Nothing like Kaepernicks elongated baseball load up though, thank god for that.

I do think Trey tightens it up during a game. Brady is a little different. He starts with the ball at his belly button keeping his elbow angle always at 90 degrees. His elbow never deviates from that angle. It is the ideal angle to take pressure off the shoulder and gives a natural rotation.

Rodgers…sheesh. Insane. He closes his elbow angle just before whipping it forward. That's why he looks like he's always throwing darts but with major velocity. Just all around connection between arm angle and lower body.

I never really paid attention to QB throwing mechanics until I saw Colin's throwing motion which looked so bad. I think Trey still has a way to go even just with his Arm Mechanics - and then on top of that - *everything else* that he's developing to run Kyle's offense. Footwork, eye fakes, no-look throws you name it, the guy has a lot on his plate. If you throw this guy in there and start him, I think it would be way too much that it would choke his ability really learn and progress.

Having him sit back and really learn everything - even arm mechanics - in a slow and measured way, I think is the best way to learn. It should be relaxed without pressure. It's tough to learn, and I mean really learn, appreciate not only the *how* of it, but also go into the *why* of it when you are under such pressure. I personally think the *why* is much more valuable than the How, because when things change up on *how* you do things, you can go back to the Why of it and adjust.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Ok, I'm obviously not communicating this correctly. For that I do apologize.
I'm meaning, you have plays designed to go to someone or target a route vs certain looks. For example, the slant/flat vs C-1 man Lurk, the throw is to the flat route. The outside receiver has to see it, understand it and run his slant to interfere with the flat receiver's man. If that play is vs zone, it's a key read. If it's 2 man, it's the opposite C-1(how most coaches do it).

In this case, Deebo is #1. The only way you don't throw that is if he's doubled.
Think of the tight sideline catch that Aiyuk made vs ARI that a lot people, and rightfully so, oooed and ahhhhed about Trey over. It was a great throw. Same situation though. press-man on the outside. You throw your receiver open. You don't hesitate, you throw to a spot. That ball HAS to be out before the receiver turns around.

The ball his Deebo in the chest. C'mon. If that's Lance, y'all are screaming about Deebo needing to hold on to the ball.

QB's do this all the time. Russ does it, Brady does it, Rodgers does it. They see press-man they know who they're going to before the ball is snapped and it's going to be a timing throw.

Ok, since you cropped everything out of context...

I don't remember saying hit deebo in the chest because I wasn't referring to actually hitting him in the chest I was referring to ball location in regards to a spot throw.

But sure, Afrikan, you got me.....

Everybody's going to make mistakes, specially if you are human. I wouldn't stress too much about it. Also if you look at the context of the conversation, I think most people understood what you were trying to say. It's like how some people approach the question "Would you rather be right than married?" Some guys would say, I'd rather be *right* but then they don't understand the consequences to that answer.

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
So MM in his latest podcast at end had an update - Lance has been doing really well practice last 3 weeks per higher up source in organization. And they felt his finger injury was lingering causing accuracy issues early on including Ari game.

Post game Warner on his own said same thing about lance.

Love to hear it. For the first time in decades we have a strong QB room with Jimmy and Trey. If Jimmy gets hurt the season is not automatically over.

Originally posted by 49er-from-Yavin-IV:

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
So MM in his latest podcast at end had an update - Lance has been doing really well practice last 3 weeks per higher up source in organization. And they felt his finger injury was lingering causing accuracy issues early on including Ari game.

Post game Warner on his own said same thing about lance.

Love to hear it. For the first time in decades we have a strong QB room with Jimmy and Trey. If Jimmy gets hurt the season is not automatically over.

That's really good news. The first glowing report we've heard in a while

Anyone listen to the most recent episode of NinerTalk (Matt Maiocco's podcast)?

He had some interesting things to say about Trey. Summary from the top of head:

- According to people in the FO Matt has talked to, Trey has been great in practice and accurate now that his finger is fully healed. His studying and preparation has been on-point.
- The 49ers brass feel very good about him taking over as the starter next season and coming in as the backup, if necessary, this season.
- He also heard from his contacts that Trey has been shredding the first team defense lately and Matt brought up that Fred Warner also said a similar thing after the game.

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
So MM in his latest podcast at end had an update - Lance has been doing really well practice last 3 weeks per higher up source in organization. And they felt his finger injury was lingering causing accuracy issues early on including Ari game.

Post game Warner on his own said same thing about lance.

Whoops, didn't see that someone had already brought MM's comments up. It's good to hear though.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Jimmy cheaper than Teddy.

Wut??

Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
So MM in his latest podcast at end had an update - Lance has been doing really well practice last 3 weeks per higher up source in organization. And they felt his finger injury was lingering causing accuracy issues early on including Ari game.

Post game Warner on his own said same thing about lance.

I wonder if his finger was any sort of factor in that game plan to run him so much.

Trey seems like a good guy while watching him on the sidelines cheering on the team, im sure he wants to be in there playing.

Like some others in this thread, I too have noticed his throwing mechanics and worry about dropping the ball so low in his throwing motion. Some think that since his velocity is so strong it won't matter but that is only when he can throw a dart and not drop the ball in over say the lb's and in front of the saftey. Opposing db coachs will break down every aspect of his game and that throwing motion is going to turn into a tell for a db. Gives them a split second to break on the ball which could be a problem for Trey. Shanahan need to work that out this offseason so he can feel comfortable with the new motion during the preseason and be ready to roll start of next year.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Jimmy cheaper than Teddy.

Wut??

DEN only picking up $3M. CAR taking care of $7M. CAR is left with a $17M dead money cap hit from Teddy's contract. In terms of what we are getting and what we will most likely need to pay, I'd rather take Jimmy over Teddy for more bang for our buck.

Originally posted by rk1642:
Trey seems like a good guy while watching him on the sidelines cheering on the team, im sure he wants to be in there playing.

Like some others in this thread, I too have noticed his throwing mechanics and worry about dropping the ball so low in his throwing motion. Some think that since his velocity is so strong it won't matter but that is only when he can throw a dart and not drop the ball in over say the lb's and in front of the saftey. Opposing db coachs will break down every aspect of his game and that throwing motion is going to turn into a tell for a db. Gives them a split second to break on the ball which could be a problem for Trey. Shanahan need to work that out this offseason so he can feel comfortable with the new motion during the preseason and be ready to roll start of next year.

But there is a loophole into this. Some QB's have so much natural strength and power, they are able to violently go through that longer motion faster. Kaepernick was not able to. He just didn't have the upper body quick twitchiness to speed it up. Lance definitely has that raw power and quick twitch. He even runs quicker than Kaepernick.

If you notice when Lance has played in a game, his throw is much quicker than that warm up highlight of him throwing end zone bombs. Seems more like he was just "chill" throwing. But I will still say that it is NOT desired from your QB to have that elongated motion. Hoping he will fine tune it, but I don't think that's possible. Maybe, he can adjust his loop on the load but his muscle memory/stabilizer muscles are pretty much set. Would be a long and awkward process to make a significant adjustment.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by rk1642:
Trey seems like a good guy while watching him on the sidelines cheering on the team, im sure he wants to be in there playing.

Like some others in this thread, I too have noticed his throwing mechanics and worry about dropping the ball so low in his throwing motion. Some think that since his velocity is so strong it won't matter but that is only when he can throw a dart and not drop the ball in over say the lb's and in front of the saftey. Opposing db coachs will break down every aspect of his game and that throwing motion is going to turn into a tell for a db. Gives them a split second to break on the ball which could be a problem for Trey. Shanahan need to work that out this offseason so he can feel comfortable with the new motion during the preseason and be ready to roll start of next year.

But there is a loophole into this. Some QB's have so much natural strength and power, they are able to violently go through that longer motion faster. Kaepernick was not able to. He just didn't have the upper body quick twitchiness to speed it up. Lance definitely has that raw power and quick twitch. He even runs quicker than Kaepernick.

If you notice when Lance has played in a game, his throw is much quicker than that warm up highlight of him throwing end zone bombs. Seems more like he was just "chill" throwing. But I will still say that it is NOT desired from your QB to have that elongated motion. Hoping he will fine tune it, but I don't think that's possible. Maybe, he can adjust his loop on the load but his muscle memory/stabilizer muscles are pretty much set. Would be a long and awkward process to make a significant adjustment.

If he want's to have the same kind of career that Tom Brady had, he'll do the things and change the things he needs to change to be the best QB he can be. My hope is that he wants to be a champion and leave no stones unturned.

As for his throwing mechanics, they are important, but so is reading defenses and calling audibles etc... In other words, I don't know if I'd put it at the number one priority right now. I think his throwing mechanics - right now - are alright (as of the AZ game) such that he can relegate that to the offseason. He needs to pick up the protections, the defensive reads, and audible adjustments. Love the stories coming from the interviews and podcasts about Trey torching the 7th ranked pass defense regularly in practice.